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PS #2 - 09.16.09 | NY Rangers @ NJ Devils | 7:00 PM - MSG PLUS (HD)

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Old
09-16-2009, 09:37 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Personally I am against pairing Gilroy with Staal. IMO Staal has some untapped offensive potential and having to cover for Gilroy all game will stunt its development.
Then I'd say Girardi would be the only other option...but I have a feeling that pairing would be a bit of a trainwreck at times.

I like the idea of Staal-Gilroy.

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09-16-2009, 09:37 PM
  #602
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Gilroy keeps this up, he's going to look real nice next to Staal as a dynamic puck rusher.

Del Zotto had an okay game. Kinda feel bad for him, that Gilroy is so electric it almost makes his game look simple. But I have no doubt his vision and passing will be astounding. Maybe not until next year though.

Lisin is definitely good enough to be on this team. Just hope he actually pulls through with some contribution on the board. Not good enough to just be fast.

Grachev should start off in HFD. My guess is he's a quick study, gets some weight/strength on him at the pro level, adjusted and more to the pace and skill level, and is back up mid season.

I'd like to see some more of Owens.

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09-16-2009, 09:38 PM
  #603
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Lisin is too good to sit in the press box. The sucess of grachev causes a logjam at forward. Either Grachev and potentially Anisimov start the year in Hartford or there will have to be a trade, because we can't have good player be scrathes from night to night
I'd still like to see him finish a few times before I form an opinion on the guy. He certainly has wheels, but can he put the puck in the net? Last night he whiffed on what could have been a tap in...and tonight he also failed to finish (albeit on a solid save.) Granted it's only two games, so I'll reserve judgement until I see him play a bit more. That said, at least he's had opportunities...so you know he's doing something right.

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09-16-2009, 09:38 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
If you guys are interested, my take on your kids:

Gilroy is outstanding. He's one of those guys who draws the eye to him no matter what he does with the puck, and what he does usually ends up being tremendous - mostly good, but sometimes tremendously bad as well, although that should fade somewhat with experience. I think the Brian Campbell comparison is a good one.

Del Zotto, on the other hand, what somewhat underwhelming. He's going to need some time.

I know you guys are all talking about Lisin, but to be honest, I didn't notice him all that much. I also didn't notice Grachev much unless I actually tried to notice him; he seemed strong on the puck, but I didn't see anything in his game that demands an NHL roster spot right now. I think he needs a year before he'll be a regular. I was disappointed Anisimov wasn't in the lineup because I wanted to see him play.

Parenteau would make a good depth forward, he reminds me a lot of the young kids that the Rangers have had hanging around their roster the last few years (the ones that inevitably get traded to Phoenix).

Owens scored the goal, but was otherwise pretty invisible - although the goal that was scored by that line was a very good one, for all that it was somewhat messy.

For the most part, if my eyes were drawn to a particular player in a Ranger's jersey it was either Gilroy, Prospal, or Johnson in net (who is sort of the inverse of Scott Clemmensen).
Nice to have an unbiased point of view. Nice synopsis in my opinion.

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09-16-2009, 09:39 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by jabroni1994 View Post
+2

Gilroy's offensive instincts are great; ES Goal and a SO goal. Johnson was very, very good in net.

Oh, and the PROSPECTS are supposed to go in the shootout... last time I checked, Shanahan, Zajac, Parise, Clarkson and Rolston aren't prospects.
That's because the Devils don't have any good prospects to play in the pre-season.

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09-16-2009, 09:42 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by morffin View Post
I got a lot of grief this summer for defending Sather ... had to stop posting on my old board ( Daily News ) because of all the insults hurled at me ....but Sather has done a great job these last 3 - 4 years .... completely rebuilt the worst scouting system in the lg and transformed the oldest and worst farm team in the lg into a system that is turning out players that know how to play the game.

He got Gilroy to sign with us and stole Johnson from Pitt for a # 5 pick! Grachev...AA ..DZ ..tons of young talent.

I went to my first Ranger game in 1969 ...and I cant recall ever having so many talented kids in this org.

The time to stop bashing Sather might have passed ...he completely sucked his first few years here as GM but has been very good since the lockout ....except for the Redden contract of course....

.good time to be a Ranger fan.
You're only pointing out the good, there are waayy too many bads

Kids drafted: Al Montoya, Hugh Jessiman. While he has done a good job with drafting good kids, there is not where the problem lies, the problem lies in his free agency record.

Kasperitus, Rosival, Redden, Gomez, Drury (all these guys were good players, but he is horrible at negotiating the money aspect( a la D****binsky). It's late so my mind isn't really functioning but you made the post and mentioned the select few that he did good on, there have been a lot more bad to outwiegh the good.

