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Kaberle : Comfort over achievement

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Old
09-11-2009, 10:29 AM
  #26
Joey Hoser
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For the love of god, if you hate him so much stop giving him more attention. You know he's been sitting around refreshing the forums repeatedly, waiting for this exact thread to be made.

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09-11-2009, 10:41 AM
  #27
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Article wasn't even good, just stating the obvious things that we make fun of toronto for anyway.

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09-11-2009, 10:47 AM
  #28
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I'm confused, and have been for some time, how people like Berger claim that jumping ship to a winning team, instead of attempting to make your team into a winner, is a lack of competetiveness. The Halladay example is poor because the Jays aren't willing to spend the money to compete. The Leafs are. If Halladay thought the Jays would match Boston or the Yankee's payroll this year, he'd be more inclined to stay.

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Old
09-11-2009, 11:10 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
For the love of god, if you hate him so much stop giving him more attention. You know he's been sitting around refreshing the forums repeatedly, waiting for this exact thread to be made.
Really?

Howard's ugly and stupid and he smells bad.

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Old
09-11-2009, 11:27 AM
  #30
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Guess in the early 90's the wings should of traded Yzerman, imagine the success he could of had?

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09-11-2009, 11:53 AM
  #31
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Totally disagree with the Bergermeister.

Burke could have traded Kaberle but realized how important he could be for the team as it becomes a contender. Plus, with Kaberle motivated to play for the Leafs, he will likely take less than his fair market value (as he arguably did under his current contract), which will be important in future years as a contending Leaf team approaches the salary cap.

I think its time to sign him long-term at a discounted rate rather than trade him.

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09-11-2009, 12:10 PM
  #32
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“You guys know I only want to play in Toronto,” Tomas confirmed on Thursday, when asked about enforcing the no-movement clause in his contract. “This is the best city to play in; I love it here; my family loves it, and I like my teammates also. They are great guys.”
What a piece of crap person.

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Old
09-11-2009, 12:22 PM
  #33
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I hate the point out the obvious, but the Leafs have been a disaster for a long long time. For the last 5 years, you guys have not made the playoffs, and is only now that you are getting some prospects, most of which were FA signings.

I think that the article has some validity, and most of Bergers articles which dump on a team that has had no (little) success over the last 30 years aren't that far off. He isn't well liked by the fans, but in reality he is calling it like it is, or at least how he sees it. Isn't that better than just gushing blue and white all the time?

Last night I streamed the 3rd period of the Rookie game, and the announcers were just lavishing praise on a team that was down 7-0. The mentioned Kadri's name more that they mentioned the name of all the senators players for the first 12 minutes of the 3rd. It took them 10 minutes to say Karlsson, and he got mentioned on other time at about the 15 minute mark. That is just the way it is in TO, and Berger is just demanding more of the Buds than the fans are.

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Old
09-11-2009, 12:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
I hate the point out the obvious, but the Leafs have been a disaster for a long long time. For the last 5 years, you guys have not made the playoffs, and is only now that you are getting some prospects, most of which were FA signings.

I think that the article has some validity, and most of Bergers articles which dump on a team that has had no (little) success over the last 30 years aren't that far off. He isn't well liked by the fans, but in reality he is calling it like it is, or at least how he sees it. Isn't that better than just gushing blue and white all the time?

Last night I streamed the 3rd period of the Rookie game, and the announcers were just lavishing praise on a team that was down 7-0. The mentioned Kadri's name more that they mentioned the name of all the senators players for the first 12 minutes of the 3rd. It took them 10 minutes to say Karlsson, and he got mentioned on other time at about the 15 minute mark. That is just the way it is in TO, and Berger is just demanding more of the Buds than the fans are.
I could barely read that last part through the mist of my tears.

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Old
09-11-2009, 12:34 PM
  #35
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
I hate the point out the obvious, but the Leafs have been a disaster for a long long time. For the last 5 years, you guys have not made the playoffs, and is only now that you are getting some prospects, most of which were FA signings.

I think that the article has some validity, and most of Bergers articles which dump on a team that has had no (little) success over the last 30 years aren't that far off. He isn't well liked by the fans, but in reality he is calling it like it is, or at least how he sees it. Isn't that better than just gushing blue and white all the time?

Last night I streamed the 3rd period of the Rookie game, and the announcers were just lavishing praise on a team that was down 7-0. The mentioned Kadri's name more that they mentioned the name of all the senators players for the first 12 minutes of the 3rd. It took them 10 minutes to say Karlsson, and he got mentioned on other time at about the 15 minute mark. That is just the way it is in TO, and Berger is just demanding more of the Buds than the fans are.
I don't think anyone is going to argue about the fact that there is a lot to complain about when it comes to the Leafs, but Berger has made a career of using twisted logic and just finding ways to bash the Leafs and their fans to attract attention. This isn't just about him saying bad things about the Leafs and the fans crying about it, it goes quite a bit deeper than that, and it's his doing.

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Old
09-11-2009, 12:35 PM
  #36
Newfie John
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Kaberle hasn't refused to waive his NTC since the Muskoka 5 ordeal. In fact, Kaberle hinted that if he were to be asked to waive his NTC at the last deadline, he'd probably waive it. IIRC, his words were "if they don't want me, I won't stay", paraphrasing of course.

