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Nr 1 priority for Glen Sather...

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Old
09-18-2009, 03:23 PM
  #1
Ola
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Nr 1 priority for Glen Sather...

...must be to get rid of Chris Drury and Wade Redden. At almost all costs.

I may be guilty of overreacting as often as anyone else on this board. But this is not a case of that. This is not a rant nor a knee jerk reaction. I've never been more sure of anything I have ever written on the internet. I often post things I know that I may come to regret. I am absolutely 100% sure I will never change my mind on this subject, objectivly and subjectivly I just can't be wrong.

We are wasting 13.550.000 on thoose two players. You just can not do that with how the league looks now with a cap that have not gone up by around 8-9% per season as it did when thoose players signed.

Everyone with any knowledge expected the cap to keep gooing up by almost 10% per season before the crisis and when Redden and Drury signed here. If the cap had kept gooing up by around 8-10% per season wed hit around 62 this year, 68 in two years and 74m in three years (the end of Drury's deal), 80m and 88m at the end of Redden's contract. Now that may be seen as a exceptional growth for the NHL, but atleast somewhere in that neighborhood was definitly reasonable to expect. Like if the league had a 5-6% increase there would have been a big zero real growth because that would only equal the expected inflation.

With a 80+m cap you can waste 6m on a over the hill vet D. Thats like wasting 3.8m today.

But the conditions have changed since thoose two signed.

Just look around the league. Can anyone find one team that could compete with 13.550.000 less capspace? Please help me search for one:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/

Detroit definitly could not. They'd have to dump like Rafalski (6m), Franzen (3.955), Cleary (2.8) and Holmström (2.5) while replacing thoose 4 rosterplayers with .500 players. Since they already have lost Hossa, Huddler and Samuelsson from last season I just couldn't see how they could compete really.

Pittsburgh would have to dump something like Sergei Gonchar (5m), Jordan Staal (4m), Chris Kunitz (3,75) and Pascal Dupuis/Fedetenko (1.5/1.8).

Chicago then? They have a lot of cheap good players. Could they compete if they were forced to dump 13.550.000? Campbell (7.144), Hossa (5) and Kopecky (1.2). While looking through the league Chicago is the team thats closest IMO along with Nashville that have a ton of capspace open.

But just by looking at other teams you really realize how insane it is to belive that we can compete with the best while spending 13.550.000 m of capspace on a below avg nr 3 D and a avg 3rd line center who is decent on the PP. Its hard to find another team in this league who even could compete for a PO spot if they had to dump 13.550.000 m.

I know that many have some sympathy with Drury or/and Redden. I actually do to. But it is not about that, its about the cap hit they have. We cannot compete with that.

Others will bring up Rozsival, he is also not exactly of great value on the ice when looking at his cap hit. Well if we could find a deal that makes sense for him Id be all for that too, but then I would want atleast something in return. Its not about Rozsival, one bad contract does not make the two worst contracts in the NHL okey if you get what I mean.


Last edited by Ola: 09-18-2009 at 03:37 PM.
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Old
09-18-2009, 03:26 PM
  #2
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Drury is playing here until his contract expires or he retires early, get over it already.

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09-18-2009, 03:27 PM
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I really think Redden and Rozsival are the main problems.

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09-18-2009, 03:27 PM
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I dont think thats the top priority at the moment. Let the season start first. People rip on Drury and Redden all the time, but redden started playing well towards the end of last season and Drury is our captain. Lets see how one season under Torts is before we move on.

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09-18-2009, 03:28 PM
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Yes, we know they're overpaid, but we need them until a couple of prospects step up to prove they're #1 center and #1 dman capable.

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09-18-2009, 03:32 PM
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I will be praying to the hockey gods for an amnesty buyout at the end of this season.

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09-18-2009, 03:34 PM
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Both are overpaid approximately 3 million too much. That equates to a little over 10% of the cap that is wasted. The key to icing the best team is to have players that play near or below their true cap value.

If the financial doom and gloom that has been projected for the following season comes to fruition, Sather can use that as an excuse to bury Redden.

In the meantime, the team will only have the financial firepower to put together a middle of the road team. It sucks, yes, but we can only hope that Sather and Co. dig their way out (and no, Kotalik at 3m/3yrs doesn't help one bit).

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09-18-2009, 03:36 PM
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Drury will be a Ranger for the rest of his contract unless we have the amnesty buy outs next offseason which has been speculated.

As for Wade.......this is make it or break it. He is going to quickly find himself being cut a year from now and being sent to Hartford's training camp if he doesn't pull it together. That is of course unless we have the amnesty buy out period. Then both players will be gone.

