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Old
09-07-2009, 11:06 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Staal may have the edge in Defensive awareness last season, i'll agree. But Rozy was coming off a big surgery, and I doubt Staal will contribute a 13 goal season in the near future.

Any defender gets caught at the blueline. Girardi, Kalinen had it happen all the time. Staal was the exception because he played a very defense first style.


As for Z, you have to look at it in term of cost-efficiency. We would have had him for 1 year at 3.9 million. Instead we locked up Kotalik AND Prospal for the same price it would have cost us to keep Zherdev. I would take Z over one of those two, but not both.

I'm not arguing that Rosival isn't a competent defender, he is definitely capable of doing his job, but whether he was caught flat-footed or already skating around there is no denying the fact that they are defintely slow.

IMO what seperates a good defender (Rosival) from a great defender (Staal) was even when Staal rarely caught pinching a great defender would, IMO, have the wearwithall to be able to get back with a combination of intelligence and speed.

I was just salivating over the fact that Zherdev could've been setting up Gabby with some sick passes that Gomez wasn't capable of handling, Gabby with his soft hands would pot it, I know that he was asking for so much, and the arbitrator didn't help our case much but I think I agree with you, I'd rather have Z over one, but it would be real hard to convince me over both of them.

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09-07-2009, 11:31 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
You can throw most of what they did last year out the window...
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You can BANK on Wade Redden having a better season this year under Torts.
No, no you can't.

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Look at what Torts and Sather did to the roster... lol
Yes, look what they did: removed a whole bunch of question marks and replaced them with a whole new bunch of question marks.

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Theres plenty to be pumped about....
And there'll be plenty to complain about in December and January.

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Old
09-07-2009, 11:48 PM
  #28
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Two words: Henrik Lundqvist.

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09-07-2009, 11:56 PM
  #29
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Redden played great under Torts

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Old
09-08-2009, 12:03 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Redden played great under Torts
Slightly better than the absolutely terrible level he'd been playing at before Johnny Cakes is hardly great, or even good. Great would imply that he contributed even a smidgen offensively, which he didn't. Great would imply that he was a monster on defense. He wasn't.

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09-08-2009, 12:33 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Slightly better than the absolutely terrible level he'd been playing at before Johnny Cakes is hardly great, or even good. Great would imply that he contributed even a smidgen offensively, which he didn't. Great would imply that he was a monster on defense. He wasn't.
Look past the fact that you hate him and his contract.

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Old
09-08-2009, 12:33 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I dont think Prucha, Nylander, and Straka are that much of a better supporting cast than Drury, Prospal, Kotalik.
Nylander was better than Drury,
(Straka + Prucha)) >( Prospal + Kotalik) That is because Starka was so good.

About your other statement where you say (Prospal + Kotalik ) > Zherdev, I'm not so sure. Two players are not always beter than one. Unlike Zherdev neither Kotalik or Prospal will ever get better. Since this team to everyone consensus ain't goint anywhere this seasdon, I'd rather watch a "heartless" talent. I do not mean Prospal or Kotalik, but this league is full of hard working mediocrity already. Hopefully Lisin will show up...

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09-08-2009, 12:38 AM
  #33
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Why are ppl so sure Zherdev will get better? Cause he has the tools? I'd probably take Kotalik's size and skill package over Zherdevs even.

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Old
09-08-2009, 02:56 AM
  #34
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Hey guys. I don't mean to rain on any parades, but i seriously think comparing anything to last season's goal production is, while fun, misguided. I do agree with popular thought that Sather's moves on paper seem incredibly lateral - but will hardly be the deciding factor in our success or failure this year.

Goal production is merely a symptom. I think most of us would agree that last season was very hard to watch because the team got outmuscled, outworked, outpassioned, and "outfunned" (before Torts). All of us knew the only way we had any chance to go far was if Hank came up with 16 miracles.

Personally, I don't care how many goals we score. Can we play with fire? Will players be held accountable? Will we set the physical tone game after game? Outwork oppenents? Will Youth get the same treatment as Vets? Will will continue to build the young core? If these things come to pass, the season will be an astounding success as far as im concerned.

Remember - in 94, we started off rocky. There were tons of questions, lots of turn over, a losing streak, and we had finished 93 totally out of the POs. And to top it all off, the retired Denis Potvan was on the cover of the post as a possible signing (and people hate Brashear...)

We went into that season by adding youth in Karpovtsev, Zubov, Kovy, Amonte, Weight (before last two were traded for final pieces). But the biggest changes were the coach, the culture, and the style of play. Am I saying this is our year now? No, no way. I don't believe it is. We have no version of our Leetch or Messier yet...

