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EK's - Sens, Sharks and Devs possible trade?

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:57 AM
  #26
Bill_Crosby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
I saw DW yesterday and I told him "No Heatley" as he walked by, he laughed.
I see Dave Nonis a couple times a week at this self-serve buffet type place here in Toronto. I wish I could think of something clever to say to him to make him laugh...I bet he has a heavenly laugh, like Frosty the Snowman

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:59 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by KingsCrown View Post
Who would NJ be sending the other way?? Tedenby, '10 1st + ???
Tedenby won't be moved, neither will Josefson. There's no way we'd give up our top prospects for a year of Marleau.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:05 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by njdevil3027 View Post
1st line center who will bolt back to SJ the following off-season even if he doesn't the devils dont have 6+ to spend to keep him. Josefson is being fast tracked to the NHL and should be a devils for 10-11. Within NJ Josefson is UNTOUCHABLE unless we get such a vast overpayment its impossible to say no too.
I'm operating under the assumption that New Jersey is interested in picking up Marleau (and are willing to pay fair value for him). Whether or not that is the case can certainly be debated, and I don't pretend to have any sort of inside information, but for the purposes of this thread and my trade proposal, thats the assumption I'm making. If thats the case, you'd also need to assume New Jersey felt they could re-sign him, otherwise he is not worth the assets it would take to acquire him. You have to understand that to San Jose, Marleau has more value than just a one year rental. In order to acquire him you need to pay more than you would for just a one year rental, you need to pay full value for a first line centre. Also, don't underestimate the value of an expiring contract with a looming cap drop.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:15 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
I see Dave Nonis a couple times a week at this self-serve buffet type place here in Toronto. I wish I could think of something clever to say to him to make him laugh...I bet he has a heavenly laugh, like Frosty the Snowman
The kind that just warms you up on a cold winter day, right? I bet he does.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:17 AM
  #30
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Atta boy Rickety, where did you see him? I just want to walk by and say the same.
By the east enterance at Sharks ice, he looked to be in a hurry so I said that in passing. He did seem friendly. Then as he was walking away I said "can you promise me no Heatley?" and tossed up his hands in a "I dunno" kind of way. I think his response though was in line with his "I can't talk about other team's players" philosophy.

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09-09-2009, 11:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
By the east enterance at Sharks ice, he looked to be in a hurry so I said that in passing. He did seem friendly. Then as he was walking away I said "can you promise me no Heatley?" and tossed up his hands in a "I dunno" kind of way. I think his response though was in line with his "I can't talk about other team's players" philosophy.
I met him once in his playing days at a stationary store opening in my hometown. Guy is all class and super nice. His GM abilities leave something to be desired right now.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:45 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by brit View Post
Give up Josefson and a consumate team member for one year of Marleau?

Yeccccccccccccch.
Doing Ottawa a FAVOR helping them get this deal done,
Doing San Jose a FAVOR helping them get this deal done,
Giving up prospects to do so, a bit of cap they otherwise would just keep as well and all for 1yr of Marleau, a guy who wants to be a Shark for life.

I just don't see that deal being possible lmao. That's like when the Montreal-San Jose-Ottawa rumors were surfacing, Montreal using Subban to land 1 year of Marleau and giving up more. Of course they'd never do this, same goes for NJ.

Down right ridiculous.

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09-09-2009, 11:55 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
I'm operating under the assumption that New Jersey is interested in picking up Marleau (and are willing to pay fair value for him). Whether or not that is the case can certainly be debated, and I don't pretend to have any sort of inside information, but for the purposes of this thread and my trade proposal, thats the assumption I'm making. If thats the case, you'd also need to assume New Jersey felt they could re-sign him, otherwise he is not worth the assets it would take to acquire him. You have to understand that to San Jose, Marleau has more value than just a one year rental. In order to acquire him you need to pay more than you would for just a one year rental, you need to pay full value for a first line centre. Also, don't underestimate the value of an expiring contract with a looming cap drop.
You would also need to assume that New Jersey, the team AIDING two other NHL teams in closing a deal, is for some reason going to be the team that gets shafted in this deal, rather then Ottawa the team that actually needs to get rid of a player.

