The player in many cases is always going to want to play. Especially at the beginning of the season, when there's a lot of buzz and excitement at camp, it's very easy for a player to rush themselves a week or two too early.
Souray basically said that's exactly what he did in 07-08. Our training staff has a dubious track record as far as I'm concerned (including letting Hemsky play the rest of a Nashville game where he cleary had a concussion and allowing Stoll to come back early from a concussion as well).
our training staff has a dubious record? Can you provide a link?
Any quotes from players questioning the qualifications? Anyone at all besides members of the esteemed oilers fanhood? Can you show me your qualifications as a doctor or a trainer? Surely you have the medical records of the players?
This urban myth keeps on being perpetrated but frankly I have never read anything from a player, an agent or anyone qualified questioning their merits!
Sorry but you do not have evidence, qualifications or enough information to be able to provide an educated opinion.
Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 09-14-2009 at 08:48 AM.
our training staff has a dubious record? Can you provide a link?
Any quotes from players questioning the qualifications? Anyone at all besides members of the esteemed oilers fanhood? Can you show me your qualifications as a doctor or a trainer? Surely you have the medical records of the players?
This urban myth keeps on being perpetrated but frankly I have never read anything from a player, an agent or anyone qualified questioning their merits!
You don't need a link, I provided legit examples.
If Tootoo had hit Hemsky again during that game versus Nashville, that could've been curtains for Hemsky's career.
There was the on going debacle with Moreau's foot too as someone else mentioned.
You're telling me Jarret Stoll should've been playing 4 or 5 games or whatever it was after his concussion? The results speak for themselves, I don't think he's ever been the same player since.
Yes, the training staff has some culpability in these situations, whether you want to admit it or not.
If Tootoo had hit Hemsky again during that game versus Nashville, that could've been curtains for Hemsky's career.
There was the on going debacle with Moreau's foot too as someone else mentioned.
You're telling me Jarret Stoll should've been playing 4 or 5 games or whatever it was after his concussion? The results speak for themselves, I don't think he's ever been the same player since.
Yes, the training staff has some culpability in these situations, whether you want to admit it or not.
That's the most dubious act of them all...there was absolutely no reason Stoll should've been back in the lineup that quickly. Concussions, although common, are still serious. Sometimes, all it takes is one to end someone's career. If anything, the first concussion is a catalyst for more to occur, and it's all downhill from there (see: Lindros, Eric).
That's the most dubious act of them all...there was absolutely no reason Stoll should've been back in the lineup that quickly. Concussions, although common, are still serious. Sometimes, all it takes is one to end someone's career. If anything, the first concussion is a catalyst for more to occur, and it's all downhill from there (see: Lindros, Eric).
I personally think Mac T's coaching and his relentless philosophy of short-term thinking in trying to scrape into the playoffs puts pressure on the training staff to turn a blind eye to some things IMO.
If Tootoo had hit Hemsky again during that game versus Nashville, that could've been curtains for Hemsky's career.
There was the on going debacle with Moreau's foot too as someone else mentioned.
You're telling me Jarret Stoll should've been playing 4 or 5 games or whatever it was after his concussion? The results speak for themselves, I don't think he's ever been the same player since.
Yes, the training staff has some culpability in these situations, whether you want to admit it or not.
In both Stoll's and Hemsky's case, there are a couple of things you can do in regards to a concussion to check for it, but the biggest thing is the answers the players give you. If they aren't honest (or if they don't feel the symptoms), your diagnosis is going to be wrong.
If Tootoo had hit Hemsky again during that game versus Nashville, that could've been curtains for Hemsky's career.
There was the on going debacle with Moreau's foot too as someone else mentioned.
You're telling me Jarret Stoll should've been playing 4 or 5 games or whatever it was after his concussion? The results speak for themselves, I don't think he's ever been the same player since.
Yes, the training staff has some culpability in these situations, whether you want to admit it or not.
Really so you a know for a fact that none of these players have their own doctor's? So you would be willing to present your evidence to the board of inquiry??
The answer is obviously no. Frankly the people on this message board do not know anything because none of you have access to the medical files!!