As for Rozsival, he becomes very tradeable after this season to a bottom dweller team that needs to get to the cap floor but doesn't want to pay a high salary.

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09-18-2009, 03:42 PM
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Sather would best serve the Rangers by either retiring or going skydiving without a parachute.

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09-18-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoBlueshirts View Post
I will be praying to the hockey gods for an amnesty buyout at the end of this season.
That would be awesome for us. We'd buy out Redden and I think we'll be able to trade Rozi next year anyways. Rozi's contract only pays him 3.5 a year for the last two and, even though his cap hit is 5, I'm sure a smaller market team with the space would be fine paying him 3.5. Especially if he plays well this year. That would free up 11 million between those players alone. Yeah, some guys are going to get RFA raises but, honestly, we might have some decent room next year.

Kovalchuk

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Old
09-18-2009, 03:46 PM
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Ola
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Guys, whats the option other then getting rid of them?

Playing with 13.550.000 less capspace every season? Please give it a go, could any other team in this league compete if they had to dump 13.550.000m? Detroit? Pittsburgh? SJ? Boston? There is maybe a couple of teams who could fight for a PO spot...

We don't have much to start with -- and we are wasting 13.550.000m. It just do not add up. It will never add up.

Like frozenrubber perfectly put it;
Quote:
The key to icing the best team is to have players that play near or below their true cap value.
I agree 100%. You must have a lot of bargins along with a ton of talent inorder to compete. We have very little talent. And the two worst deals in the league.

Is the option to suck for 3-5 years? How can that ever even be a option in NY? With Lundqvist between the pipes we would never get any top 3-5 picks either, you know we would sit somewhere between 8th and 12th in the East.

They have to go at almost all costs -- I am telling you guys.

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09-18-2009, 03:48 PM
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I guarantee Wade Redden will have an amazing year... I just get that feeling.

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09-18-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Drury is playing here until his contract expires or he retires early, get over it already.
I wouldn't be so sure. If we need to clear cap space and there's no other way, Drury could be bought out next year or the year after. Buyout next year:

YEAR CAP HIT
2010-2011 $1,216,667
2011-2012 $4,216,667
2012-2013 $2,166,667
2013-2014 $2,166,667

Buyout in 2011:

YEAR CAP HIT
2011-2012 $3,716,667
2012-2013 $1,666,667

This is more of a last resort though. We don't want to carry dead cap hits if we can avoid it.

Redden is the bigger problem as he has too many years left to reasonably think about buying him out. And the odds of him being traded are slim. The only hopes for dumping him are the AHL or retirement, but I don't see either happening in the next 2 years.

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09-18-2009, 03:50 PM
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Preseason has shown me that there are a lot of guys that are fringe NHL players, a lot of guys that are established NHL players, but a special NHL player is very rare. Under the salary cap we pay 4 guys like they are special players but we really only have two. Just imagine if we had any of the other 7M forwards and Dmen. Lets just say Bouwmeester and Spezza. I could have picked better and I could have picked worse.

Prospal-Spezza-Gaborik
Higgins-Dubinsky-Callahan
Avery-Anisimov-Kotalik
Lisin-Boyle-Brashear

Bouwmeester-Staal
Roszival-Girardi
Gilroy-MDZ

Thats one hell of a team.

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09-18-2009, 03:57 PM
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Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Preseason has shown me that there are a lot of guys that are fringe NHL players, a lot of guys that are established NHL players, but a special NHL player is very rare. Under the salary cap we pay 4 guys like they are special players but we really only have two. Just imagine if we had any of the other 7M forwards and Dmen. Lets just say Bouwmeester and Spezza. I could have picked better and I could have picked worse.

Prospal-Spezza-Gaborik
Higgins-Dubinsky-Callahan
Avery-Anisimov-Kotalik
Lisin-Boyle-Brashear

Bouwmeester-Staal
Roszival-Girardi
Gilroy-MDZ

Thats one hell of a team.
Thats very fair reasoning and that would be a contender, atleast with some time. Right now, having a contender before 2014 is something we only can dream of since we are wasting 13.550.000 of capspace on a 3rd line center and a 5th D.

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say on this subject and won't post more about it.

People will get what I am talking about with time.