Give me a break, all things you mentioned considered, what motivation does New Jersey have to be the losers in a 3 way deal that not only aids a conference rival offload a player who can't stand to stay there, but gives San Jose Heatley and pisses away good prospects for a 1 year UFA who will "probably sign" (using your logic here, saying that it's 80% he would re-sign if the deal went down)

It still doesn't make any sense what so ever. Why is NJ in such a rush when they can sign any UFA this summer or even Marleau himself? What makes them help out 2 teams they have no reason to help, putting themselves in a worse position? You need to think of it from a standpoint of this: Which teams in the NHL even have the ability to help SJ+OTT in this deal? Few. Why would the teams that can (the ones who hold ALL the cards) basically fold on a royal flush? Do you know anyone who would fold on a royal flush?

Nuff said imo, just like the MTL-SJ-OTT scenario, the NJ-SJ-OTT scenario doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the helping team.

The way I look at it is like this, any three way deal should go like this 95% of the time, arranging it from who makes off like bandits to who gets ****ed over the most.

1) Team helping the two teams get it done
2) Team trying to acquire the player who wants out.
3) Team with the player who wants out.

In some rare cases imo 1 + 2 are changeable, I highly doubt though that 1 and 3 are, you get what I'm saying? I highly doubt 3 could ever be 1 or 2, not unless it's a fluke where you give up a low grade prospect who pans out in the NHL as a star player, which we all know isn't all that common. (Sure there have been late picks who have panned out, but how often do you see a late pick who has been pretty mediocre his entire career, mediocre enough to merit him being of AHL value to a transaction, becoming a superstar or star or even average NHLer? It happens rarely. You'll see young uprising stars who get traded while in the OHL/AHL/etc and become stars, but rarely guys who are just normal everyday 3rd liners, and that would be the only case in which a team who needs to dump a player who wants out actually wins a scenario like this, a total fluke)

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Old
09-09-2009, 12:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Doing Ottawa a FAVOR helping them get this deal done,
Doing San Jose a FAVOR helping them get this deal done,
Giving up prospects to do so, a bit of cap they otherwise would just keep as well and all for 1yr of Marleau, a guy who wants to be a Shark for life.

I just don't see that deal being possible lmao. That's like when the Montreal-San Jose-Ottawa rumors were surfacing, Montreal using Subban to land 1 year of Marleau and giving up more. Of course they'd never do this, same goes for NJ.

Down right ridiculous.
The ridiculousness of the rumors isn't any of the proposals. I haven't seen any sort of proposal that could be substantiated to even make a judgment on who would win or lose. The ridiculousness of these rumors is that Eklund says that Marleau is stopping the deals which is just a flat-out lie. Doug Wilson has already come out and said he has not asked Marleau to waive his clause and yet this travesty continues.

Marleau's not going anywhere because Doug Wilson isn't going to trade him. Besides, Marleau for Heatley in any sort of way is a step backwards in the long-term for the Sharks w/o any sort of step forward in the short-term.

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Old
09-09-2009, 12:15 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
You would also need to assume that New Jersey, the team AIDING two other NHL teams in closing a deal, is for some reason going to be the team that gets shafted in this deal, rather then Ottawa the team that actually needs to get rid of a player.
A top 4 defenseman and a good prospect for a first line centre is absolutely not getting shafted, you have got to be kidding me. And the Heatley situation has no bearing on this trade for New Jersey, all that matters to them is Marleau for White and Josefson.

Quote:
Give me a break, all things you mentioned considered, what motivation does New Jersey have to be the losers in a 3 way deal that not only aids a conference rival offload a player who can't stand to stay there, but gives San Jose Heatley and pisses away good prospects for a 1 year UFA who will "probably sign" (using your logic here, saying that it's 80% he would re-sign if the deal went down)

It still doesn't make any sense what so ever. Why is NJ in such a rush when they can sign any UFA this summer or even Marleau himself? What makes them help out 2 teams they have no reason to help, putting themselves in a worse position? You need to think of it from a standpoint of this: Which teams in the NHL even have the ability to help SJ+OTT in this deal? Few. Why would the teams that can (the ones who hold ALL the cards) basically fold on a royal flush? Do you know anyone who would fold on a royal flush?