Really so you a know for a fact that none of these players have their own doctor's? So you would be willing to present your evidence to the board of inquiry??
The answer is obviously no. Frankly the people on this message board do not know anything because none of you have access to the medical files!!
I'm not even sure honestly what point you're arguing here.
We have a training staff. The JOB of the training staff is to make sure in part that player's are not playing when they should be resting/healing.
Clearly there are a number of cases here in Edmonton where something has gone wrong in that regard.
Souray said straight up in a recent interview he wasn't completely healthy to start the 07-08 season and we got burned for it like 5 or 6 games into the season when he reinjured the same shoulder. And the aforementioned Hemsky (which could've been disasterous), Stoll, and Moreau situations too.
I expect better from the training staff than that, sorry if you don't. There is something wrong when players are given the greenlight to play when they should not be playing and are risking career/season altering injuries in the process.
I am not qualified as a physician or trainer? I have not seen the medical records of any NHL player? I have no idea how many doctors still saw (or any other player?).
No one else has access to enough information to able to condemn anyone.
I am not qualified as a physician or trainer? I have not seen the medical records of any NHL player? I have no idea how many doctors still saw (or any other player?).
No one else has access to enough information to able to condemn anyone.
Yes you do have enough information.
Jarrett Stoll is not information enough?
Ales Hemsky was allowed to play an entire game (where he could've easily been hammered again) before the training staff realized how serious his concussion was and kept him out of the lineup.
I'm sorry ... that doesn't inspire much confidence in me and I'm not interested in excuses for why it happened. The fact is it did happen, and that's not good enough as a training staff.
They better make sure Vish is *really* healthy before letting him play full contact games (pre-season or regular season or whatever).
Souray said straight up in a recent interview he wasn't completely healthy to start the 07-08 season and we got burned for it like 5 or 6 games into the season when he reinjured the same shoulder.
Which is odd, considering when the Oilers signed him, he assured everyone he was completely healthy and ready to go.
I'm not even sure honestly what point you're arguing here.
We have a training staff. The JOB of the training staff is to make sure in part that player's are not playing when they should be resting/healing.
Clearly there are a number of cases here in Edmonton where something has gone wrong in that regard.
Souray said straight up in a recent interview he wasn't completely healthy to start the 07-08 season and we got burned for it like 5 or 6 games into the season when he reinjured the same shoulder. And the aforementioned Hemsky (which could've been disasterous), Stoll, and Moreau situations too.
I expect better from the training staff than that, sorry if you don't. There is something wrong when players are given the greenlight to play when they should not be playing and are risking career/season altering injuries in the process.
Did souray say that he wasn't given medical clearance to play?? Did he say the trainers forced him to play?? Did he say it was only the oilers medical staff that he saw??
Did souray say that he wasn't given medical clearance to play?? Did he say the trainers forced him to play?? Did he say it was only the oilers medical staff that he saw??
Yes it is the JOB of the training staff to know when a player should be playing and when they should not be.
They're not there to just hand out towels dude.
What the player wants or what other doctor they see outside of the team is irrelevant. You cannot ask the player or trust the player ... some guys you could shoot them in the chest and they'd still want to play. It's the JOB of the training staff to know better and to keep a player out of the lineup in a scenario where they have a major injury that needs time to heal.
Knowing this I wonder why the team elected not to bring in Erhoff or a cheap fix like Foster while keeping Struds around for any other injury.
Just pointing out the lack of movement this past off-season- again. Frustrating since Erhoff is defensively better than Gilbert, but I'll let it go.
Why bring in Erhoff? So we can complain about another bloated contract? Makes zero sense. Chorney is the same type of player......so is MA Bergeron for that matter.
I'm not going to say I told anyone so, but I was one of the ones on here last spring that said he would be a long time recovering from this injury. I've had major shoulder surgury myself, so I thought I could speak from experience. I know a lot of guys on here were hoping he could make it back if the team made the playoffs last spring, but there is no way. The shoulder may heal, but it's the scar tissue, strength and mobility that are issues for some time. Typically, it's a full year for 100 % recovery. We need to be patient. I hope the Oilers will be.