Last edited by Ola: 09-18-2009 at 04:05 PM.
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09-18-2009, 03:58 PM
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Just dump Redden. He's a 2 mil dollar player getting 3 times his salary. All the rookies on D are putting him to shame so far.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:12 PM
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I don't think we'll ever be able to ditch Drury. Luckily his deal is already 40% done, 60% after this year. The key will be to move Redden and Rozsival as soon as the kids are ready to step up on D. If we could do that, having Drury for the remainder of his contract wouldn't be so bad.

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09-18-2009, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I don't think we'll ever be able to ditch Drury. Luckily his deal is already 40% done, 60% after this year. The key will be to move Redden and Rozsival as soon as the kids are ready to step up on D. If we could do that, having Drury for the remainder of his contract wouldn't be so bad.
Honestly I feel like this organization is too afraid to move Redden and Rozsival in some aspects. They fear going through the growing pains of young defenseman. Heck Tortorella himself admitted that he only has two TRUE veterans in those two and the Staal and Girardi are still young themselves.

It would not be unrealistic to see a blueline consisting of

Staal-Gilroy
Girardi-Del Zotto
Redden-Sanguinetti

in the future in terms of players being ready. The only question is whether the organization will do it.

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09-18-2009, 04:36 PM
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I realize I may be in the minority here but I'm not a proponent of getting rid of Drury at all. Yes, he is overpaid and the contract is bad. However, given the state of the current team. We have a ton of young players but none of them have really established a true identity yet. You need those veterans to guide the young ones and be a leader, and Drury is as good of one as you can ask for. Drury might not live up to his contract statistically, but one thing that can and will never be questioned is his effort, commitment, dedication, and leadership. Those are the types of things you need to pass on to the youth. Right now are 3 big locks as franchise players are Gaborik (27) Lundqvist (27) and Staal (22), and we have tons upon tons of youth waiting to get a job with the big club. As it stands Drury will be on his current contract for 3 more years, and I think we can swallow that. By the time his contract is up we'll really be ready to contend.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:43 PM
  #20
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The Redden signing will haunt this team for years to come. One of the biggest managerial blunders in NHL history.

I'd move Drury if the possibility came up and made sense, but he and his contract aren't nearly as big a problem as Redden and his. Heck, I'm hoping Drury will just re-sign for a far more reasonable deal once this one expires. I like him.

I guess if someone was stupid enough to take on Gomez, maybe someone would be even dumber and trade for Redden. Hard to believe. though? Who would have interest in paying a bottom-pairing defenseman who brings hardly anything to the table 6.5 million for half a decade?

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09-18-2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Drury is playing here until his contract expires or he retires early, get over it already.
I concur

and as for Redden lets just pray they allow one buy out per team that won't go on the cap

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:49 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
...must be to get rid of Chris Drury and Wade Redden. At almost all costs.

I may be guilty of overreacting as often as anyone else on this board. But this is not a case of that. This is not a rant nor a knee jerk reaction. I've never been more sure of anything I have ever written on the internet. I often post things I know that I may come to regret. I am absolutely 100% sure I will never change my mind on this subject, objectivly and subjectivly I just can't be wrong.

We are wasting 13.550.000 on thoose two players. You just can not do that with how the league looks now with a cap that have not gone up by around 8-9% per season as it did when thoose players signed.

Everyone with any knowledge expected the cap to keep gooing up by almost 10% per season before the crisis and when Redden and Drury signed here. If the cap had kept gooing up by around 8-10% per season wed hit around 62 this year, 68 in two years and 74m in three years (the end of Drury's deal), 80m and 88m at the end of Redden's contract. Now that may be seen as a exceptional growth for the NHL, but atleast somewhere in that neighborhood was definitly reasonable to expect. Like if the league had a 5-6% increase there would have been a big zero real growth because that would only equal the expected inflation.

With a 80+m cap you can waste 6m on a over the hill vet D. Thats like wasting 3.8m today.

But the conditions have changed since thoose two signed.

Just look around the league. Can anyone find one team that could compete with 13.550.000 less capspace? Please help me search for one:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/

Detroit definitly could not. They'd have to dump like Rafalski (6m), Franzen (3.955), Cleary (2.8) and Holmström (2.5) while replacing thoose 4 rosterplayers with .500 players. Since they already have lost Hossa, Huddler and Samuelsson from last season I just couldn't see how they could compete really.

Pittsburgh would have to dump something like Sergei Gonchar (5m), Jordan Staal (4m), Chris Kunitz (3,75) and Pascal Dupuis/Fedetenko (1.5/1.8).

Chicago then? They have a lot of cheap good players. Could they compete if they were forced to dump 13.550.000? Campbell (7.144), Hossa (5) and Kopecky (1.2). While looking through the league Chicago is the team thats closest IMO along with Nashville that have a ton of capspace open.

