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PK must be sent to Hamilton

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:27 AM
  #26
alexstream
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Originally Posted by Habstastic View Post
It seems that PK Subban is having a very good training camp but regardless, he MUST not be kept on the Canadiens roster to start the year. He is a top shelf prospect and has a good chance of becoming an integral part of the Habs future blue line core but I think it would be VERY beneficial to him to play for Hamilton this year. We need to take a page from the Red Wings and properly develop this type of talent by allowing him to play ALOT on the farm to learn his craft/gain confidence vs. getting limited play with the "big" team.

Just my two cents.
He is TOTALLY NOT ready anyway! He is just so raw. I mean raw. I mean RAW.

Yes it was fun to see him get the puck, deke 1-2 time, and FIRE a canon. wow. That is some offensive talent.

But the guy really is raw, did I mention it already? Weak positoning, sometimes looks like he doesn't know what to do, where to go.
I don't mean to be harsh, but Andre Benoit looked like a frikkin superstar "experience-wise" compared to Subban (although if you go with "hockey-player-qualities" such as size, speed, strong shot, etc. Benoit looks like a pee wee). Subban might be our prospect who needs the most work.
You know HF's rating system?
well, I can't predict the number (although I'd say he's a 8.5)
However, from what I've seen, I'd say that right now, no matter what number you give him, he's a "E"
i.e. could possibly be there, one day, with a lot of work and polish, etc.

The good point is that the guy does have a lot of willingness. Willingness-wise, he ain't no Alex Daigle. He's more of a Alex Ovechkin

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09-18-2009, 10:32 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
The one thing I will say is I'm not convinced yet that Hamilton is where PK starts.
It's logical choice at this time but..........

Ryan O'Byrne's game tells me that he's the sure shot #7
So unless we want to carry 8 dmen...
Oh and Let's not forget Weber, who IMO is "development-wise" way ahead of PK.
I'll actually get to see Weber tonight, so I'll be able to confirm that statement.

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09-18-2009, 10:47 AM
  #28
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He is TOTALLY NOT ready anyway! He is just so raw. I mean raw. I mean RAW.

Yes it was fun to see him get the puck, deke 1-2 time, and FIRE a canon. wow. That is some offensive talent.

But the guy really is raw, did I mention it already? Weak positoning, sometimes looks like he doesn't know what to do, where to go.
I don't mean to be harsh, but Andre Benoit looked like a frikkin superstar "experience-wise" compared to Subban (although if you go with "hockey-player-qualities" such as size, speed, strong shot, etc. Benoit looks like a pee wee). Subban might be our prospect who needs the most work.
You know HF's rating system?
well, I can't predict the number (although I'd say he's a 8.5)
However, from what I've seen, I'd say that right now, no matter what number you give him, he's a "E"
i.e. could possibly be there, one day, with a lot of work and polish, etc.

The good point is that the guy does have a lot of willingness. Willingness-wise, he ain't no Alex Daigle. He's more of a Alex Ovechkin
Pretty sure he's a 7.0. And I'd say a C is a good rating.

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09-18-2009, 11:17 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Habstastic View Post
It seems that PK Subban is having a very good training camp but regardless, he MUST not be kept on the Canadiens roster to start the year. He is a top shelf prospect and has a good chance of becoming an integral part of the Habs future blue line core but I think it would be VERY beneficial to him to play for Hamilton this year. We need to take a page from the Red Wings and properly develop this type of talent by allowing him to play ALOT on the farm to learn his craft/gain confidence vs. getting limited play with the "big" team.

Just my two cents.
How did Luke Shenn do as a young rookie? What about Shea Weber or Ryan Suter? Brent Seabrook and Duncan Keith? How's Mark Staal handling the NHL? Drew Doughty? Or what about Ryan Parent, Kris Letang, Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Alexander Edler?

I think you get the point... We have a shortage of right handed defensemen and if Subban outplays and beats other defensemen to the spot, he must stay with the big club. Why? Because he brings something we don't have: youth, enthusiasm, a right handed shot and offense from that side of the ice on defense. Notice here that I'm not saying that he must make the team no matter what, unlike what you're proposing the other way around.

Enough of the so-called "automatics". If he proves to be ready and makes that team, it's Gainey's job to make room for him by trading someone.

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09-18-2009, 11:49 AM
  #30
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He's showed some nice things but he's still at least a year away. He needs to to refine his offensive game a little and he's just not ready to play the defensive game at the NHL level. There is no doubt he's going back but it's a good experience for him.