But like 94, this current roster has a ton of question marks, will have a lot of youth in key roles and a coach who isn't afraid of figuring it out.

Personally, I hope the first half of the season is tough and can be used as a growing, bonding experience. And that after the olympic break, the improved conditioning kicks in and allows the team to peak just when it begins to matter. And, as long as Hank stays healthy - a surprising run to the conference finals at best, maybe in the cards.

But honestly, the changes in culture, style of play and building that youthful core is the only goal worth counting this year. I could care less if we score a few more goals against the Florida Panthers or the Senators this year. I just don't.

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Old
09-08-2009, 08:25 AM
  #35
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I like most Ranger fans don't really know what to expect this year. There seriously are a lot of question marks. The main ones being Gaboriks health, Dubinsky as our first line center (I think he will do fine), our defenseman or lack of experienced ones at the moment, need of a power play QB, our penalty kill w/o Betts and Sjostrom, and overall chemistry with all these new faces coming in.
The way I look at it, because of all these question marks not being answered at this moment, I don't think we compare to the skill, depth and toughness of the Bruins, Flyers, Caps, and Pens. I see them finishing top 4 unless the caps and flyers goaltending totally suck. Then I think Devils make the playoffs as they always do with Brodeur as will the Canes b/c they have practically the same team that went to the conference finals last year but with better D. So that leaves the Rangers competing for the last two spots with the remaining teams. I think Buffalo, and Montreal (pending all their new faces as well) are the stronger teams to make that push.
I just really hope all the question marks the Rangers have don't kill us and make for a long season. I'm going to be optimistic and hope for anywhere between an 5th-8th place finish. Then anything can happen, but I don't see us beating those top 4. With Lundqvist in net there is always hope but as of right now there are just too many things that can go wrong. I'm still a big believer that the downturn of the Rangers was not signing Nylander and signing both Gomez and Drury. The chemistry we had with that first line was insane. By adding just Drury to our 2nd line (who beat us with that goal with 7 seconds left the year prior) we could have done some serious damage that next season. Now this season feels like back to the drawing board with a whole new set of plans and no identity and the hope of some sort of chemistry between our new players. Maybe it will all work out though and it could be a very fun season!

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Old
09-08-2009, 09:45 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Why are ppl so sure Zherdev will get better? Cause he has the tools? I'd probably take Kotalik's size and skill package over Zherdevs even.
Z is 24. The Forward career riches its climax at 28-30. Kotalik is no bigger and less skilful already

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Old
09-08-2009, 10:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I agree with inferno that we are a 6-10 team. Maybe even 4-10, but I wont be able to go that far until I've seen this team play the first 10 games of the season against a few teams (especially a team like the Penguins who they open up against, right?)

This team IMO, will make the playoffs. We added a legitimate scorer to a team that made the playoffs last season in 7 slot and almost knocked out washington in the 1st round. The one glaring hole in that playoff series, as it was all season, was the inability to score goals, especially on the PP. Adding guys like Gaborik and Kotalik to that PP will only make this team that much better. And yes we lost Betts and Sjostrom, but I highly doubt our PK will suffer that greatly because we still have guys like Cally, Drury, and most importantly, Lundqvist.

Yes the worst we can do IMO, is 10th and not a spot lower. But I also highly doubt we miss the playoffs.

thats like me saying we will finish somewhere between first and last. our team will score goals, but i dont know how many. our penalty kill will be on the ice a few times a game, and lundqvist will wear his jersey during every game.

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Old
09-08-2009, 10:19 AM
  #38
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I like the way this team looks better than what it looked like last year. Last year's team was small and soft. To be honest I'm glad a lot of them are gone--because to me most of them didn't have what it takes to be real winners. Whether this year's team has that many more players that do is debateable and a matter of waiting and seeing but staying with basically the same team of underachievers we had last year would not have been smart--it was a group destined to go nowhere back then and certainly wouldn't be going anywhere now.

As for Zherdev--he has his own self to blame. He collapsed at the end of the year and his ideas about his value/worth were out of line and though he may sign with Atlanta or someone else--have to doubt seriously he's going to get anywhere near what he asked for in arbitration. He'll be very lucky just to get what the Rangers offered him in their QO. I'm not sorry to see him gone either.