But just by looking at other teams you really realize how insane it is to belive that we can compete with the best while spending 13.550.000 m of capspace on a below avg nr 3 D and a avg 3rd line center who is decent on the PP. Its hard to find another team in this league who even could compete for a PO spot if they had to dump 13.550.000 m.

I know that many have some sympathy with Drury or/and Redden. I actually do to. But it is not about that, its about the cap hit they have. We cannot compete with that.

Others will bring up Rozsival, he is also not exactly of great value on the ice when looking at his cap hit. Well if we could find a deal that makes sense for him Id be all for that too, but then I would want atleast something in return. Its not about Rozsival, one bad contract does not make the two worst contracts in the NHL okey if you get what I mean.
Absolutely agree with you but unless Sather hires a hitman from the Gambino family I just don't see us crawling out from under this rock. I think they're resigned to letting Drury ride out the next three years--maybe trading him at the deadline in 11-12 but if he's still the captain and we're in a playoff spot or in the hunt for the spot--no way.

The Redden deal is just so incredibly bad--not only way out of line as far as remuneration but the 6 year length of term is insane--I don't see anyone ever taking him off of our hands. His may be the worst contract in the league. At best he shouldn't be making more than $3 mil per. Drury would be acceptable at $4 mil. Rozsival at $3.5.

BTW--watching Torts talking to the reporters on the Rangers site--I believe it's the 9/17 I found it interesting when asked about the defensemen he mentioned there were a few veterans he wasn't that crazy about. Considering the praise he heaped on Staal and Girardi after last years playoffs--especially Staal and considering Mara and Morris are already gone that really leaves only two guys--Redden and Rozsival.


Last edited by eco's bones: 09-18-2009 at 04:57 PM.
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Old
09-18-2009, 04:50 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
...must be to get rid of Chris Drury and Wade Redden. At almost all costs.
Sit down, take a breath, and stand back from the red button.

A good stock of young players is what a team needs to be successful. Every team will have their high priced ticket players on their roster and many teams have the guys who are overpaid for what they produce. The key to being successful is that you keep your roster full of cheaper players and to maintain enough cap space.

The Rangers largest suck on salary is concentrated on defense between Wade Deadend and Rozsival. Rozsival isn't completely unmovable and if the younger, cheaper Ranger defenseman prove they can play, he'll be shipped out this coming offseason. If Sather does it right, as he did with Gomez, he'll get some restocking in the process.

Drooly is a dud for what he makes but we're stuck with him until he calls it quits and again, so long as the Rangers continue to produce quality, young, cheap talent they'll stay under the cap. On top of that, it takes a couple of years for an ELC to run out and by time then, Drooly will be gone.

Mistakes would be to panic and pay other teams with picks and prospects to take overpaid players. This removes your ability to produce quality young talent.

It'd also be a mistake to trade Drooly, because although he's not worth anything near what he makes, the Rangers would be worse off if they didn't have him at center (and without Dubinsky, center is looking thin). By time Stepan is stepping into NY, Drooly will be stepping out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Drury is playing here until his contract expires or he retires early, get over it already.
Unfortunately, you're correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I concur

and as for Redden lets just pray they allow one buy out per team that won't go on the cap
There's hope. If the current economic conditions don't prompt something, maybe the next CBA, which Deadends contract would extend into, will.

That said, a GM isn't going to be inclined to have admittedly wasted an owner's money.

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09-18-2009, 04:52 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
I realize I may be in the minority here but I'm not a proponent of getting rid of Drury at all. Yes, he is overpaid and the contract is bad. However, given the state of the current team. We have a ton of young players but none of them have really established a true identity yet. You need those veterans to guide the young ones and be a leader, and Drury is as good of one as you can ask for. Drury might not live up to his contract statistically, but one thing that can and will never be questioned is his effort, commitment, dedication, and leadership. Those are the types of things you need to pass on to the youth. Right now are 3 big locks as franchise players are Gaborik (27) Lundqvist (27) and Staal (22), and we have tons upon tons of youth waiting to get a job with the big club. As it stands Drury will be on his current contract for 3 more years, and I think we can swallow that. By the time his contract is up we'll really be ready to contend.
Part of this lack of identity comes from Drury's kind of bland personality.

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09-18-2009, 05:17 PM
  #25
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it's not number one priority right now, since this year i think we can go with what we have. but in the next years he has to at least get rid of redden somehow. otherwise it will hard to turn this team into a real contender anytime soon.

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