Keeping him here would be foolish and hasty. Best thing for him is to get at least one year at the pro level in Hamilton for sure.

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Old
09-18-2009, 12:00 PM
  #31
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Geez....I can't imagine if it was Subban instead of Hunwick when Bozak from the Leafs schooled the guy with his move the other day. Again, some people playing the expert using the Booth goal to prove that Subban sucks defensively, are you guys freakin serious? It's not like he was totally unmatched, Booth didn't even outspeeded him. Sure, Subban should have matched his strength to take the rebound away, but if Sanford (who did play great laset night), is in a better position, he stops that rebound easily.

Surely, Subban biggest problem is that he seems to always want to be implicated in the play which sometimes he doesn't have to be. Still I prefer to see that than to see guys who are just playing it always safe. Doesn't mean that I want him with the boys, I don't, he needs to be in Hamilton. But he's not the worst defensive d-man in the history of the league. Markov looked dumb on the 2nd goal they scored, is he the worst defensive d-man Marc Bureau style?

I mean, for what we saw, didn't Subban also made some great plays defensively? How about when he outmuscled a guy in the corner and get out of there with the puck? How about the pokecheck he made? How about made he cut out a passing lane? Nope. Booth scored, Subban is awful.

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Old
09-18-2009, 12:16 PM
  #32
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
How did Luke Shenn do as a young rookie? What about Shea Weber or Ryan Suter? Brent Seabrook and Duncan Keith? How's Mark Staal handling the NHL? Drew Doughty? Or what about Ryan Parent, Kris Letang, Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Alexander Edler?

I think you get the point... We have a shortage of right handed defensemen and if Subban outplays and beats other defensemen to the spot, he must stay with the big club. Why? Because he brings something we don't have: youth, enthusiasm, a right handed shot and offense from that side of the ice on defense. Notice here that I'm not saying that he must make the team no matter what, unlike what you're proposing the other way around.

Enough of the so-called "automatics". If he proves to be ready and makes that team, it's Gainey's job to make room for him by trading someone.
I know what you're trying to say, but just wanted to point out Weber, Suter, Keith, Letang, Seabrook, Edler, Parent played in AHL. Guys like Schenn, Doughty and even Seabrook were given regular spots on teams that were in rebuild mode. So there was definite room for them.

Only Vlasic and Staal were kept on teams that were respectively great and average, although there was room in NYR on D.

I don't think Subban should start the year here even if he outplays others for the simple reason that was shown by Phaneuf.
It's only a matter of time before he gets smashed in the middle of the ice when he cuts. He needs to learn how to play vs bigger bodies in the AHL before.
Not saying he needs to stay there forever, but at least start and see how he develops.

I don't think enthusiasm is going to be an issue, or at least in the beginning. We pretty much have a new team, everyone seems happy and anxious to get started.
The fact he's right handed is what really makes him interesting.

I don't feel like it's an ''automatic'' for him to be sent down. I think the circumstances make it evident that he will. But if we had the same set of Dmen as last year, I'd be for him staying as we had no point shot on PP to replace Streit's.

This year, there's no need to rush him up. We have two big offensive Dmen, we have at least another 2 that can make good breakout passes in Gorges and Hamrlik, and we have three big Defensive Dman in Mara, Gill and O'Byrne. I think it's a well balanced D squad, the only issue is that they're all lefties but we'll have to wait and see if it truly is a problem.

If it is one, then he'll get a chance some time this year.


Last edited by Kriss E: 09-18-2009 at 12:26 PM.
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Old
09-18-2009, 12:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
PK is dominating the rookie camp and Gorges is expandable so there's no way PK isn't in Montreal for the first game of the season.

[/Professional journalism]

'Al Gill va etre le 7iem defenseur.

PK est exceptionel Il va rester ici avec le ch.

-****tyonlineblog.com

I have watched 5 minutes of P.K. Subban on youtube and I feel in those 5 minutes, he looked almost as good as Markov and could take his place this year! Hal Gill should be the 7th d and Subban as the 6th.

-Anotherblogthatsucksass.com

Je pense that Pk is tres talented. Il va stay here avec l'equipe pour all of la saison. Hal Gill...the 7ieme defenseur.

-ihaveneverwatchedahockeygameinmylife.com

I'm surprised reports like this haven't been running rampant on the net.

Yeah, my French sucks, especially my spelling.

