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The Michael F'in Nylander Thread (Headed to Dynamo Minsk?)

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11-09-2009, 12:16 PM
  #726
pgreene
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
This looks like the language, somewhat vague as to exactly when the player must be consulted. It says the NMC prevents involuntary relocation through waivers, but not necessarily that he can't be placed on waivers first. He might weigh in after a team puts in a claim. Shrug. It seems vague.

From Article 11.8:

(a) The SPC of any player who is a Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agent under Article 10.1(a) may contain a no-Trade or a no-move clause. SPCs containing a no-Trade or a no-move clause may be entered into prior to the time that the Player is a Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agent so long as the SPC containing the no-Trade or no-move clause extends through and does not become effective until the time that the player qualifies for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency. If the player is traded or claimed on Waivers prior to the no-Trade or no-move clause taking effect, the clause does not bind the acquiring Club. An acquiring Club may agree to continue to be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof.

(b) A no-move clause may prevent the involuntary relocation of a player, whether by Trade, Loan or Waiver claim. A no-move clause, however, may not restrict the Club's buy-out and termination rights as set forth in this Agreement. Prior to exercising its Ordinary Course Buy-Out rights pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC hereof, the Club shall, in writing in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, provide the Player with the option of electing to be placed on Waivers. The Player will have twenty-four (24) hours from the time he receives such notice to accept or reject that option at his sole discretion, and shall so inform the Club in writing, in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, within such twenty-four (24) hour period. If the Player does not timely accept or reject that option, it will be deemed rejected.
yes, but an assignment is not a trade, loan or waiver claim. it's a distinct sort of situation NOT allowed to be barred by a NMC, according to the provisions of the CBA you site. it's presumed (in my legal mind, anyway) to be taken care of by the barring of a waiver claim, since a player with an NMC would presumably have to pass through waivers in order to be assigned. there's nothing in the CBA that prevents him from being assigned to hershey once he's waived his NMC at least as far as subjecting himself to a waiver claim goes.

unless of course "assignment" and "loan" are the same thing.

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11-09-2009, 12:16 PM
  #727
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I think even with being assigned to Hershey the cap hit is still there but I'm not sure on that one. He needs to be traded to another team or loaned out to Europe to remove the cap hit.

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11-09-2009, 12:17 PM
  #728
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"one step closer"

AMEN.

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11-09-2009, 12:19 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Funkyalligator View Post
I think even with being assigned to Hershey the cap hit is still there but I'm not sure on that one. He needs to be traded to another team or loaned out to Europe to remove the cap hit.
No, with the assignment to Hershey, the cap hit disappears. Since he is on a one-way contract, though, the team still pays him his $5.5M salary this year, and presumably the $3M salary next year, but he is not on the cap.

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11-09-2009, 12:22 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
yes, but an assignment is not a trade, loan or waiver claim. it's a distinct sort of situation NOT allowed to be barred by a NMC, according to the provisions of the CBA you site. it's presumed (in my legal mind, anyway) to be taken care of by the barring of a waiver claim, since a player with an NMC would presumably have to pass through waivers in order to be assigned. there's nothing in the CBA that prevents him from being assigned to hershey once he's waived his NMC at least as far as subjecting himself to a waiver claim goes.

unless of course "assignment" and "loan" are the same thing.
Really? You think he waives the NMC once, and then all subsequent moves are covered by that waiver? I thought he either has to agree to waivers and again to the assignment, or that he does not need to be consulted to go on waivers but does need to be consulted for the assignment.

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11-09-2009, 12:22 PM
  #731
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Quote:
cmasisak22

GMGM on 92 not practicing anymore: "Some decisions have been made, but as I said, I'd rather elaborate on it tomorrow."
Quote:
More GMGM speak on 92: "Some things are going on" and "I would expect to have something to talk about tomorrrow."
The wait continues....

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11-09-2009, 12:25 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Funkyalligator View Post
I think even with being assigned to Hershey the cap hit is still there but I'm not sure on that one. He needs to be traded to another team or loaned out to Europe to remove the cap hit.
no.

if a player is put through waivers to be assigned, or a waiver exempt player assigned to a minor league team, their cap hit no longer applies to parent club.

taking nylander's NMC deal out of the mix, for the sake of this example, being assigned to hershey would erase 100% of his cap hit on the caps roster.

teddy would still pay him, and pay him his full salary, but it doesnt affect the caps.

philly and nj have done this to players over the past couple years, most recently it was randy jones in philly.

theres a slight difference when players are on two-way deals. those get paid X amount if up here, Y amount ( less ) if in the minors.

