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The Kessel File-Volume 2 - Phil Wants Out of Beantown

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Old
09-09-2009, 08:33 AM
  #26
Newfie John
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I'm pretty sure that Boston likes having Ryder in the lineup and would not be considered a salary dump. We'd surely be giving up a very large package in any deal that involves both players.
You could be right, as Ryder's 27 goals last season isn't too bad at all. However, with Savard, Wheeler and Lucic all becoming free agents next season, Chiarelli may value them more than Ryder.

You're right that Boston won't just give him away, but I don't think it would take that much given their cap situation.

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09-09-2009, 08:35 AM
  #27
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I agree with the notion that Kessel is better than any top 10 pick. To be honest, I dont believe that the leafs will get a top 10 pick. I think that if we miss the playoffs this season, it will be once again by less than 5 points. That being said, the best scenerio in the draft would be high single digit draft(7, 8, 9.) and Kessel will prove to be a better addition than any one of those picks IMO.

I believe that if a trade is made now, it will be draft picks and possibly a prospect. I don't see us trading any of our roster players projected for this season and Boston does not have the need for a defenseman with the addition of Morris.

Overall, I like Kessel and would LOVE to see him in the blue and white. Hey! who knows? we could use him to lure Marc Savard in free agency and BAM! we have a nice looking first line.

Kessel-Savard-Kadri

^ Really like the idea of that line.

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09-09-2009, 08:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
You could be right, as Ryder's 27 goals last season isn't too bad at all. However, with Savard, Wheeler and Lucic all becoming free agents next season, Chiarelli may value them more than Ryder.

You're right that Boston won't just give him away, but I don't think it would take that much given their cap situation.
People here realize Kessel and Ryder are Boston's top two RW's right?

Does it make any sense for Boston to move both... and if for some odd reason it did... do you really think Ryder would be negative value?

Sorry, I'm not trying to troll, just wanted to point out how ridiculous that theory was from a Bruins standpoint. Boston doesn't just like Ryder, they love him. Chiarelli has said he's the prototypical Bruin.

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09-09-2009, 08:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Team can be 10% over until the season starts. So can Boston.

Boston could match and waive someone else.

Not a slam dunk, just a little push, getting the pick back.
Thats true but your only delaying the inevitable and there is only 3 weeks until that decision would have to be made (Oct 1st).

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09-09-2009, 08:44 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
People here realize Kessel and Ryder are Boston's top two RW's right?

Does it make any sense for Boston to move both... and if for some odd reason it did... do you really think Ryder would be negative value?

Sorry, I'm not trying to troll, just wanted to point out how ridiculous that theory was from a Bruins standpoint. Boston doesn't just like Ryder, they love him. Chiarelli has said he's the prototypical Bruin.
Don't worry, I appreciate your insight.

I was just echoing Berger's speculation, and upon further review it does look pretty baseless. I don't think Ryder has negative value, but I think he could be had for less than what a 27 goal scorer would usually cost given his salary, and Boston's cap problems.

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09-09-2009, 08:48 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Don't worry, I appreciate your insight.

I was just echoing Berger's speculation, and upon further review it does look pretty baseless. I don't think Ryder has negative value, but I think he could be had for less than what a 27 goal scorer would usually cost given his salary, and Boston's cap problems.
if kaberle goes as part of the kessel deal boston will still have to move some salary. ryder was somewhat re-born there last year but he does seem to be a guy that would be moved before alot of other forwards. what's ryder's cap hit?

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09-09-2009, 08:51 AM
  #32
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I would speculate that the deal he might be trying to make (instead of just making the offer sheet straight up) is probably the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, but throwing in another 2nd or 3rd to make the 1st a lottery protected pick.

I would rather figure out a way to get kessel without giving up the first rounder, but I just don't see how that's possible.