I agree he should play n Hamilton, but he should get a few more games with the big club.

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Old
09-18-2009, 12:26 PM
  #34
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Anyone else feel that except for 1 or 2 dumb moves (well technically only 1 that I saw, I didn't see the whole game and I also missed the 1st period) that O'Byrne looked pretty good out there so far?
Absolutely, he played his best game in a long time. The fans were even chanting his name after he stood up for Latendresse and beat the **** out of cambell in the fight. He threw a monster hit too in our zone. It looks like he knows what he has to do in order to stay on this team.

Regarding PK, he's gotta spend the year in Hamilton and keep improving defensively. Maybe next year he'll break the squad as a 7th D.

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09-18-2009, 12:32 PM
  #35
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Absolutely, he played his best game in a long time. The fans were even chanting his name after he stood up for Latendresse and beat the **** out of cambell in the fight. He threw a monster hit too in our zone. It looks like he knows what he has to do in order to stay on this team.

Regarding PK, he's gotta spend the year in Hamilton and keep improving defensively. Maybe next year he'll break the squad as a 7th D.
PK will never be 7th.

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09-18-2009, 12:38 PM
  #36
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I don't think there's much worry about PK staying in Montreal. Even if he plays lights out, he has to pass O'Byrne, Weber and likely Carle on the depth chart and that's to ride the bench if everyone's healthy.

PK may get a game or two, but he's Hamilton bound for sure, IMO.

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09-18-2009, 12:48 PM
  #37
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if he's good and will get the chance to play 15min a game in montreal,
why not
if he's gonna be on the bench or not dressed
than sure he should be in hamilton.
I dont believe you have to send a player to farm team to develop.
so many players got developed in their farm team but never became great players in nhl.

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09-18-2009, 01:43 PM
  #38
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It's really early to base any assessment.

Let's see how he does and what our injury situation is coming out of camp. Might be beneficial to give him a little taste if he's earned it.

I want him to play under Boucher and learn some new tricks... but if he got to stick around a bit it would be cool

The fans were chanting his name last night...

that's amazing.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Habstastic View Post
It seems that PK Subban is having a very good training camp but regardless, he MUST not be kept on the Canadiens roster to start the year. He is a top shelf prospect and has a good chance of becoming an integral part of the Habs future blue line core but I think it would be VERY beneficial to him to play for Hamilton this year. We need to take a page from the Red Wings and properly develop this type of talent by allowing him to play ALOT on the farm to learn his craft/gain confidence vs. getting limited play with the "big" team.

Just my two cents.
Going to be tough for him and Weber to make it with 7 proven NHL d-men ahead of him. I wonder if we have veteran d-man in Hamilton to help these guys develop?

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09-18-2009, 04:26 PM
  #40
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Don't join the sarcasm detector squad :d
You guys just haven't seen the discussion some other hf folk and I had with proffesional journalist... Which just makes me laugh just to think of it everytime I see PK's name.

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09-18-2009, 04:28 PM
  #41
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Seems to me that we're hired some posters on this board who just love to be hype killers. I've never seen so many harsh criticisms for other guys than Subban and Latendresse. Which conveniently, were the 2 guys lately that received hype as much.

I mean, being not as good as what the hype suggests, doesn't mean that they suck. People should take a look elsewhere in the league and see how most of the rookies look like and I can assure, most of them look way more out of place than what Subban did last night.

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09-18-2009, 04:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Seems to me that we're hired some posters on this board who just love to be hype killers. I've never seen so many harsh criticisms for other guys than Subban and Latendresse. Which conveniently, were the 2 guys lately that received hype as much.

I mean, being not as good as what the hype suggests, doesn't mean that they suck. People should take a look elsewhere in the league and see how most of the rookies look like and I can assure, most of them look way more out of place than what Subban did last night.
I actually didnt watch the game as I dont have RIS where I'm at at the moment, I do think I've awlays been a hype killer, maybe less in PK's case actually.

Thing is, If someone tells me PK is ready this season I'll tell him he's stupid and he should play in AHL, if someone tells me PK suck I'll tell him he's not and will be a big part of the team down the road.

Seems like I'm never in the bandwagon no matter what. Also I think there's a difference between being a hype killer and being realistic...

I remember getting ****ted on because I said Lats wasnt ready during his first camp, but I also got ****ted on during his first season, maybe 2nd as well when people said he was too slow, sucked and stuff...