Are the last 41 games worth more points than the first 41?
No but it would make more sense to have a player play 41 games at 100% than possibly the first 41 at 70% or so and then re-injure it and miss the last 41.
It's stupid that people are blaming the Oilers medical staff but no one is blaming Stoll. Stoll admitted he never let the training staff know he was having symptoms. Players need to tell the truth and Stoll never did that but the Oilers medical staff is being blamed for Stoll's stupidity.
__________________ "He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
People are assuming with their superior medical knowledge and access to medical records that they know for a fact that the medical and training staff screwed up in countless situations and are incompetent.
In reality no one in this thread knows dick all.
Basically it is easy for me to say "Stoll shouldn't have played, he got injured 4 games later". The facts speak for themselves? As a laymen I know that in concussion situations doctor's rely on patients being honest about their symptoms? Was Stoll completely honest? Like someone pointed out earlier to defend their position, players want to play they are not always honest! Who the hell knows?
Souray should not have played, he had an injury. Well he obviously played on it in Montreal. So are their medical staff idiots too?
I can come up with questions all day but the truth of the matter is that I have no facts and can only form an opinion on a few quotes, because I would have nothing else to go on.
BUT I do know that no player, agent, or medical expert have in any way questioned the Oilers medical staff, I know that they have been picked for countless international events where they have taken care of star players and no organization has questioned their selection. That speaks volumes, because if it is so obvious that they are incompetent why would OTHER teams coaches, agents, GM's etc allow them near their players especially their stars?
So in essence I call bull@#&^ that the Oilers training staff and medical staff are so obviously incompetent!
People are assuming with their superior medical knowledge and access to medical records that they know for a fact that the medical and training staff screwed up in countless situations and are incompetent.
In reality no one in this thread knows dick all.
Basically it is easy for me to say "Stoll shouldn't have played, he got injured 4 games later". The facts speak for themselves? As a laymen I know that in concussion situations doctor's rely on patients being honest about their symptoms? Was Stoll completely honest? Like someone pointed out earlier to defend their position, players want to play they are not always honest! Who the hell knows?
Souray should not have played, he had an injury. Well he obviously played on it in Montreal. So are their medical staff idiots too?
I can come up with questions all day but the truth of the matter is that I have no facts and can only form an opinion on a few quotes, because I would have nothing else to go on.
BUT I do know that no player, agent, or medical expert have in any way questioned the Oilers medical staff, I know that they have been picked for countless international events where they have taken care of star players and no organization has questioned their selection. That speaks volumes, because if it is so obvious that they are incompetent why would OTHER teams coaches, agents, GM's etc allow them near their players especially their stars?
So in essence I call bull@#&^ that the Oilers training staff and medical staff are so obviously incompetent!
Plus can't symptoms from concussions happen later like the following day or so. I know there were reports that this happened with both Gagner and Hemsky. They had no symptoms immediately after the hits but they got symptoms the following day.
People are assuming with their superior medical knowledge and access to medical records that they know for a fact that the medical and training staff screwed up in countless situations and are incompetent.
In reality no one in this thread knows dick all.
Basically it is easy for me to say "Stoll shouldn't have played, he got injured 4 games later". The facts speak for themselves? As a laymen I know that in concussion situations doctor's rely on patients being honest about their symptoms? Was Stoll completely honest? Like someone pointed out earlier to defend their position, players want to play they are not always honest! Who the hell knows?
Souray should not have played, he had an injury. Well he obviously played on it in Montreal. So are their medical staff idiots too?
I can come up with questions all day but the truth of the matter is that I have no facts and can only form an opinion on a few quotes, because I would have nothing else to go on.
BUT I do know that no player, agent, or medical expert have in any way questioned the Oilers medical staff, I know that they have been picked for countless international events where they have taken care of star players and no organization has questioned their selection. That speaks volumes, because if it is so obvious that they are incompetent why would OTHER teams coaches, agents, GM's etc allow them near their players especially their stars?
So in essence I call bull@#&^ that the Oilers training staff and medical staff are so obviously incompetent!
That is all.
