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The AHL Discuss the American Hockey League; its players, teams, and games.

So, why can the ECHL do this, but the AHL cannot

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Old
10-28-2009, 01:47 AM
  #26
Tommy Hawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseHunter View Post
As a Moose fan, I'm appalled at the east teams that don't come here.

Wilkes-Barre
Norfolk
Erie
Hershey

are the only ones that will be making the trip to Winnipeg this season. Out of how many eastern teams?

And I can't imagine how little eastern teams make it out to Abbotsford.
Quit your complaining. Do you know how many of those teams are traveling to Rockford, Milwaukee, Chicago? I know NONE are coming to Chicago.

And Hutch, Abbottsford is paying the travel costs so the eastern teams should be chomping to go out there since they do not have to pay. Also, the 'big market' east conference teams rarely travel out of their conference unless it is to Rochester, Toronto, (previously) Syracuse, etc.

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10-28-2009, 02:24 AM
  #27
LadyJet26
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
who's Erie Erie is an OHL Market---Lake Erie (Cleveland), Moose.... most East teams don't have the budget to do an Abbotsford outside the bigger East markets....
Abbotsford is paying for the travel of east teams. You'd think more would have jumped at the chance. My bad for Lake Erie. It says Erie on the Moose schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolvesfan View Post
Quit your complaining. Do you know how many of those teams are traveling to Rockford, Milwaukee, Chicago? I know NONE are coming to Chicago.

And Hutch, Abbottsford is paying the travel costs so the eastern teams should be chomping to go out there since they do not have to pay. Also, the 'big market' east conference teams rarely travel out of their conference unless it is to Rochester, Toronto, (previously) Syracuse, etc.
Excuse me for not wanting to see the Wolves all the time. Norfolk is the only new team we've played in god, five years maybe. Maybe it's because we actually have a nice arena. Who knows.

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10-28-2009, 07:46 AM
  #28
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We're playing Adirondack 12 times this season - there are some that say that's still not enough.

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10-28-2009, 11:55 AM
  #29
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point of reference to Wolvesfan....

the last franchise Portland played since the expansion year of 2001 is Manitoba, no Chicago, etc..... which we were told was going to happen the year after being eliminated by MTB.... WE have not played the Calgary affiliate since they split off from Lowell the year after dormanting the Saint John franchise(WHICH later became Omaha, then QC, and is now Abbotsford....

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10-28-2009, 04:47 PM
  #30
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The way I see the schedule, owners want to max out division games. After those, they figure out which conference games they want to play. By that time, there aren't too many games left for the other conference.

Just for example, the Bears play 52 Division games and 16 vs. the Atlantic (one each, home & home). This leaves a grand total of 12 games vs. the West Conference. Manitoba is an automatic 4-pack, and we play Toronto, Cleveland, and visit Rochester twice (which we haven't done in quite a while).

Overall, Hershey has been to Chicago, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, Houston & San Antonio in addition to Winnipeg (and they hit Utah when they were in the "A"). They do seem to have developed a fixation on Manitoba, having visited the Moose 3 of the past 4 years. I'd love to get to the other cities, but it's a limited pool of available games, and an even more limited pool of willing owners.

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Old
10-29-2009, 12:25 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumblick View Post
The way I see the schedule, owners want to max out division games. After those, they figure out which conference games they want to play. By that time, there aren't too many games left for the other conference.

Just for example, the Bears play 52 Division games and 16 vs. the Atlantic (one each, home & home). This leaves a grand total of 12 games vs. the West Conference. Manitoba is an automatic 4-pack, and we play Toronto, Cleveland, and visit Rochester twice (which we haven't done in quite a while).

Overall, Hershey has been to Chicago, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, Houston & San Antonio in addition to Winnipeg (and they hit Utah when they were in the "A"). They do seem to have developed a fixation on Manitoba, having visited the Moose 3 of the past 4 years. I'd love to get to the other cities, but it's a limited pool of available games, and an even more limited pool of willing owners.
This maybe true for the Bears but the Wolves RARELY play any eastern conference teams. Heck we have teams that played QC, Rockford and Milwaukee but not Chicago.

So, while the Bears have 12 games against the Western Conference, we have some years teams from our division don't even PLAY teams from the other division in our conference. Heck, Chicago and Milwaukee doesn't play Rochester this year.

Moosefan - Unfortunately you do not see the Wolves 12 times a year but my point is count your blessings that you are even able to see teams from the other conference. This year Chicago sees NONE and as I point out, we don't even see all the teams within our conference. We are done with some teams before Thanksgiving.

The AHL schedule is ridiculous and the league has a misplaced focus. They want to control costs but do not look at the big picture and create revenues. It is what is is and it will not change until I win a $300 million lottery and buy every team in the league and completely change the rules. OF course I would have to hire several people as advisors!!