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Old
09-08-2009, 10:38 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko23 View Post
thats like me saying we will finish somewhere between first and last. our team will score goals, but i dont know how many. our penalty kill will be on the ice a few times a game, and lundqvist will wear his jersey during every game.
How am I saying like that? If we come out and do not play up to par and miss the playoffs i dont think they will finish lower than 10th just by looking at the quality of the teams in the East. But I am saying that they will make the playoffs and if everything click they are capable of finishing as high as 4th with the pieces they have. I'm not saying i think they'll win the division but I dont see what makes the flyers or devils much better than them.

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Old
09-08-2009, 11:10 AM
  #40
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Predicting is nonsense.

All that matters is whether the coming youth is as advertised. If yes, the future is bright. If not, the future is as bleak as it has been for 10 years, and for those dead-certain that either scenario is true, forget it, you don't have a clue.

Experts predict every year and are as accurate as weather men.

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Old
09-08-2009, 11:11 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
How am I saying like that? If we come out and do not play up to par and miss the playoffs i dont think they will finish lower than 10th just by looking at the quality of the teams in the East. But I am saying that they will make the playoffs and if everything click they are capable of finishing as high as 4th with the pieces they have. I'm not saying i think they'll win the division but I dont see what makes the flyers or devils much better than them.
The Flyers and the Devils have established players that know their roles on the team. They don't come in each year with a bunch of spare parts that were picked up from the scrap heaps.

I agree I think this team will finish about 7th, I think they'd get eliminated in the first round, but I do try to look at it as a building year as long as Torts keeps his word and plays people based on merit. If it's like last year where we were promised youthful exuhberance every game, only to sit some of the young guys when they moments were big, that'd trying to avoid some of the experiences that come with the grow pains and I think players are molded by going through those growing pains not avoiding them.

So, if the youth gets their ice time and experiences the ups and downs of a long season then I think it's a productive year, but if the opposite happens, I think we'll be sitting right back here next year with a new bunch of spare parts saying we need the youth to grow again.

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09-08-2009, 11:34 AM
  #42
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I just love the title of this thread. Diehard Ranger fan with "concerns". LOL What an oxymoron. True since this team was founded! Hockey is different here!

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Old
09-08-2009, 11:42 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Look past the fact that you hate him and his contract.
Look past that to what? He's a ****** player that I don't want on my team at 6.5 million and he'd be a ****** player I wouldn't want on my team if he was being paid 2 million. Why would anyone want a slow player who is useless offensively, and not physical enough in his own end to make up for his turtle-like speed? Why don't you look past the fact that he's a Ranger and see what any unbiased fan can see? Again, a slight improvement over absolute garbage is not defined as greatness.

And I have nothing against Wade Redden, personally. By all indications, he's a great guy, and it's not his fault Glen Sather is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he's a completely mediocre player at both ends of the ice, and since his biggest weakness is a lack of speed, the chances of him improving as he gets further and further into his 30s aren't very big.

I'm not saying he's going to be worse, but that's a lot more likely than him getting any better.

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09-08-2009, 11:46 AM
  #44
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I just love the title of this thread. Diehard Ranger fan with "concerns". LOL What an oxymoron. True since this team was founded! Hockey is different here!
How is that in any way an oxymoron? Are you saying that Diehard Ranger fans MUST have blind faith and can not be concerned about anything...


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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Look past that to what? He's a ****** player that I don't want on my team at 6.5 million and he'd be a ****** player I wouldn't want on my team if he was being paid 2 million. Why would anyone want a slow player who is useless offensively, and not physical enough in his own end to make up for his turtle-like speed? Why don't you look past the fact that he's a Ranger and see what any unbiased fan can see? Again, a slight improvement over absolute garbage is not defined as greatness.

And I have nothing against Wade Redden, personally. By all indications, he's a great guy, and it's not his fault Glen Sather is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he's a completely mediocre player at both ends of the ice, and since his biggest weakness is a lack of speed, the chances of him improving as he gets further and further into his 30s aren't very big.

I'm not saying he's going to be worse, but that's a lot more likely than him getting any better.
I think you are over exaggerating Redden's worthlessness.

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09-08-2009, 11:51 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Look past that to what? He's a ****** player that I don't want on my team at 6.5 million and he'd be a ****** player I wouldn't want on my team if he was being paid 2 million. Why would anyone want a slow player who is useless offensively, and not physical enough in his own end to make up for his turtle-like speed? Why don't you look past the fact that he's a Ranger and see what any unbiased fan can see? Again, a slight improvement over absolute garbage is not defined as greatness.

And I have nothing against Wade Redden, personally. By all indications, he's a great guy, and it's not his fault Glen Sather is a moron. That doesn't change the fact that he's a completely mediocre player at both ends of the ice, and since his biggest weakness is a lack of speed, the chances of him improving as he gets further and further into his 30s aren't very big.