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11-09-2009, 12:29 PM
  #733
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We don't really know his status at the moment, but clearing waivers doesn't remove him from the books, by the way I interpret the rules. Judges?
Right. My reading of the player's optional placement on waivers is that was only in the case of unconditional waivers as part of the buyout process.

If he accepts an assignment (which to my understanding is the same as a loan) to Grand Rapids/AHL then his cap hit would be gone. They'd still pay him but the cap hit would be gone.

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11-09-2009, 12:30 PM
  #734
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Really? You think he waives the NMC once, and then all subsequent moves are covered by that waiver? I thought he either has to agree to waivers and again to the assignment, or that he does not need to be consulted to go on waivers but does need to be consulted for the assignment.
i'm just saying "assignment" isn't covered in there, but loan/trade/waiver claim are. based on that language, a NMC cannot be used to prevent an assignment, provided the player has first waived the NMC to allow himself to be subjected to waiver claims. a NMC CAN still be used to block a trade or a loan, even after the player waives his NMC as to waiver claims, because those things are specifically enumerated in the CBA as covered under NMCs. assuming "assignment" and "loan" are two distinct concepts, and assuming these sections are all the CBA says about it, that language absolutely allows the caps to assign nylander to hershey once he clears waivers (since he waived his NMC to allow himself to be subjected to waiver claims).

again, understand i'm only looking at the language, and i'm reading it in a vacuum, which isn't a good way to begin a sound legal analysis. i feel fairly certain that, even if i'm right, the team would have a side agreement in place, because presumably he would have to waive his NMC as to loans as well (and as far as we know to date, he has not) to get sent overseas. he probably conditionally agreed to waive his NMC to allow himself to pass through waivers, with the caveat that if the loan didn't pan out, they would not assign him to the minors.

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11-09-2009, 12:35 PM
  #735
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I would think they covered 'assignment' with the 'involuntary relocation' language, no?

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11-09-2009, 12:35 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
yes, but an assignment is not a trade, loan or waiver claim. it's a distinct sort of situation NOT allowed to be barred by a NMC, according to the provisions of the CBA you site. it's presumed (in my legal mind, anyway) to be taken care of by the barring of a waiver claim, since a player with an NMC would presumably have to pass through waivers in order to be assigned. there's nothing in the CBA that prevents him from being assigned to hershey once he's waived his NMC at least as far as subjecting himself to a waiver claim goes.

unless of course "assignment" and "loan" are the same thing.
Yeah, I think assignments are probably contemplated by the term "loan". First off, I am not sure what other action would constitute a "loan". This isn't European soccer. You can't loan a player to another team in the league. However, a player is loaned to the AHL in the sense that they remain under contract with the NHL team and can be recalled at the discretion of the NHL team at any time. In any event, the definition of "no movement" is "prevent the involuntary relocation of a player". Being assigned to the AHL is clearly a "relocation", IMO. It has to be covered one way or another.

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11-09-2009, 12:37 PM
  #737
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For the love of god stop bumping this post and getting me all excited!

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Old
11-09-2009, 12:37 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
i'm just saying "assignment" isn't covered in there, but loan/trade/waiver claim are. based on that language, a NMC cannot be used to prevent an assignment, provided the player has first waived the NMC to allow himself to be subjected to waiver claims. a NMC CAN still be used to block a trade or a loan, even after the player waives his NMC as to waiver claims, because those things are specifically enumerated in the CBA as covered under NMCs. assuming "assignment" and "loan" are two distinct concepts, and assuming these sections are all the CBA says about it, that language absolutely allows the caps to assign nylander to hershey once he clears waivers (since he waived his NMC to allow himself to be subjected to waiver claims).

again, understand i'm only looking at the language, and i'm reading it in a vacuum, which isn't a good way to begin a sound legal analysis. i feel fairly certain that, even if i'm right, the team would have a side agreement in place, because presumably he would have to waive his NMC as to loans as well (and as far as we know to date, he has not) to get sent overseas. he probably conditionally agreed to waive his NMC to allow himself to pass through waivers, with the caveat that if the loan didn't pan out, they would not assign him to the minors.
Check out the definitions section.

Quote:
"Loan" means the transfer of a player from a Club's Active Roster, Non-Roster, Injured Non-Roster, or Injured Reserve List to the roster of a club outside the NHL

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Old
11-09-2009, 12:38 PM
  #739
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Really? You think he waives the NMC once, and then all subsequent moves are covered by that waiver? I thought he either has to agree to waivers and again to the assignment, or that he does not need to be consulted to go on waivers but does need to be consulted for the assignment.
That is indeed the question..
Based on that quoted passage, I think that the player has to be consulted at every step -- both to be put on waivers, and to be assigned or loaned somewhere.