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Old
10-29-2009, 11:23 AM
  #32
Rumblick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolvesfan View Post
This maybe true for the Bears but the Wolves RARELY play any eastern conference teams. Heck we have teams that played QC, Rockford and Milwaukee but not Chicago.
Again, it comes down to the number of out-of-conference games they want to play. I was surprised to see that the Wolves make NO Eastern trips this season, but your travel costs are pretty high just staying in conference, with Manitoba & Texas on your slate.


So, while the Bears have 12 games against the Western Conference, we have some years teams from our division don't even PLAY teams from the other division in our conference. Heck, Chicago and Milwaukee doesn't play Rochester this year.
The Amerks play no Western Division teams this season. They've adopted a division schedule with Eastern Conference support, likely to cut travel costs (and given their attendance, it seems like that was a good idea).


The AHL schedule is ridiculous and the league has a misplaced focus. They want to control costs but do not look at the big picture and create revenues. It is what is is and it will not change until I win a $300 million lottery and buy every team in the league and completely change the rules. OF course I would have to hire several people as advisors!!
There's really no evidence that bringing Abbotsford, Houston or Grand Rapids will increase attendance or revenues for any Eastern teams. Much as I disagree with playing ANYONE more than 8 times a season, I understand where the owners are coming from. Truth be known, I'd be happy with split conferences if we could expand the schedule within the conferences (I hate the idea of only making one trip to any New England city).
That said, please reserve a spot for me on your advisory committee.

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10-31-2009, 01:28 AM
  #33
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To be honest about the travel costs, flights from Chicago to Houston (which i do every week) have been as low as $200 ROUND TRIP. Hotel at the 4 seasons and Hilton in Houston are about $100 a night with a negotiated rate. So a 5 day trip to Houston, Austin, San Antonio for 30 people would be about $25k ($7,500 airfare, $10k for rooms, and $7,500 per diem) . Let's say they get 10% of the gate. 4,000 fans times 15 is $60k so 10% is 6,000. Multiple by 3 games and you get 18,000. So for a roads trip they pay out of pocket 7,000. Multiply by the number of out of town trips like that (4) and they pay a net whopping $28K.

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Old
10-31-2009, 07:53 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolvesfan View Post
To be honest about the travel costs, flights from Chicago to Houston (which i do every week) have been as low as $200 ROUND TRIP. Hotel at the 4 seasons and Hilton in Houston are about $100 a night with a negotiated rate. So a 5 day trip to Houston, Austin, San Antonio for 30 people would be about $25k ($7,500 airfare, $10k for rooms, and $7,500 per diem) . Let's say they get 10% of the gate. 4,000 fans times 15 is $60k so 10% is 6,000. Multiple by 3 games and you get 18,000. So for a roads trip they pay out of pocket 7,000. Multiply by the number of out of town trips like that (4) and they pay a net whopping $28K.
Okay, so eliminate the 10K for hotel rooms; cut the travel costs from the $7,500 airfare (and you didn't mention that they'll need transportation from airport to hotel, and to arena depending on locations) to about $3,000 for bus trips of 150 miles or less, and it soon becomes painfully obvious why the eastern owners would rather play each other as often as possible.

Again; not saying I like it; just that I understand it.

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Old
11-02-2009, 10:02 PM
  #35
Tommy Hawk
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Originally Posted by Rumblick View Post
Okay, so eliminate the 10K for hotel rooms; cut the travel costs from the $7,500 airfare (and you didn't mention that they'll need transportation from airport to hotel, and to arena depending on locations) to about $3,000 for bus trips of 150 miles or less, and it soon becomes painfully obvious why the eastern owners would rather play each other as often as possible.

Again; not saying I like it; just that I understand it.
Hotel and/or home team provides some transportation. Hotels are usually right next to the arena or the hotel shuttles the players.

I understand where it is less expensive but I am saying that to build overall revenues and attendance, it is a narrow view and the expenses really do not amount to that much. I am also not saying the leageu should go to a full balanced schedule but heck, all teams within conference and home and home with one division in the other conference alternating years would be a minimal cost and would, IMO, reap huge benefits. It would also make the divisional games even more attractive when you only have 3 or 4 games to pick from instead of 6.

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Old
11-10-2009, 12:25 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Rumblick View Post
Again, I'd love to know how the ECHL can do it. They don't have the income the AHL has (though they don't likely have the player costs the upper league has), so they must have something going for them.
How do you know that the ECHL doesn't have the income that the AHL has? As you stated, their player expenses are less. Combine that with just slightly lower ticket prices and the fact that some AHL teams are paying a pretty penny for their affiliation fees and you may have a formula that creates more revenue than the AHL does.

BTW, slightly off topic, currently the ECHL has a higher average attendance than the AHL does. As a league with fewer teams they have 5 teams averaging 5,000 per night compared to the AHL's 8. In addition, the AHL has 10 teams averaging 3,900-4,900 while the ECHL has 11.

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