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Patrick Marleau or Miko Koivu?

View Poll Results: Well?
Patty 58 46.03%
Miko 68 53.97%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:22 PM
  #1
Puckgenius*
 
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Patrick Marleau or Miko Koivu?

Who's the better player? I say miko. Plus he will only get better. Patty IMO is already maxed out.

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:40 PM
  #2
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Very even. Both are top notch 2nd line centers, or decent first line centers. If I had to choose one for the Sens to play in between Chechoo/Michalek and Kovalev, I would choose Marleau.

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Old
09-19-2009, 01:26 PM
  #3
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I may be alone with this comment, but i seriously think that Koivu is already top15 center in this league. And i hope he proves it to everybody this upcoming season. So yeah, my answer is Koivu.

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Old
09-19-2009, 01:31 PM
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TheGooooch
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Marleau.

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Old
09-19-2009, 01:49 PM
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Mikko. I don't like him at all because he's dirty, but Marleau is so overrated.

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09-19-2009, 02:20 PM
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Marluea and its not even close

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Old
09-19-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doothpick View Post
I may be alone with this comment, but i seriously think that Koivu is already top15 center in this league. And i hope he proves it to everybody this upcoming season. So yeah, my answer is Koivu.
crosby, carter, richards, thornton, getzlaf, savard, spezza, eric staal, lecavalier, toews, marleau. thats 11 centers already who i would put way ahead of koivu at this point. and they are just the canadian centers.

then you can add malkin, datzyuk, semin, backstrom, sedin. and those are all the ones way above koivu. there are a few more that could be argued are better then koivu but not by much.

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Old
09-20-2009, 07:53 AM
  #8
SixthSens
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Mikko Koivu

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Old
09-20-2009, 08:03 AM
  #9
tony d
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Patrick Marleau.

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Old
09-20-2009, 08:47 AM
  #10
urho
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Originally Posted by eric71 View Post
Marluea and its not even close
If Marleau is better, it definately is close. But I chose Mikko.

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Old
09-20-2009, 09:37 AM
  #11
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Mikko is one of the most underrated players in the league. A great player.

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Old
09-20-2009, 09:40 AM
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broad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
crosby, carter, richards, thornton, getzlaf, savard, spezza, eric staal, lecavalier, toews, marleau. thats 11 centers already who i would put way ahead of koivu at this point. and they are just the canadian centers.

then you can add malkin, datzyuk, semin, backstrom, sedin. and those are all the ones way above koivu. there are a few more that could be argued are better then koivu but not by much.
If you think Alex Semin is a center, then your opinion on this is probably not worth noting.

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Old
09-20-2009, 11:41 AM
  #13
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I deeply and passionately hate finnish players, but Koivu is better.

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Old
09-20-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
crosby, carter, richards, thornton, getzlaf, savard, spezza, eric staal, lecavalier, toews, marleau. thats 11 centers already who i would put way ahead of koivu at this point. and they are just the canadian centers.

then you can add malkin, datzyuk, semin, backstrom, sedin. and those are all the ones way above koivu. there are a few more that could be argued are better then koivu but not by much.
Toews is not a better player than Koivu right now. I wish this myth about Toews already being elite would stop. Hands down the most overrated player in the league. He is going to be a very very good player for along time, but his production is nowhere near any of the other guys you have listed.

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Toews is not a better player than Koivu right now. I wish this myth about Toews already being elite would stop. Hands down the most overrated player in the league. He is going to be a very very good player for along time, but his production is nowhere near any of the other guys you have listed.
no you're wrong... anyone you're arguing with, the player they are promoting or defending is ALWAYS the most over-rated player, even if his name is Crosby

but I voted for Patty because Koivu is over rated

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:37 PM
  #16
polmaniac932
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Can any of you give me reasons as to why Mikko is better? I'm amazed at how lopsided this poll is.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by polmaniac932 View Post
Can any of you give me reasons as to why Mikko is better? I'm amazed at how lopsided this poll is.
I'm as confused as you are.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:04 PM
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Koivu was point per game on a crappy offensive team and Marleau wasn't even though he's on the best team in the league playing with Jumbo Joe and he's a playoff choker that somehow manages to avoid any blame at all.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CrosbyCrosby View Post
Marleau wasn't even though he's on the best team in the league playing with Jumbo Joe and he's a playoff choker that somehow manages to avoid any blame at all.
LOL! You are so knowledgeable!

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Old
09-20-2009, 04:59 PM
  #20
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koivu has a higher ceiling.

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Old
09-20-2009, 06:28 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyCrosby View Post
Koivu was point per game on a crappy offensive team and Marleau wasn't even though he's on the best team in the league playing with Jumbo Joe and he's a playoff choker that somehow manages to avoid any blame at all.
point per game? so 67 points in 79 games is point per game now?

i like how every one states someone is a point per game, when he's never once been close.

marleau has atleast hit a point per game in 2 seasons.

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Old
09-20-2009, 06:34 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polmaniac932 View Post
Can any of you give me reasons as to why Mikko is better? I'm amazed at how lopsided this poll is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonAJ View Post
I'm as confused as you are.
Mikko Koivu was able to post 20G-67pts on a offensively inept team under Jacques Lemaire. His wingers were a rotation of Owen Nolan, Antti Miettinen, Andrew Brunette and occasionally PM Bouchard. Since his rookie season he's been on an upward trend offensively and is still improving each game. Aside from his offensive play, he was personally, my choice for the Selke trophy. He is absolutely incredible at the defensive side of the game and is truly a heart and soul player for the Minnesota Wild. Koivu is the captain of the Minnesota Wild and is truly the definition of a "franchise player". At 26, his game is steadily improving, and with the offensive additions of Havlat, Sykora to a forward core including such names as Brunnete, Bouchard, Miettinen, Nolan and young players like Sheppard and Gillies with tremendous puckmovers Burns and Zidlicky on the backend all under a new offensive coach Todd Richards, I am expecting big things from Mikko offensively and defensively.