The reality is that Burke has not consummated a deal involving Kaberle since he was hired, so Kaberle has not been put in a position to refute a trade.

A nice pile of crap from Berger if you ask me. But hey, he got us to read it, so he wins.

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Old
09-11-2009, 01:01 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I'm confused, and have been for some time, how people like Berger claim that jumping ship to a winning team, instead of attempting to make your team into a winner, is a lack of competetiveness. The Halladay example is poor because the Jays aren't willing to spend the money to compete. The Leafs are. If Halladay thought the Jays would match Boston or the Yankee's payroll this year, he'd be more inclined to stay.
Run Tomas Run!

Only a loser would not run away from a difficult challenge to something much much easier.

btw I hope Burke is serious about keeping Kaberle. Trade him now or not at all.

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Old
09-11-2009, 01:06 PM
  #38
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though the Big Swede technically owed the Leafs nothing after years of exceptional toil.
this **** drives me crazy, what is technical about this exactly? to what technicality does he refer here? technically and literally are words that people just should not be allowed to use, they cannot be trusted to.

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Old
09-11-2009, 02:02 PM
  #39
mikeo1
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Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
I hate the point out the obvious, but the Leafs have been a disaster for a long long time. For the last 5 years, you guys have not made the playoffs, and is only now that you are getting some prospects, most of which were FA signings.

I think that the article has some validity, and most of Bergers articles which dump on a team that has had no (little) success over the last 30 years aren't that far off. He isn't well liked by the fans, but in reality he is calling it like it is, or at least how he sees it. Isn't that better than just gushing blue and white all the time?

Last night I streamed the 3rd period of the Rookie game, and the announcers were just lavishing praise on a team that was down 7-0. The mentioned Kadri's name more that they mentioned the name of all the senators players for the first 12 minutes of the 3rd. It took them 10 minutes to say Karlsson, and he got mentioned on other time at about the 15 minute mark. That is just the way it is in TO, and Berger is just demanding more of the Buds than the fans are.
Bleh. Typical whining about the Toronto-dominated media by someone with a clear inferiority complex.

Are you really comparing a columnist/blogger to a play by play announcer? What team has announcers that are anywhere near as critical as those in the written media? These guys are paid to provide energy, not to be whiny little trolls like Berger. Heck, what you're saying isn't even true. I distinctly recall the announcers declaring last nights game to be an "absolutely terrible" and "embarrassing" effort by the young Leafs.

You really have no clue about the media situation in Toronto if you think they do nothing but lavish praise on the Maple Leafs. Pick up a copy of the Star, the Globe and Mail, or the Sun.

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and Berger is just demanding more of the Buds than the fans are.
What does this even mean? How do you know what the fans are demanding? What is Berger even demanding? The guy does nothing but publish hit and run pieces on the players and fans.


Last edited by mikeo1: 09-11-2009 at 02:08 PM.
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Old
09-11-2009, 02:07 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Kaberle hasn't refused to waive his NTC since the Muskoka 5 ordeal. In fact, Kaberle hinted that if he were to be asked to waive his NTC at the last deadline, he'd probably waive it. IIRC, his words were "if they don't want me, I won't stay", paraphrasing of course.

The reality is that Burke has not consummated a deal involving Kaberle since he was hired, so Kaberle has not been put in a position to refute a trade.

A nice pile of crap from Berger if you ask me. But hey, he got us to read it, so he wins.
Of course he said that last season because it actually benefited him this time around. When it didn't during the muskoka fiasco he nixed the Carter deal.

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Old
09-11-2009, 02:31 PM
  #41
Newfie John
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Originally Posted by LTL View Post
Of course he said that last season because it actually benefited him this time around. When it didn't during the muskoka fiasco he nixed the Carter deal.
I think the main reason he nixed the Carter deal was because Sundin sat them all down. In that group discussion they decided as a whole that no one would waive, because they thought they could make the playoffs. I don't think Kaberle was thinking individually at this time, he did not want to look like a backstabber to the other four.

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09-11-2009, 02:44 PM
  #42
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Article wasn't even good, just stating the obvious things that we make fun of toronto for anyway.
"we make fun of" who is we? you from british columbia?

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Old
09-11-2009, 03:28 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
Bleh. Typical whining about the Toronto-dominated media by someone with a clear inferiority complex.

Are you really comparing a columnist/blogger to a play by play announcer? What team has announcers that are anywhere near as critical as those in the written media? These guys are paid to provide energy, not to be whiny little trolls like Berger. Heck, what you're saying isn't even true. I distinctly recall the announcers declaring last nights game to be an "absolutely terrible" and "embarrassing" effort by the young Leafs.

You really have no clue about the media situation in Toronto if you think they do nothing but lavish praise on the Maple Leafs. Pick up a copy of the Star, the Globe and Mail, or the Sun.


What does this even mean? How do you know what the fans are demanding? What is Berger even demanding? The guy does nothing but publish hit and run pieces on the players and fans.
The cheap shot was pretty pathetic, but not unexpected I suppose.