Nuff said imo, just like the MTL-SJ-OTT scenario, the NJ-SJ-OTT scenario doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the helping team.
You completely missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying New Jersey wanted Marleau, nor did it make sense for them to acquire him, thats another topic completely. My point was IF (emphasis on if, as this is strictly hypothetical) New Jersey wanted to acquire Marleau, thats the price it would require. Once again, I must emphasize that I'm not saying anything about whether or not New Jersey actually wants Marleau (frankly I don't think New Jersey should bother, they've got enough top end forward talent in my mind and acquiring more would just cause a larger imbalance somewhere else on their roster)

Quote:
The way I look at it is like this, any three way deal should go like this 95% of the time, arranging it from who makes off like bandits to who gets ****ed over the most.

1) Team helping the two teams get it done
2) Team trying to acquire the player who wants out.
3) Team with the player who wants out.

In some rare cases imo 1 + 2 are changeable, I highly doubt though that 1 and 3 are, you get what I'm saying? I highly doubt 3 could ever be 1 or 2, not unless it's a fluke where you give up a low grade prospect who pans out in the NHL as a star player, which we all know isn't all that common. (Sure there have been late picks who have panned out, but how often do you see a late pick who has been pretty mediocre his entire career, mediocre enough to merit him being of AHL value to a transaction, becoming a superstar or star or even average NHLer? It happens rarely. You'll see young uprising stars who get traded while in the OHL/AHL/etc and become stars, but rarely guys who are just normal everyday 3rd liners, and that would be the only case in which a team who needs to dump a player who wants out actually wins a scenario like this, a total fluke)
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. As a New Jersey fan, all you should be concerned about is whether Marleau for White and Josefson is a deal that will help your team. Who cares how most 3 way deals turn out, thats completely inconsequential.

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Old
09-09-2009, 12:20 PM
  #36
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Once again Marleau is going nowhere. At the end of the year, Marleau is most likely going to get a Franzen type deal with a limited cap hit and secures him in SJ for the rest of his career. Many people on the East Coast who don't get to watch the Sharks don't know that he is a premier 2 way forward.

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Old
09-09-2009, 12:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
I'm operating under the assumption that New Jersey is interested in picking up Marleau (and are willing to pay fair value for him). Whether or not that is the case can certainly be debated, and I don't pretend to have any sort of inside information, but for the purposes of this thread and my trade proposal, thats the assumption I'm making. If thats the case, you'd also need to assume New Jersey felt they could re-sign him, otherwise he is not worth the assets it would take to acquire him. You have to understand that to San Jose, Marleau has more value than just a one year rental. In order to acquire him you need to pay more than you would for just a one year rental, you need to pay full value for a first line centre. Also, don't underestimate the value of an expiring contract with a looming cap drop.
I get what you're saying, but I don't believe if there were some serious discussions about this deal that it had anything to do with the Devils making the Sharks happy, it was about the Devils getting Marleau, Sharks getting Heatly and the Devils putting together a package that satisfied the Sens, with the Sharks adding something to the Sens pot.

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Old
09-09-2009, 12:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
I get what you're saying, but I don't believe if there were some serious discussions about this deal that it had anything to do with the Devils making the Sharks happy, it was about the Devils getting Marleau, Sharks getting Heatly and the Devils putting together a package that satisfied the Sens, with the Sharks adding something to the Sens pot.
The way i interpreted the rumour was more that New Jersey would be involved for their cap space, and their need for a top 6 centre, which makes them potentially a good fit to acquire Marleau. They could perhaps provide most of the assets to satisfy Ottawa, but I don't see why its absolutely necessary. If you wanna go down that path though, Ottawa's needs would be a top 6 forward, preferably left wing, and good forward prospects. Can you think of anything New Jersey could offer? As well, how you'd expect the trade to turn out aside, what did you think of my initial proposal?