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09-09-2009, 08:52 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by akiberg View Post
if kaberle goes as part of the kessel deal boston will still have to move some salary. ryder was somewhat re-born there last year but he does seem to be a guy that would be moved before alot of other forwards. what's ryder's cap hit?
$4M.

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09-09-2009, 08:54 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by akiberg View Post
if kaberle goes as part of the kessel deal boston will still have to move some salary. ryder was somewhat re-born there last year but he does seem to be a guy that would be moved before alot of other forwards. what's ryder's cap hit?
4 million.

I think the Kaberle to Boston ship has sailed. Not only does Kaberle have a NTC, but in any trade between Boston and Toronto, I don't think Boston is taking much back in salary.

This is why I think that if a deal is struck, it will probably be Ian White going to Boston with a conglomeration of picks and prospects.

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09-09-2009, 09:20 AM
  #35
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Also I think that if Burke can't get a deal for Kessel then Dubinsky comes into play. Burke will add a forward before the season starts in my opinion. One of Kessel or Dubinsky. I have a feeling Kessel will be a Leaf by the end of September.
I don't see the big deal with Dubinsky. He's a pretty good player but I doubt he's even on Burke's radar. If we're going for RFA's, Stafford is a better player and a better fit too.

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09-09-2009, 09:21 AM
  #36
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Some interesting stuff from Spector

http://www.spectorshockey.net/index....umors&Itemid=4

Quote:
SPECTOR'S NOTE: Forget about the Leafs moving recent additions Mike Komisarek and Francois Beauchemin or promising Luke Schenn too. That's leave Mike Van Ryn, Ian White, Jeff Finger, Jonas Frogren and Garnet Exelby, and of those, White might have the most value to the Bruins. White plus the first and second round picks for Kessel could be the asking price from Chiarelli.
Quote:
BOSTON GLOBE/WEEI/NESN.COM: also reported Chiarelli is looking ahead to next summer when Marc Savard, Blake Wheeler and Milan Lucic will be due for new contracts and likely significant raises. Savard claims he's happy in Boston and wants to finish his career there, adding he was confident something could be done, but the three sites note the Bruins could lack the cap space to keep Savard off the UFA market next summer and still re-sign Wheeler and Lucic.
Could Savard be the other player in an expanded deal, I'm not sure the fans in Boston would sit still, if both Savard and Kessel were traded and just what would we send to Boston, to amp up this type of deal.

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09-09-2009, 09:24 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
Some interesting stuff from Spector





Could Savard be the other player in an expanded deal, I'm not sure the fans in Boston would sit still, if both Savard and Kessel were traded and just what would we send to Boston, to amp up this type of deal.
Don't see it happening. Marc Savard alone would likely cost to the effect of Kulemin, Tlusty and a pick. I'd rather take my chances and wait to see if he becomes a UFA. Savard wanted to play here before, maybe he still does.

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09-09-2009, 09:33 AM
  #38
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Could Savard be the other player in an expanded deal, I'm not sure the fans in Boston would sit still, if both Savard and Kessel were traded and just what would we send to Boston, to amp up this type of deal.
I don't think there's any chance at all of Savard coming with Kessel.

On a side note, Savard wanted badly to sign with the Leafs when his last contract was up but there was no interest. I for one, really wanted the Leafs to sign him but I was shot down by most people here because I was told the only reason he was putting up points was because of Hossa and Kovalchuk. Obviously stupid but that's the way some people think I guess.

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09-09-2009, 09:33 AM
  #39
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Don't see it happening. Marc Savard alone would likely cost to the effect of Kulemin, Tlusty and a pick. I'd rather take my chances and wait to see if he becomes a UFA. Savard wanted to play here before, maybe he still does.
I agree but if Chiarelli feels he can't resign him next year and he would see him, as a deadline trade anyway, he might consider dealing him now and if that, in fact, is the issue, Kaberle could be part of the deal, or certainly a boat load of picks and prospects would be.