I'm not a high/low type of person, mostly always in the middle and when it comes to hockey in Montreal it seems like you cant ever be right unless you say a guy flatout suck after one bad shift or the guy is the most awesome thing ever cause he made one nice play.

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09-18-2009, 04:57 PM
  #43
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I have been saying this before the camp. There is no reason to rush him, and both the organization and himself will win by having him play an entire season in the AHL. For that reason, I think Weber is one year ahead of Subban in development, and if you need to keep one of the two guys with the big club, it has to be Weber: more experience and played under pressure. And don't forget about Carle who is in term of experience between Weber and Subban. Subban will in fact be the third D on the call-up list this season.

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09-18-2009, 05:02 PM
  #44
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What about this scenraio:

In PK's 3 remaining exhibition games he scores 4 goals, sets up 4, KO's 2 guys, leads the nhl preseason in blocked shots, and completes his 1st interview en francais on live television ( he's taking lessons ).

The kid is 20 years old and 4 months.... This is the new NHL, let him play - besides, Hamilton is a crazy town

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09-18-2009, 05:04 PM
  #45
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How did Luke Shenn do as a young rookie? What about Shea Weber or Ryan Suter? Brent Seabrook and Duncan Keith? How's Mark Staal handling the NHL? Drew Doughty? Or what about Ryan Parent, Kris Letang, Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Alexander Edler?

I think you get the point... We have a shortage of right handed defensemen and if Subban outplays and beats other defensemen to the spot, he must stay with the big club. Why? Because he brings something we don't have: youth, enthusiasm, a right handed shot and offense from that side of the ice on defense. Notice here that I'm not saying that he must make the team no matter what, unlike what you're proposing the other way around.

Enough of the so-called "automatics". If he proves to be ready and makes that team, it's Gainey's job to make room for him by trading someone.
They all started on teams that weren't making the playoffs. I hope you have higher standards.

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09-18-2009, 06:41 PM
  #46
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They all started on teams that weren't making the playoffs. I hope you have higher standards.
What's your point? Did they or did they not do the job? Because they were good enough to make the team doesn't mean that the rest was...

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09-18-2009, 08:43 PM
  #47
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Watch the game tonight and tell me that there's not A WHOLE LOT of guys you wouldn't send to Hamilton before PK....

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09-18-2009, 08:51 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Watch the game tonight and tell me that there's not A WHOLE LOT of guys you wouldn't send to Hamilton before PK....
PK is one of our best prospects, so yes of course there's a bunch of player's we'd send down before. Doesn't mean he should start here either.

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09-18-2009, 10:32 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
How did Luke Shenn do as a young rookie? What about Shea Weber or Ryan Suter? Brent Seabrook and Duncan Keith? How's Mark Staal handling the NHL? Drew Doughty? Or what about Ryan Parent, Kris Letang, Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Alexander Edler?

I think you get the point... We have a shortage of right handed defensemen and if Subban outplays and beats other defensemen to the spot, he must stay with the big club. Why? Because he brings something we don't have: youth, enthusiasm, a right handed shot and offense from that side of the ice on defense. Notice here that I'm not saying that he must make the team no matter what, unlike what you're proposing the other way around.

Enough of the so-called "automatics". If he proves to be ready and makes that team, it's Gainey's job to make room for him by trading someone.
Yeah but most of the guys you just mentioned like Schenn started early on a team in the middle of the rebuild. They can afford having Schenn make mistakes every night (which he does), its not imperative to win. The Habs are a team competing for a playoffs spot, they can't have such a liability on the team, too much is at stake. 1 year in Hamilton is not going to kill Subban. He's very very young. Had the Leafs drafted Schenn when the Leafs still had Sundin/McCabe/Tucker...etc., no way in hell would they give Schenn that opportunity immediately.

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09-18-2009, 10:40 PM
  #50
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PK is one of our best prospects, so yes of course there's a bunch of player's we'd send down before. Doesn't mean he should start here either.
No but how about giving him a couple of more games before deciding to send him down? For some, people already took that decision, the same way that I could say that just after one game, Russell has no business being in this league either. PK deserves more than that and might deserve to go till the end. Then they'll take the appropriate decision even if I think it will mean to send him only because we have already our top 6 that are signed and not because he's not good enough. But Gainey won't trade any of our top 6 to make room for him. Not because he's not good enough. 'Cause give him a nice vet like Hamrlik with him and he'd learn pretty fast.

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