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09-09-2009, 01:03 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
The way i interpreted the rumour was more that New Jersey would be involved for their cap space, and their need for a top 6 centre, which makes them potentially a good fit to acquire Marleau. They could perhaps provide most of the assets to satisfy Ottawa, but I don't see why its absolutely necessary. If you wanna go down that path though, Ottawa's needs would be a top 6 forward, preferably left wing, and good forward prospects. Can you think of anything New Jersey could offer? As well, how you'd expect the trade to turn out aside, what did you think of my initial proposal?
Like the other Devils fans who chimed in, I can't see NJ giving up Josefson. He's not a blue chip prospect but the team has been working hard to rebuild their meager farm system and Marleau would be a rental. He's fantastic rental, but teams need to generate a constant supply of cheap top six forwards and the Devils don't have a much depth.

IMHO, Marleau isn't going anywhere before the trade deadline. Teams will give up more at the deadline when the team's needs and playoff chances are apparent. Even then I think a young team with a surplus of prospects would make a better trade partner for SJ (ala the Atlanta Forsberg deal).

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09-09-2009, 01:05 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
The way i interpreted the rumour was more that New Jersey would be involved for their cap space, and their need for a top 6 centre, which makes them potentially a good fit to acquire Marleau. They could perhaps provide most of the assets to satisfy Ottawa, but I don't see why its absolutely necessary. If you wanna go down that path though, Ottawa's needs would be a top 6 forward, preferably left wing, and good forward prospects. Can you think of anything New Jersey could offer? As well, how you'd expect the trade to turn out aside, what did you think of my initial proposal?
Your trade proposal would be more between the Sharks and Devils, don't you think? And for the Devils to trade their furture top 2 center who they just drafted, they would have to sign Marleau to an extension or it's to much of a gamble. Also, I don't see Wilson right now moving Marleau unless he get's Heatly. I think Wilson sees Heatly at least scoring 50, if not 60 playing with Big Joe.

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09-09-2009, 01:10 PM
  #41
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When was the last time in the NHL there was a 3 way trade? Just wondering

Also, Everson to me is the same as Brooks just slightly better than Eklund but all rumors left and right ....how many hits did each of them generate on this one .



I will retract this if this came through but I do not think I have to worry

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09-09-2009, 01:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
When was the last time in the NHL there was a 3 way trade? Just wondering

Also, Everson to me is the same as Brooks just slightly better than Eklund but all rumors left and right ....how many hits did each of them generate on this one .



I will retract this if this came through but I do not think I have to worry
Do we have anything better to do than play GM, with camp about a week away?

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Old
09-09-2009, 01:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Guttersnipe View Post
Like the other Devils fans who chimed in, I can't see NJ giving up Josefson. He's not a blue chip prospect but the team has been working hard to rebuild their meager farm system and Marleau would be a rental. He's fantastic rental, but teams need to generate a constant supply of cheap top six forwards and the Devils don't have a much depth.

IMHO, Marleau isn't going anywhere before the trade deadline. Teams will give up more at the deadline when the team's needs and playoff chances are apparent. Even then I think a young team with a surplus of prospects would make a better trade partner for SJ (ala the Atlanta Forsberg deal).
Thanks for the response, as a Sens fan I've always had a healthy respect for the Devils and their fans, you guys are one of the more level-headed and knowledgeable fanbases around. I think if Lou wanted to acquire Marleau, he wouldn't see him as a rental and would have every intention of re-signing him, but whether or not that's feasible is another debate. I agree with you though that acquiring Marleau doesn't make much sense for New Jersey, I was just figuring if the rumours are true and NJ really does want him, that might be a trade where everyone is happy.

I don't see Marleau as a deadline pick up though, unless San Jose has a god awful season, which is highly unlikely. More likely than not San Jose will be right in the thick of things again and trading away one of their best players for prospects is a move that just wouldn't make sense. If Marleau is to be moved i suspect it'll happen sometime in training camp, in a trade that addresses team needs right now.

