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Old
09-07-2009, 09:38 PM
  #1
BluesFan45
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Question on Defensemen

Blues fan coming in peace and curiosity.

I think you guys have a really strong young team, will make the central fun to watch for many years to come...

I've seen rumors, blogs, etc talking about you all needing/wanting another Dman. I know Kaberle has come up (no matter how real the chances could be).

Have you all had any interest in Seidenberg or Babchuk? They seem like guys with offensive upside that might be a low risk (money wise) and decent reward venture.

Is it an internal budget issue or is the team happy with the top 6 they have right now?

Thanks.

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09-07-2009, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BluesFan45 View Post
Blues fan coming in peace and curiosity.

I think you guys have a really strong young team, will make the central fun to watch for many years to come...

I've seen rumors, blogs, etc talking about you all needing/wanting another Dman. I know Kaberle has come up (no matter how real the chances could be).

Have you all had any interest in Seidenberg or Babchuk? They seem like guys with offensive upside that might be a low risk (money wise) and decent reward venture.

Is it an internal budget issue or is the team happy with the top 6 they have right now?

Thanks.
Internal budget issue.

In order to add more salary we would have to subtract it from somewhere before signing a FA. Of the forwards we would be likely willing to move (Chimmer and Modin) there doesn't seem to be a lineup for them.

If we were going to make a trade, the money would have to be pretty much dollar for dollar.

Erhoff would have been great and they jackets could have easily provided the same, or better, than the Canucks did, but it was pretty obvious that SJ didn't want to take any money back in that deal so we were SOL on that one.

Are we happy with our 6 d? Meh. We need a puck mover and we lack depth after our 6 guys with Roy (Mathieu) being our 7th, Holden (and undrafted FA with mono as our 8th) and Clitsome (a 9th rounder--yes, that is his name) as our 9th.

If Methot and Russell make the strides everyone hopes they will, we will be a solid defending team again, but our offensive prowess from our back end will be average at best with this group.

Once the season starts the depth of all teams in the NHL will be tested because of the compressed schedule. Because we lack reasonable NHL talent in those slots, we could be in trouble.

Long story short, we will live with what we have, but an upgrade is on the menu.

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09-07-2009, 10:05 PM
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CBJSprague24
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Babchuk & Seidenberg have been talked about on here. Some are leery about Babchuk possibly wanting to return to Mother Russia, which would be the second time we've been in that situation (Zherdev).

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09-07-2009, 10:30 PM
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I may be crazy , but I think Moore will be on the team after 1 year of junior. I just don't see us going crazy to get a dman this year. If we can get one cheap (money, years, and/or what it would take to trade for) we will get one. Otherwise, I think we go with what we've got.

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09-07-2009, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I may be crazy , but I think Moore will be on the team after 1 year of junior. I just don't see us going crazy to get a dman this year. If we can get one cheap (money, years, and/or what it would take to trade for) we will get one. Otherwise, I think we go with what we've got.
That'd be fantastic. But I'm going to go ahead and call you crazy.

I actually like Babchuk, and don't think him defecting is that big of an issue truth be told. I think we'd have a more full top 6 with Babchuk, and then we could carry Methot as a 7th D...

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09-08-2009, 05:57 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Long story short, we will live with what we have, but an upgrade is on the menu.
But you'd already told the long version.

@ the OP

Hard to know what's been of interest (other than the Ehrhoff offer) because of the internal budget issue. I (well, pretty much everyone) think(s) someone would have been brought in already if it fit the budget model.

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09-08-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJSprague24 View Post
Babchuk & Seidenberg have been talked about on here. Some are leery about Babchuk possibly wanting to return to Mother Russia, which would be the second time we've been in that situation (Zherdev).
Don't forget Svitov.

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09-08-2009, 08:14 AM
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In a perfect world, yes we'd be actively pursuing FA Defensemen and/or trades that would bring a defenseman to Columbus.

The reality is that nothing attainable at this time is worth the cost. Coupled with the potential of the defensemen in the system already, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. It would take a trade imo, and nothing of worth is worth trading. If Chimera scores 15 goals before the Olympic break, I could see him being valuable in a trade, but do we want to move a guy that is happy and productive?

In the words of the GM:

Quote:
"We have made it clear from the start that our plan is building from within," Howson said. "That only works if your talent within is good enough, and we think ours has the potential to be very, very good.

"We've left room in our budget for these players(Voracek, Filatov, etc). We want them to be part of our group for a long, long time. That's how we're building."