The truth is that Sather needs to good.... 95% of Ranger fans can't stand the guy, and I really am in that pool.

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09-16-2009, 09:44 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Personally I am against pairing Gilroy with Staal. IMO Staal has some untapped offensive potential and having to cover for Gilroy all game will stunt its development.
true he may but who else on this roster is defensively responsible to play with him? it doesnt mean staal cant pinch it just means the wingers are going to have to cover a lot of ground. callahan is perfect for this system imo... hope it doesnt take a hit to his production though

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09-16-2009, 09:45 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
You're only pointing out the good, there are waayy too many bads

Kids drafted: Al Montoya, Hugh Jessiman. While he has done a good job with drafting good kids, there is not where the problem lies, the problem lies in his free agency record.

Kasperitus, Rosival, Redden, Gomez, Drury (all these guys were good players, but he is horrible at negotiating the money aspect( a la D****binsky). It's late so my mind isn't really functioning but you made the post and mentioned the select few that he did good on, there have been a lot more bad to outwiegh the good.

The truth is that Sather needs to good.... 95% of Ranger fans can't stand the guy, and I really am in that pool.
I don't see how you can hold Montoya against him. Hank was still a relative unknown and Blackburn's return was doubtful. You could argue that he could have taken a goalie later, but with the Blackburn injury and the fact that it was a weak draft class I really don't think we can complain too much. Most of your other points are valid.

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09-16-2009, 09:47 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I don't see how you can hold Montoya against him. Hank was still a relative unknown and Blackburn's return was doubtful. You could argue that he could have taken a goalie later, but with the Blackburn injury and the fact that it was a weak draft class I really don't think we can complain too much. Most of your other points are valid.
Well I was just trying to build up a case hahaha. I know you're right about that though.

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09-16-2009, 09:48 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Gilroy keeps this up, he's going to look real nice next to Staal as a dynamic puck rusher.

Del Zotto had an okay game. Kinda feel bad for him, that Gilroy is so electric it almost makes his game look simple. But I have no doubt his vision and passing will be astounding. Maybe not until next year though.

Lisin is definitely good enough to be on this team. Just hope he actually pulls through with some contribution on the board. Not good enough to just be fast.

Grachev should start off in HFD. My guess is he's a quick study, gets some weight/strength on him at the pro level, adjusted and more to the pace and skill level, and is back up mid season.

I'd like to see some more of Owens.
I agree with virtually everything you said. I have some reservations about a Staal/Gilroy pair (as mentioned earlier) but overall it certainly sounds good on paper.

I think while MDZ took a back seat tonight (to as you put it, Gilroy's "electricity") he has overall played very well (better vs. Boston) and could play in the NHL and make an impact this year - his vision, poise, mobility, and passing are superb. But I think the Rangers will give him a last year of seasoning in the OHL both because Gilroy's play gives them that option and because doing so worked out so well for Staal (he dominated, led his team to the OHL finals and won the Gretzky award as a defenseman on the losing team - still amazes me).

Grachev has been good, but the Rangers have committed to being patient with the kids and he could clearly use some time to really put his game together in the AHL. A half-season or season to fine tune his pro-level scoring touch will do wonders for him.

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09-16-2009, 09:50 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
You're only pointing out the good, there are waayy too many bads

Kids drafted: Al Montoya, Hugh Jessiman. While he has done a good job with drafting good kids, there is not where the problem lies, the problem lies in his free agency record.

Kasperitus, Rosival, Redden, Gomez, Drury (all these guys were good players, but he is horrible at negotiating the money aspect( a la D****binsky). It's late so my mind isn't really functioning but you made the post and mentioned the select few that he did good on, there have been a lot more bad to outwiegh the good.

The truth is that Sather needs to good.... 95% of Ranger fans can't stand the guy, and I really am in that pool.

agreed ...he has made a lot of mistakes ...but the one thing that made me change my view of Sather is that he has changed the culture of the org ...from a win now ..screw the future org...to where we are now ...one of the best young teams in the lg with a good farm and a good scouting system. I said in my orig. post that his first few seasons here were awful...but he has really turned it around these last few years.

I was in the majority that hated him ...but Ive come around to respect the change in the Rangers org. that has happened the last few years.

The real good thing is that with the financial clout the Rangers have they can put together one of the best scouting and player development systems in the game.

And... I only mentioned some of the good moves he made ...didnt even mention ..Staal or the King.

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09-16-2009, 09:52 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by twistedwrister17 View Post
true he may but who else on this roster is defensively responsible to play with him?
I think Roszival could do the trick. Girardi as well but that's obviously more risky.