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09-09-2009, 09:42 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
Some interesting stuff from Spector

http://www.spectorshockey.net/index....umors&Itemid=4





Could Savard be the other player in an expanded deal, I'm not sure the fans in Boston would sit still, if both Savard and Kessel were traded and just what would we send to Boston, to amp up this type of deal.
For this to happen toronto would pretty much have to offer up their best 3 players/prospects under 25, NO EXCLUSIONS.... So 1) Schenn 2)?? 3)?? On second thought why doesnt chia just throw in Lucic too and you can have bostons whole 1st line??

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09-09-2009, 09:44 AM
  #41
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In terms of a trade, i would speculate White, Tlustly and picks involved.

I would hate to lose both of them, but for Kessel, its a must.

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09-09-2009, 09:50 AM
  #42
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Also I think that if Burke can't get a deal for Kessel then Dubinsky comes into play. Burke will add a forward before the season starts in my opinion. One of Kessel or Dubinsky. I have a feeling Kessel will be a Leaf by the end of September.

After Burkes recient statements on TSN I agree with you! but I disagree with your time line. I believe that Burke hopes players like Poni, Stajan, Tulsty, Stalberg, White, etc. have a great start to the season. The value of them will go up and then he can make a trade for Kessel rather then an offer sheet. He won't want to give up the first rounder. Remember Kessel is out till November and won't be at training camp with out a contract. Lots of time for things to develop.

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09-09-2009, 09:50 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
You could be right, as Ryder's 27 goals last season isn't too bad at all. However, with Savard, Wheeler and Lucic all becoming free agents next season, Chiarelli may value them more than Ryder.

You're right that Boston won't just give him away, but I don't think it would take that much given their cap situation.
Ryder also had 5-8-13 points in 11 playoff games to tie Savard for the team lead.

His 27 goals was more then any Maple Leaf put up last season and his 53 points would have made him a top 5 scorer also.

Ryder makes 2 X $4mil on his remaining contract and I support the idea that Bruins value Savard, Wheeler and Lucic more and would prefer to utilize Ryders money not so much this season by next year to get all those others resigned..

What trading Ryder does also for Boston is allows them to take back some short-term contract $$ in trade as in MVR 1 X $2.9 mil or Lee Stempniak 1 X $2.5 mil or perhaps even Pony at 1 X $2.1 mil.

Kaberle at 2 X $4.25 mil minus Ryder at 2 X $ 4 mil is also a nice balance of Salary for Bruins if the concept of a deal is still really Kaberle for Kessel as it was at the draft. A TSN video report today on Burke claims Leafs have upped their draft day offer for Kessel and we all know that offer involved Kabs.

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09-09-2009, 09:57 AM
  #44
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Ryder also had 5-8-13 points in 11 playoff games to tie Savard for the team lead.

His 27 goals was more then any Maple Leaf put up last season and his 53 points would have made him a top 5 scorer also.

Ryder makes 2 X $4mil on his remaining contract and I support the idea that Bruins value Savard, Wheeler and Lucic more and would prefer to utilize Ryders money not so much this season by next year to get all those others resigned..

What trading Ryder does also for Boston is allows them to take back some short-term contract $$ in trade as in MVR 1 X $2.9 mil or Lee Stempniak 1 X $2.5 mil or perhaps even Pony at 1 X $2.1 mil.

Kaberle at 2 X $4.25 mil minus Ryder at 2 X $ 4 mil is also a nice balance of Salary for Bruins if the concept of a deal is still really Kaberle for Kessel as it was at the draft. A TSN video report today on Burke claims Leafs have upped their draft day offer for Kessel and we all know that offer involved Kabs.
It would have made sense at the draft if Boston would have asked for Kabby, but now after the signing of Morris, I dont think they need him. I think whatever contracts they'll ask for will be that of prospects and even if not, will be much cheaper than the 4.25 Kaberle makes.

I hope Burke can find a way to keep him.