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09-09-2009, 01:33 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Tedenby won't be moved, neither will Josefson. There's no way we'd give up our top prospects for a year of Marleau.
So what would NJ be offering then?? The 1st is definitely involved but what other pieces would they give up? Those are you top two prospects unless your thinking someone like Bergfors or Cormier?

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09-09-2009, 01:35 PM
  #45
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Your trade proposal would be more between the Sharks and Devils, don't you think? And for the Devils to trade their furture top 2 center who they just drafted, they would have to sign Marleau to an extension or it's to much of a gamble. Also, I don't see Wilson right now moving Marleau unless he get's Heatly. I think Wilson sees Heatly at least scoring 50, if not 60 playing with Big Joe.
Well, seeing as the Sens move Heatley, I'd say we're a pretty big part of my proposal too . And if Marleau was willing to waive his no trade for New Jersey, I see no reason he wouldn't be willing to re-sign their afterwards as well.

And personally, I don't think Wilson has any intentions of paying fair value for Heatley. I think he understands that one of the most undervalued assets in the league today are star players (ironically), and has done very well for himself building a core around two steals when he acquired Thornton and Boyle. He also understands the most overrated assets are prospects/picks/young players, feeling no hesitation to include the likes of Brad Stuart, Steve Bernier, Matt Carle, Ty Wishart and several first rounders into those deals. I suspect Wilson knows he's lowballed Murray in his trade negotiations, but he's only interested in picking him up if he can pull off another heist. Luckily for us Sens fans, Murray isn't biting.

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09-09-2009, 05:54 PM
  #46
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1st line center who will bolt back to SJ the following off-season even if he doesn't the devils dont have 6+ to spend to keep him. Josefson is being fast tracked to the NHL and should be a devils for 10-11. Within NJ Josefson is UNTOUCHABLE unless we get such a vast overpayment its impossible to say no too.
Now I'm a big Josefson fan and think he will almost certainly be a good player for us in the future, but what gives you the impression that Lou & co. would go against their typical playbook and "fast track" him to the NHL? Or that he will be ready within one year of being drafted?

I agree that he is nearly untouchable given his position and skillset, but your reasoning is pure speculation.

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09-09-2009, 06:03 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by brit View Post
Give up Josefson and a consumate team member for one year of Marleau?

Yeccccccccccccch.
What? Are you serious?

Give up a completely unproven prospect who may never play a game in the NHL and a nothing-special defenseman for a near PPG two-way forward at the NHL level?

If I were the GM I would do that in a heartbeat

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09-09-2009, 06:14 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
When was the last time in the NHL there was a 3 way trade? Just wondering

Also, Everson to me is the same as Brooks just slightly better than Eklund but all rumors left and right ....how many hits did each of them generate on this one .



I will retract this if this came through but I do not think I have to worry
This past trade deadline. Cole, O'Sullivan, Williams I believe

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09-09-2009, 06:17 PM
  #49
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What? Are you serious?

Give up a completely unproven prospect who may never play a game in the NHL and a nothing-special defenseman for a near PPG two-way forward at the NHL level?

If I were the GM I would do that in a heartbeat
To get Marleau for one year? Why on earth would the Devils give up Josefson who's game has been compared to Zetterberg to recieve Marleau for one year. Even if Marleau didn't bolt after a year, the Devils wouldn't have cap space to sign him

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09-09-2009, 09:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Nocashstyle View Post
To get Marleau for one year? Why on earth would the Devils give up Josefson who's game has been compared to Zetterberg to recieve Marleau for one year. Even if Marleau didn't bolt after a year, the Devils wouldn't have cap space to sign him
dot.
If Marleau can promise us to resign after this year and for a relatively cheap cap hit I would be comfortable with giving up Josefson. But for half a year? and its not like Marleau wins us the stanley cup. Great player and would LOVE to have him but we cant give up Josefson for a rental.

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