I'm not saying he's going to be worse, but that's a lot more likely than him getting any better.



Hey. Nothing is impossible in todays world. Barry Bonds got way better in his 30's. Maybe Redden will will grow huge muscles and become a terror hitting machine with a slap shot of over 100 miles per hour. He just needs to invest some of that salary in a "trainer". LOL

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Old
09-08-2009, 11:52 AM
  #46
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I definitely think that 7th or 8th is releastic, but I'm not sure if they can make an impact come playoff time.
The problem we've had in the past is that our older players are hitting the wall once regular season is over. We have a lot of young guys who are fast this season, who will really help with the problem of getting tired. I'm looking to hit 4th-1st this season.

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09-08-2009, 12:03 PM
  #47
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Wat's up guys, I am a die hard Rangers fan new to HF Boards.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I want to start by addressing concerns within this team. I used to be an optimistic Ranger's fan thinking every year we made our offseason moves that it could be the year where we finally get over the bubble, and obviously those feelings have been futile.

Now, there are a bunch of nieve Rangers fans that start to bother me more and more every year. I have now icreasingly become pessimistic about this team.

Like I had someone on the IGN NHL EA Boards think that the Rangers would be one of the top teams in the East, which leads me to reason number one I don't think so:

Once teams start to triple team Gaborik (if he stays healthy), then I really don't feel as though our secondary scoring could carry the load. I look at Prospal as being on the downside of his career, and I'd rather have Zherdev than both of them. We have a lot of 3rd and 4th line players now, with brashear, boyle, i personally think prospal isn't that good so you could concievably count him.

I know most of us are die hard Rangers fans, but I am really worried that this team isn't equipped to be very good at all, this is one of the times I hope I am wrong. Our defense consists of Staal and Girardi, a couple of slow, shoddy defenders, and two young kids. Our lines are scattered with some decent scoring here and there, we don't really have a line that could strike fear in any team, just a few decent plays scattered around.

So thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated, and no he's not a real Ranger fan, I'm just looking at the team realisticly and looking for an intelligent discussion on how bad we'll be this year lol jk.
I dont think the team is as bad as you paint them out to be.

They have more secondary scoring than last year and they made the playoffs last year. I think the Powerplay will be improved greatly this year (it really has no where to go but up when you look at last years stats).

Sure, the turnover is huge again this year... but the youth is getting older and there are still some pretty decent players coming up the pipeline like Anisimov, Del Zotto and Grachev. Who knows how many of them make the team and effect it positively. Even the addition of Tortorella will make a difference in my eyes.

I think there's one thing you have to keep in mind with this team at all times though. When you have an outstanding goaltender with the ability to carry a team like Lundqvist - anything is possible in the league. I always bring up the Edmonton Oilers in 05/06. They were an 8th seed with a so-so roster and they got good goaltending and the chemistry clicked to the point were they where 1 game away from winning the cup. A little luck, hard work and stellar goaltending can get you a long way in this league.

There is always hope.

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Old
09-08-2009, 12:11 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomE View Post
I believe Prospal and Kotalik both bring more than Zherdev. Sure Nik Z may put up more points in a blowout game but he will always be heartless.
Totally agree.
Prospal is by no means ancient and Kotalik along with Dru can work out well.
Higgins will be beast if paired up with Dubi and Callahan.
Clearly the main concern is Gabby being our top dog. if he stays healthy he will put
up over 100 pts


So I see actually like this

Avery (20G) Prospal (20G) Gabby (45 G)
Higgins(25G) Dubi (20G) Callahan (25G)
Kotalik (18G) Drury (15) Lisin /Anisimov (20)
Brash (5 G) Boyle (5) Ambuhl /Lisin 10 G

I think this will be much improved over last year

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Old
09-08-2009, 12:12 PM
  #49
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Drury has never scored less than 18 in his career. I don't think its gonna happen with Torts as a coach.

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09-08-2009, 12:13 PM
  #50
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The Rangers got knocked out of the playoffs the past two years--not only because they came up against more talented teams--teams with elite players--but also because they couldn't grind the games out against the bigger more physical teams that the Pens and Caps have become. They wound up spending too much time trapped in their own end and getting knocked around. There's not much we can do about superior talents like Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin but we can close the gap in other areas.

On the subject of Redden (or even Drury) I'm very skeptical. Sure we can give him another chance and yeah he'll probably be better but there's no way in hell he's worth $6.5 mil per for the next 5 years. Anyone at all wants to come and take him off our hands he's got to go.

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