What I was doing was pointing out that the fawning over the Leafs is pervasive. It isn't just one segment of the media, it is all segments of the media, with the exception of Berger.

Did you not notice that I watched the 3rd period? The game was gone already and the announcers were concentrating on Kadri, and the fact that the Leafs were finally showing some jump. I didn't see the first two periods, where perhaps the announcers were more negative in their comments.

I have also gone through all 4 playoff series where Toronto won vs Ottawa, the homerism was pathetic, and the CBS is a National service, not a Toronto service. The whole point being that since the media is trying to make a buck, they cater to the biggest population, this catering also makes the typical Toronto fans pretty much blind to the other teams, again, not unexpected.

What Berger is doing is just showing the ugly underbelly of the Leafs, and this is hard to swallow for typical Leaf fans who are being sold the glorious Maple Leafs by everybody else. It is where the money lies.

What do I mean by being more demanding? The Leafs have not had a playoff game in 6 years now (next will likely be in 2011). Why is that? They were selling their future for their present, and they did it far too long. Appease the fans is what they did. I think Burkie has them pointed in the right direction finally, but don't think the Parade will be any time soon.

This is just pointing out the obvious, it isn't anything new. If you have never lived outside of Toronto, you wouldn't even notice this phenomena.

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09-11-2009, 03:36 PM
  #44
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CBC is a National Channel and the broadcasters are Buffalo and Habs fans.

As for the rest, Berger has struggled to piece together strong articles for some time. This is obvious when he is contradicting himself as time goes on. The trading of picks appeased some, angered others. You, like Berger, have created a single Leaf fan to represent everyone in "Leafs Nation" ignoring the diversity of opinions within it. The common theme is that they want the Leafs to do well, aside from that there are many differing opinions that seem to be overlooked by Berger and yourself.

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Old
09-11-2009, 03:54 PM
  #45
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Or you could simply applaud Kaberle for his loyalty and understanding that playing in a city where hockey matters counts for something. Is getting to the semi finals in a city like Atlanta where no one cares better? Maybe he's drinking the cool aid and sees better things on the horizon. If the Leafs ever win a Cup again, the players on that team will own the city for the rest of their lives.

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Old
09-11-2009, 03:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
What I was doing was pointing out that the fawning over the Leafs is pervasive. It isn't just one segment of the media, it is all segments of the media, with the exception of Berger.
And if you had ever resided in Toronto, you would know that is simply not true. Not even close. Berger is just the dumbest in a sea of critical voices. Turn on the radio, read the paper.

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Did you not notice that I watched the 3rd period? The game was gone already and the announcers were concentrating on Kadri, and the fact that the Leafs were finally showing some jump. I didn't see the first two periods, where perhaps the announcers were more negative in their comments.
So what? It was a Toronto area channel. Do Ottawa announcers not focus on the Senators?

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I have also gone through all 4 playoff series where Toronto won vs Ottawa, the homerism was pathetic, and the CBS is a National service, not a Toronto service. The whole point being that since the media is trying to make a buck, they cater to the biggest population, this catering also makes the typical Toronto fans pretty much blind to the other teams, again, not unexpected.
Who cares if Toronto fans ignore other teams?

Most in the media picked Ottawa to beat Toronto in 2001, and yet we still get this myth that there was rampant homerism from Ottawa fans. Toronto outplayed Ottawa in all 4 series, which seems like a pretty good explanation for why the play-by-play announcers (who, again, are not a fair comparison for Berger) seemed to be more enthusiastic about the Leafs.

Also, this certainly doesn't sound anything like your original point (that Berger is providing us with a service neglected by the rest of the media).

Quote:
What Berger is doing is just showing the ugly underbelly of the Leafs, and this is hard to swallow for typical Leaf fans who are being sold the glorious Maple Leafs by everybody else. It is where the money lies.
Bring out the examples of "everybody else". Name me the columnists or radio hosts that you believe are nothing but cheerleaders for MLSE.

What underbelly has Berger exposed in this article, or the articles where he calls Leaf fans morons? Berger himself seems aware that there is no real quality to his writing, which is why he resorts to pieces that only serve to get a rise out of people. Its the only way he can get hits.

Quote:
What do I mean by being more demanding? The Leafs have not had a playoff game in 6 years now (next will likely be in 2011). Why is that? They were selling their future for their present, and they did it far too long. Appease the fans is what they did. I think Burkie has them pointed in the right direction finally, but don't think the Parade will be any time soon.
You just dodged the question. How does this mean that Berger demands from the Leafs than fans? I don't expect a real answer from you, because I know it was just an empty and meaningless statement you tacked onto the end of your post.


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Old
09-11-2009, 03:59 PM
  #47
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I started reading this article with no strong opinion one way or the other, really just killing time until it stopped raining at the US Open. I haven't read Berger much, seen him interviewed maybe a half dozen times. But as I read the article, I got more and more pissed off at the son of a *****. What a ****ing piece of character assassination, all couched in the most reasonable, most genteel terms. I wish Berger would use the argument against his own sorry ass and go practice his trade far, far away, New Zealand or further. What a ****** bag.

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