If that's the case, Nylander is in purgatory. He is cut off from the Caps because they won't bring him up on re-entry, but he can prevent assignment anywhere else. So now he doesn't even have to practice to collect his money.

Question, if a player traded after clearing waivers, would the buyer team have to put him up for re-entry? If that's the case, trades are out of the question -- I'm talking about those where Caps send some prospect along with Nyls to soften the blow.

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11-09-2009, 12:39 PM
  #740
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Lawyers.


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Old
11-09-2009, 12:40 PM
  #741
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Actually, he is not subject to re-entry yet, because he was never assigned. They waived him, but they have not yet assigned him to Hershey (a move I would have expected him to block anyway, provided the NMC gives him that power at this point in time).

Re-entry is not merely being waived twice. A player is subject to re-entry waivers after he is waived, assigned to the minors, and then re-called on re-entry waivers.

I think. Lawyers, indeed.

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11-09-2009, 12:41 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Check out the definitions section.
Yep. The AHL transactions page uses the term loan for all player movement between the AHL and NHL as well.

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11-09-2009, 12:42 PM
  #743
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Lawyers.

I was just about to post the same thing.

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11-09-2009, 12:44 PM
  #744
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Could they loan Nylander to Grand Rapids for the season and then the Wings call him up come playoffs time?

If a loan is technically outside of the NHL - even though the AHL is affiliated with the NHL it is NOT the NHL - not sure if that could be a loophole.

Of course, I'm widely speculating and probably dead wrong - but it's still fun to talk about Nyles leaving.

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11-09-2009, 12:46 PM
  #745
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Could they loan Nylander to Grand Rapids for the season and then the Wings call him up come playoffs time?

If a loan is technically outside of the NHL - even though the AHL is affiliated with the NHL it is NOT the NHL - not sure if that could be a loophole.

Of course, I'm widely speculating and probably dead wrong - but it's still fun to talk about Nyles leaving.
If...IF...they loan him to Grand Rapids...he's still Washington property. So the Wings would not have any claim to his services...unless of course, they had claimed him off waivers today.

Just sit tight for another day kids.

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11-09-2009, 12:48 PM
  #746
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Could they loan Nylander to Grand Rapids for the season and then the Wings call him up come playoffs time?

If a loan is technically outside of the NHL - even though the AHL is affiliated with the NHL it is NOT the NHL - not sure if that could be a loophole.

Of course, I'm widely speculating and probably dead wrong - but it's still fun to talk about Nyles leaving.
The Wings would have to acquire Nylanders rights before they recalled him, whether it be via waivers or whatever.

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11-09-2009, 12:50 PM
  #747
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OK that makes sense - looks like it's the wait and see game until tomorrow - but we've heard that before - specifically with Nylander.

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11-09-2009, 12:52 PM
  #748
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Maybe Nylander enjoyed his time in Western Michigan...

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11-09-2009, 12:52 PM
  #749
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Actually, he is not subject to re-entry yet, because he was never assigned. They waived him, but they have not yet assigned him to Hershey (a move I would have expected him to block anyway, provided the NMC gives him that power at this point in time).

Re-entry is not merely being waived twice. A player is subject to re-entry waivers after he is waived, assigned to the minors, and then re-called on re-entry waivers.

I think. Lawyers, indeed.
Ah, so if a team X places a player on waivers and he is not picked up by anyone, then this player can just continue to play for team X as if nothing happened? In other words, waiving means nothing until a claim/assignment/loan?

But then I wonder why this didn't happen sooner. If Nylander had complete veto power over destination, and thus the waive didn't in any way restrict him or the Caps, wouldn't it be in both parties' interest to continually put him on waiver, just throwing the hook out there in case somebody came up that Nyls would agree to go to?

It's strange -- I'm thinking the waive (of NMC player) has to have at least some irreversible effect, otherwise it's hard to see why they waited so long..

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11-09-2009, 12:54 PM
  #750
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I think that is true. Although it can rub a player the wrong way, you can place the player on waivers, and when he clears, put him right back in the lineup. So in Nylander's case, he has to report to the Caps even after clearing waivers, and there is no apparent push (today anyway) to assign him to the minors.

Of course, hurt feelings can often result from a waivers move, which many vets consider to be an insult, particularly if the whole league passes on a player.

It's more common now under the salary cap. It is also now true that a player is more attractive in a trade than on waivers, because in a trade the acquiring team sheds some of its salary cap in the exchange. The cap makes it all exceedingly complicated.

As for why the Caps did not do this sooner, this again speaks to the uncertainty (on my part, anyway; I don't want to speak for anyone else) as to when exactly the player's NMC goes into effect, whether a single waiver is a blanket waiver, or whether the player has the right to waive moves at several stages. I simply don't know.

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