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Originally Posted by twistedwrister17 View Post
it doesnt mean staal cant pinch
That's just not gonna happen. Gilroy is too geared towards offense (as he should be it's his strength) that Staal will inevitably always have to be in "cover" mode. Maybe I'm overthinking it since we don't really "need" another guy chipping in points (in the system - with Gilroy/Sangs/MDZ) like we need Staal to be a shutdown guy. I just would hate to see his potential stunted.

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it just means the wingers are going to have to cover a lot of ground. callahan is perfect for this system imo...
Agreed.

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09-16-2009, 09:52 PM
  #613
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That's because the Devils don't have any good prospects to play in the pre-season.
Was different with the Devils. None of the lines tonight were our regular lines last season. Langenbrunner usually plays with Zajac and Parise. Elias is injured, and Zubrus is centering a rookie and Rolston, not exactly that great either. Our bottom two lines were rookies, and half of our defense were rookies. Each defensive pairing had a veteran with a rookie.

So while Parise and Zajac was playing tonight, it was not our A team either.

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09-16-2009, 09:56 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by morffin View Post
agreed ...he has made a lot of mistakes ...but the one thing that made me change my view of Sather is that he has changed the culture of the org ...from a win now ..screw the future org...to where we are now ...one of the best young teams in the lg with a good farm and a good scouting system. I said in my orig. post that his first few seasons here were awful...but he has really turned it around these last few years.

I was in the majority that hated him ...but Ive come around to respect the change in the Rangers org. that has happened the last few years.

The real good thing is that with the financial clout the Rangers have they can put together one of the best scouting and player development systems in the game.

And... I only mentioned some of the good moves he made ...didnt even mention ..Staal or the King.
I do agree with you. He has a knack for getting talent late in drafts, and finding the diamonds in the rough per se. I think that he needs to step down as GM, and he should be made into like a GM that focuses on the scouting of young players. I just hate how bad he is when it comes to free agency, but I am impressed at how he's turned the organization around since the lockout. I just look at it as all the good he's doing with the youth buildup is offset by how horrendous he is at signing big time free agents, or just free agents in general.

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09-16-2009, 09:59 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
I do agree with you. He has a knack for getting talent late in drafts, and finding the diamonds in the rough per se. I think that he needs to step down as GM, and he should be made into like a GM that focuses on the scouting of young players. I just hate how bad he is when it comes to free agency, but I am impressed at how he's turned the organization around since the lockout. I just look at it as all the good he's doing with the youth buildup is offset by how horrendous he is at signing big time free agents, or just free agents in general.
I think that has a lot more to do with our scouts than Sather. It's not like he's flying around to watch CHL games every day off. I will credit him for an overall "pro-youth" philosophy and being (for the most part) good at trades. He still sucks with a checkbook though.

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09-16-2009, 09:59 PM
  #616
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I do agree with you. He has a knack for getting talent late in drafts, and finding the diamonds in the rough per se. I think that he needs to step down as GM, and he should be made into like a GM that focuses on the scouting of young players. I just hate how bad he is when it comes to free agency, but I am impressed at how he's turned the organization around since the lockout. I just look at it as all the good he's doing with the youth buildup is offset by how horrendous he is at signing big time free agents, or just free agents in general.
i think he did a great job in free agency this summer. i feel kotalik was his worst signing and if a guy making 3m for 3 years who can chip in 20 goals is the worst signing than he did a good job.

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09-16-2009, 10:01 PM
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would....

staal rozy
gilroy redden
girardi 6th

be a good idea to maximize the defenses strengths this season?

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09-16-2009, 10:02 PM
  #618
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I do agree with you. He has a knack for getting talent late in drafts, and finding the diamonds in the rough per se. I think that he needs to step down as GM, and he should be made into like a GM that focuses on the scouting of young players. I just hate how bad he is when it comes to free agency, but I am impressed at how he's turned the organization around since the lockout. I just look at it as all the good he's doing with the youth buildup is offset by how horrendous he is at signing big time free agents, or just free agents in general.
I think he got himself into a trap when he bragged that he would win The Cup every year if he had the Rangers budget ...he tried to prove it and it blew up in his face...the salary cap might be the best thing that has ever happened to this franchise...it has forced them to focus on player development and scouting.

G Clarke and Tom Renney deserve a lot of the credit...Renney fixed the putrid scouting system and Gordie is a great talent evaluator ...Shonnie and Germander are doing a great job in Hartford as well.
Just about every kid that comes up plays the game the right way ... they play hard and play both ends.

Ive been watching the Rangers for 40 years and I have never seen this franchise so deep with young talent.

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09-16-2009, 10:06 PM
  #619
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Thats wonderful, really it is.

But for him to make this team, he has to bury that.
huh?

come on. hes been one of our best forwards both games.

he scored one tonite already that the refs stole.

the guy makes the team irrespective of that rolling puck. period.