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09-09-2009, 09:59 AM
  #45
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For this to happen toronto would pretty much have to offer up their best 3 players/prospects under 25, NO EXCLUSIONS.... So 1) Schenn 2)?? 3)??
I don't think Schenn will be going anywhere but as I stated above it'll take a lot, to get both of them and the price may be too high.

I would just put in the offer sheet and take our chances Boston won't match, then if Savard is available next year as a UFA make an offer.

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09-09-2009, 10:01 AM
  #46
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In terms of a trade, i would speculate White, Tlustly and picks involved.

I would hate to lose both of them, but for Kessel, its a must.
I really hope Tlusty is not included in a trade. I have a feeling he will break out this or next year and his career will be better than our own 1st round pick in 2010.

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09-09-2009, 10:07 AM
  #47
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It would have made sense at the draft if Boston would have asked for Kabby, but now after the signing of Morris, I dont think they need him. I think whatever contracts they'll ask for will be that of prospects and even if not, will be much cheaper than the 4.25 Kaberle makes.

I hope Burke can find a way to keep him.
He does, Kaberle's NTC.

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09-09-2009, 10:07 AM
  #48
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As been mentioned before, if the Leafs do trade their first three picks this year, they do have several UFA's coming up that may be traded at the deadline.

Stajan 2nd?
Ponikarovsky 2nd?
Van Ryn 2nd?
Mayers 3rd?
Stempniak 2nd?

I'm sure not all will/could be traded, but there is an oppourtunity to get some picks back if Burke so chooses. Think there may be more UFA's on the Leafs.....

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09-09-2009, 10:09 AM
  #49
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I don't think there's any chance at all of Savard coming with Kessel.

On a side note, Savard wanted badly to sign with the Leafs when his last contract was up but there was no interest. I for one, really wanted the Leafs to sign him but I was shot down by most people here because I was told the only reason he was putting up points was because of Hossa and Kovalchuk. Obviously stupid but that's the way some people think I guess.
Fans will be fans , but hitching your wagon to the hopes that GM Ferguson would actualy be a good judge of NHL talent and sign a good player is where you went wrong here my friend.

Instead of giving Savard 4 year X $4 mil per he decided Jason Allison at 1 X $3.5 mil was the way to go.. The concept behind that thought being short term money like Allison for 1 year and then waiting for the new CBA UFA age limit to keep dropping and then grab a younger player long-term in the future.. However when the dust settled JFJ fired off a 5 year X $ 4 mil per deal bigger deal than Savard got, at aging 34 year old 1 year wonder Jason Blake instead completely ignoring his own plan and advice. Who knows with a 1-2 punch at center of Sundin and Savard we would have likely seen playoff games post lockout by our Leafs.

I agree the only reason Bruins would deal Kessel a young player is that they hope to retain Savard long-term with a contract extension along with Wheeler and Lucic and keep that core group together.

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09-09-2009, 10:18 AM
  #50
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4 million.

I think the Kaberle to Boston ship has sailed. Not only does Kaberle have a NTC, but in any trade between Boston and Toronto, I don't think Boston is taking much back in salary.

This is why I think that if a deal is struck, it will probably be Ian White going to Boston with a conglomeration of picks and prospects.
I'm not even sure Ian White would draw a whole lot of interest from the Bruins. The D appears to be pretty much set at this point. Adding Ian White would require a follow up move or two to clear out a top-6 defenseman (which would likely be Andrew Ference). Is the upgrade worth it?

Ideally, I think the Bruins would like to add blue chip D prospect to their system. The other two teams speculated to be in trade talks with the Bruins regarding Kessel are Nashville and New York. Both teams have a deeper pool of D prospects to choose from.

I also wouldn't rule out Kaberle being involved. Chiarelli did say he had contingency plans in place in the event he comes to terms with Kessel or is forced to match an offer sheet. So it's probably safe to assume he has other ways of clearing money if need be. A top-4 of Chara-Kaberle-Wideman-Morris would be tops in the league IMO.

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