"We have to be prepared to keep these players," Howson said. "We have to keep room (under the budget) to make it happen. And we will do that."
That first sentence tells me that Scott's not going screw himself 2-3 years down the road to make his team better for 1 or 2 seasons. This is a sound philosophy imo, and will help maintain the financial health of the org., while building a cohesive team that replenish its own ranks.

We've got Mason, Vermette, Filatov, and Voracek to extend over the next 24 months. We can't afford to pay a premium to attract a UFA(like we did for Commodore).


Last edited by Nordique: 09-08-2009 at 08:21 AM.
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09-09-2009, 10:23 PM
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Thanks for the insight guys.

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09-09-2009, 11:19 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye19 View Post
That'd be fantastic. But I'm going to go ahead and call you crazy.

I actually like Babchuk, and don't think him defecting is that big of an issue truth be told. I think we'd have a more full top 6 with Babchuk, and then we could carry Methot as a 7th D...
Methot as a 7th is a waste of talent.

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09-10-2009, 06:44 AM
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pete goegan
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Originally Posted by frickin dannie View Post
Methot as a 7th is a waste of talent.
Oh, for the days when we're good enough to waste talent! Hitchcock brought him along nicely, last season, and I'm pretty sure he's in the plans for this one. If we have six better, he'll be 7th and waiting for his turn. It's not always about raw talent, either; sometimes lineups are more dependent on specific skill sets. If Methot brings what Hitch wants on a particular night, he'll play. I like him, but I'll be very happy when we have as much depth on the blueline as we seem to have at wing and guys like Mark are fighting hard for playing time. Then, we'll be (dare I say it?) good!

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09-10-2009, 08:45 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by frickin dannie View Post
Methot as a 7th is a waste of talent.

I agree. He's a solid young 3rd pairing guy with potential to move up. I don't know at what point he became the forum whipping boy, but imo his 1st year was very solid. 66 games, +7, only 55 pims, nearly 18 minutes a game.

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09-10-2009, 09:09 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I agree. He's a solid young 3rd pairing guy with potential to move up. I don't know at what point he became the forum whipping boy, but imo his 1st year was very solid. 66 games, +7, only 55 pims, nearly 18 minutes a game.
We seem to have a lot of whipping boys here lately even if the stats don't back up the poor taste the player leaves in the mouth.


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09-10-2009, 09:15 AM
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We seem to have a lot of whipping boys here lately even if the stats don't back up the poor taste.
Stats are only a fraction of the story, watching the games provides the rest of the book.

I think people mistake a guy as being a 'whipping boy' when people are merely putting a touch of realism into things.

Like I said in another thread, just because Portzline once referred to Methot as a top 4 d man it doesn't make it so.

Mind you you are also quoting a guy who thinks our d depth is perfectly fine so.....

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09-10-2009, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Stats are only a fraction of the story, watching the games provides the rest of the book.

I think people mistake a guy as being a 'whipping boy' when people are merely putting a touch of realism into things.

Like I said in another thread, just because Portzline once referred to Methot as a top 4 d man it doesn't make it so.

Mind you you are also quoting a guy who thinks our d depth is perfectly fine so.....
I was only referring to the part of his post about having the whipping boys around not the actual thread about the D. Frankly if anyone thinks the D depth is fine they need to get some medication. Unless some of the prospects really step up from last year we are going to have a long season if additions are not made.

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09-10-2009, 09:47 AM
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The situation on defense is not black and white. There is always room for an upgrade, but the current deficiencies don't warrant desperate moves.

A good case can be made for needing more depth on D...without tearing down Mark Methot. I am fine with the arguments that we are...

1)based on the past going to suffer some serious games lost due to injuries in our top 4
2)lacking an experienced 7th with the departure of OKT
3)have some defensive question marks in the current top 6(Russell)

Personally, I don't see any see any good options for upgrading our defense. Scott won't trade real prospects and the UFA pool is slim.

We were in the exact same position at Center just 1 year ago. Scott held pat rather than trading our #1 goalie at the time to secure Brad Richards. In hindsight, it was probably a good call given Richards production/injuries in Dallas and the emergence of Brassard. Pascal stock did go down due to his own injuries, but he still was valuable enough to bring Vermette to town.

From what I have observed, Howson's default position is build from within. He isn't going to force any moves, or pay a crazy premium unless we have a glaring hole to fill(Commodore contract for example).