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09-16-2009, 10:06 PM
  #620
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Typical first period, but I really like the what most of our kids are showing. I don't think there really should be any doubt that Lisin isn't making the team, however, Grachev and Anisimov definitely do not have a lock yet.
IMO, I don't think Kessel or anyone else ecklolnd is going to be a Ranger. Possibly a vet for defense but definitely no one else. Looking at what the Rangers are doing with Prospal doesn't only point towards doubts with Dubinsky, if you're taking it that way (personally, I'm not), but also shows that Grachev and Anisimov may not be totally ready, despite what they show in the preseason.
Del Zotto has looked decent, definitely more than I expected. He has a nice shot and has looked somewhat responsible on defense. I think it's to Hartford for him for another season to improve and further establish himself.
I agree with a lot of what's been said about Gilroy. One thing that I've pondered a lot about is his ability to transfer his game to defense. While his first game he looked shaky at best, he provided a much better look at his defensive skills (and offensive, of course) against the Devils today. I do wonder how he would look as a forward, seeing how much of an upside he has. He really looked better than most of our forwards tonight.
Johnson really impressed me tonight. I haven't really followed him at all up until the TCPT. If he continues what he showed tonight he has a huge upside within this organization.
The public Dubi announcements are getting a bit old and childish at this point, seeing that I don't even think it was necessary to do in the first place. Of course from the organizations standpoint it's putting pressure on Dubi, which at this point in time I would think there was enough on him to begin with. I really like the kid and besides being my girlfriends' dream boy in which she'd probably cry if she wasn't signed (I probably will too considering I just picked up a Dubi jersey for her ), he's almost an absolute essential for the lack of depth we have at this point in time on the team.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I really do like the move to Prospal to center. Assuming that Dubi does sign, it gives us a decent top three at center and allows someone like Avery or Lisin to avoid being defaulted to the fourth line; somewhere neither should really be. Obviously we're loaded at right wing and I'm not entirely sure at who is capable of being switched to left, which we're going to need if we expect to avoid someone taking the fourth line drop, which isn't entirely horrible, but I'm sure something that would alter either the teams potential or a players'.

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09-16-2009, 10:07 PM
  #621
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I think that has a lot more to do with our scouts than Sather. It's not like he's flying around to watch CHL games every day off. I will credit him for an overall "pro-youth" philosophy and being (for the most part) good at trades. He still sucks with a checkbook though.
You have to give Sather credit for fixing what was the worst scouting system in the lg ...he has made some god awful FA signings ...but this summer he kept himself under control.

Who knows ...he might go back to his old ways and **** it all up ...but for now things are looking better than they have in years

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09-16-2009, 10:11 PM
  #622
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but this summer he kept himself under control.
Ehh we'll see how the next 5 years go.

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but for now things are looking better than they have in years
Agree 100%.

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09-16-2009, 10:17 PM
  #623
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I'd still like to see him finish a few times before I form an opinion on the guy. He certainly has wheels, but can he put the puck in the net? Last night he whiffed on what could have been a tap in...and tonight he also failed to finish (albeit on a solid save.) Granted it's only two games, so I'll reserve judgement until I see him play a bit more. That said, at least he's had opportunities...so you know he's doing something right.
Yea because Grachev, Anisimov, Kotalik, Drury, Prospal, Callahan... Actually the whole roster except for Gilroy, Owens, and Higgins... DIDN'T score either... But less crucify Lisin?

People are already getting annoyingly ridiculous with this garbage.

He played very well in both games. He is definitely a top 9 player on this team.

Again, he's not Zherdev so let's all please aim the hate elsewhere.

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09-16-2009, 10:18 PM
  #624
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Ehh we'll see how the next 5 years go.



Agree 100%.

just noticed your DS photo ...a good friend lives in Madison and has season tix to the Badgers ... this guy is an old time Ranger fan...from the old Garden ...he says Steppan is one of the best young players he has ever seen ...and this guy has seen a lot of hockey.

Nice chatting with you...Im off to bed.

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09-16-2009, 10:33 PM
  #625
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea because Grachev, Anisimov, Kotalik, Drury, Prospal, Callahan... Actually the whole roster except for Gilroy, Owens, and Higgins... DIDN'T score either... But less crucify Lisin?

People are already getting annoyingly ridiculous with this garbage.

He played very well in both games. He is definitely a top 9 player on this team.

Again, he's not Zherdev so let's all please aim the hate elsewhere.
Gaborik, Dubinsky, Higgins, Callahan, Drury, Kotalik, Prospal, Anisimov, Avery.

How you could say he is DEFINITELY a top 9 player on this team is BEYOND me. In fact, its crazy to make such a definitive statement. Lisin better hope Dubinsky doesnt sign, and even then he might need some help.

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