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09-10-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
If we have six better, he'll be 7th and waiting for his turn. It's not always about raw talent, either; sometimes lineups are more dependent on specific skill sets. If Methot brings what Hitch wants on a particular night, he'll play. I like him, but I'll be very happy when we have as much depth on the blueline as we seem to have at wing and guys like Mark are fighting hard for playing time. Then, we'll be (dare I say it?) good!
Yet you never mention Russell "if we have six better". Is Russell a defensman or not? What exactly is he doing for our defense with a minus 10 +/- rating? Is that a +/- Hitchcock wants for a skill set on a particular night?

If Howson signs a defenseman it will most likely be a puck moving offensive defenseman, if so do you really think Hitchcock will start two offensive defenseman one of which is Russell putting Methot in the pressbox? I doubt it, the new offensive defenseman will replace Russell.

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09-10-2009, 02:26 PM
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Yet you never mention Russell "if we have six better". Is Russell a defensman or not? What exactly is he doing for our defense with a minus 10 +/- rating? Is that a +/- Hitchcock wants for a skill set on a particular night?

If Howson signs a defenseman it will most likely be a puck moving offensive defenseman, if so do you really think Hitchcock will start two offensive defenseman one of which is Russell putting Methot in the pressbox? I doubt it, the new offensive defenseman will replace Russell.
Yes, if Howson acquires another defenseman with scoring & puck-moving potential, I do think that Hitch will start two offensive d-men, putting Methot in the pressbox. Why not? Wouldn't that help balance out the pairings? In my opinion, Russell is still ahead of Methot in the CBJ pecking order, in large part because of his offensive skill set. I like Methot and feel that he has more offensive potential than others may perceive, but I doubt he's ever going to have the quickness, skating, and stick-handling skills that Russell does. Time may prove you right, Robert, but that's not the way I see the situation going into this camp. Either way is fine with me - we need at least eight competent big league blueliners and I don't much care who sits, as long as the guys that play are better. For that, I trust H&H!

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09-10-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Yes, if Howson acquires another defenseman with scoring & puck-moving potential, I do think that Hitch will start two offensive d-men, putting Methot in the pressbox. Why not? Wouldn't that help balance out the pairings? In my opinion, Russell is still ahead of Methot in the CBJ pecking order, in large part because of his offensive skill set. I like Methot and feel that he has more offensive potential than others may perceive, but I doubt he's ever going to have the quickness, skating, and stick-handling skills that Russell does. Time may prove you right, Robert, but that's not the way I see the situation going into this camp. Either way is fine with me - we need at least eight competent big league blueliners and I don't much care who sits, as long as the guys that play are better. For that, I trust H&H!
Fair enough, we can remind each other later this season who was right..

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09-10-2009, 02:31 PM
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No doubt, Bob!

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09-10-2009, 02:32 PM
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Fair enough, we can remind each other later this season who was right..
I would think, should the "add another d-man" scenario play out, that you would both have plenty opportunities to be right, based on matchups. And, if Babchuk in particular ends up being the guy (or MAB for that matter, god forbid) that you'll see a third pair that doesn't include the new guy at times as well.

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09-10-2009, 02:41 PM
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I would think, should the "add another d-man" scenario play out, that you would both have plenty opportunities to be right, ...
Is that legal? Is it even possible? Doesn't a mod saying that on a message board violate some secret society agreement? Are you now in danger of being a "Desaparecido," Bunny?

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09-10-2009, 02:44 PM
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Is that legal? Is it even possible? Doesn't a mod saying that on a message board violate some secret society agreement? Are you now in danger of being "disappeared," Bunny?
Mods are here to make sure everyone is happy. Or else.

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09-10-2009, 02:53 PM
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Mods are here to make sure everyone is happy. Or else.
next time you steal a page from my parenting handbook, least give me a hat tip.

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09-10-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Yes, if Howson acquires another defenseman with scoring & puck-moving potential, I do think that Hitch will start two offensive d-men, putting Methot in the pressbox. Why not? Wouldn't that help balance out the pairings? In my opinion, Russell is still ahead of Methot in the CBJ pecking order, in large part because of his offensive skill set. I like Methot and feel that he has more offensive potential than others may perceive, but I doubt he's ever going to have the quickness, skating, and stick-handling skills that Russell does. Time may prove you right, Robert, but that's not the way I see the situation going into this camp. Either way is fine with me - we need at least eight competent big league blueliners and I don't much care who sits, as long as the guys that play are better. For that, I trust H&H!
Amen brutha!

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