To answer the question at hand, my answer is obviously Mikko Koivu. He has been able to make due with much less than Marleau, and is the type of player that leads a team, rather than follows. In my opinion, he is a better captain and better defensive player to boot. This is not even consider Koivu is 4 years younger than Marleau, and that Marleau played with Thornton, Setoguchi, Michalek, Clowe, Pavelski and Boyle in an offensive system on a regular basis. That's a farcry from what Koivu was playing with/under. Truly, no knock on Marleau's abilities but Koivu is simply a better player, and more of a winner in my eyes.

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Old
09-20-2009, 06:43 PM
  #23
polmaniac932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyCrosby View Post
Koivu was point per game on a crappy offensive team and Marleau wasn't even though he's on the best team in the league playing with Jumbo Joe and he's a playoff choker that somehow manages to avoid any blame at all.
The old "well he's on a stacked team" excuse. Marleau is in the middle of his prime, and might just have an even better year this upcoming season. A lot of Sharks fans argue that he was our best player last year. Say what you want about Thornton, but that's pretty impressive given his company on the team. He was our top goal-scorer, dangerous on the PP and at even strength, and was our best penalty-killer (AND short-handed threat)...and let me highlight that last part with this ridiculous statistic: up until sometime beyond the halfway mark of the season (I'm not exactly sure when it was), when Marleau was on the ice during a PK, the Sharks had more goals for on the PK than goals against. I don't think anyone on the Sharks is more versatile than Marleau is.

The poll is much more even now...earlier it was about 20% voted Marleau, and the other 80 for Koivu. I just don't see it as that definitive of a difference, especially when you take into account everything I just mentioned, along with the fact that he regularly outscores Koivu. I can't say I know enough about Koivu to say who is better, but hell, I picked Marleau because I'm a Sharks fan. Sue me.

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Old
09-20-2009, 06:45 PM
  #24
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Koivu right now.

We're going to see this kid flourish when not under a hardcore defensive system.

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Old
09-20-2009, 07:06 PM
  #25
matt trick
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Quote:
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Mikko Koivu was able to post 20G-67pts on a offensively inept team under Jacques Lemaire. His wingers were a rotation of Owen Nolan, Antti Miettinen, Andrew Brunette and occasionally PM Bouchard. Since his rookie season he's been on an upward trend offensively and is still improving each game. Aside from his offensive play, he was personally, my choice for the Selke trophy. He is absolutely incredible at the defensive side of the game and is truly a heart and soul player for the Minnesota Wild. Koivu is the captain of the Minnesota Wild and is truly the definition of a "franchise player". At 26, his game is steadily improving, and with the offensive additions of Havlat, Sykora to a forward core including such names as Brunnete, Bouchard, Miettinen, Nolan and young players like Sheppard and Gillies with tremendous puckmovers Burns and Zidlicky on the backend all under a new offensive coach Todd Richards, I am expecting big things from Mikko offensively and defensively.

To answer the question at hand, my answer is obviously Mikko Koivu. He has been able to make due with much less than Marleau, and is the type of player that leads a team, rather than follows. In my opinion, he is a better captain and better defensive player to boot. This is not even consider Koivu is 4 years younger than Marleau, and that Marleau played with Thornton, Setoguchi, Michalek, Clowe, Pavelski and Boyle in an offensive system on a regular basis. That's a farcry from what Koivu was playing with/under. Truly, no knock on Marleau's abilities but Koivu is simply a better player, and more of a winner in my eyes.
Is it really fair to say that he is more of a winner when Koivu has been involved for three wins for his franchise, while Marleau has taken his team to the conference finals, and is among the leaders in playoff goals post lockout (I believe Zetterberg and Iginla are the only ones higher, though Franzen may have joined them). I understand Marleau takes a lot of the blame, and some of it is rightfully earned, but come on, taking a guy who has never even advanced to the second round to be more than a winner. To be fair, Koivu has not had the players that Marleau has been able to work with, but Patty led the team in playoff points and beyond the second round before Thornton, Boyle, Vlasic, Setoguchi, Michalek, or Clowe were even on the team.

I am also willing to buy that Koivu is better defensively, and the difference should only grow in his favor, but Marleau is the best defensive player on a team that was the best in the league. Marleau is probably in the top 10-20 defensive forwards in the league, Koivu is almost certainly top 10, but the difference isn't massive. Furthermore, Marleau is one of the top shorthanded threats in the league.

Offensively, you can point to Koivu having weaker linemates, but at the same time Marleau put up 86 and 78 points with two rookies Michalek and Bernier or Pavelski and Clowe. He was also on pace for 90 for a good portion of the year. He fell off a bit, but would have almost certainly put up 80 had he not been injured. The same may be said for Koivu however, I don't know the extent of his injuries. Also, I am not sure how much better linemates correlates to higher production. It can and frequently does, but improved linemates does not always mean improved production. Marleau's production fell off from his year with Michalek and Bernier, after being moved up with Thornton last year. Surely, they should have risen? However, I can tell you that last year was Marleau's best year both offensively and defensively. I know this by watching just about every game he has played in his career. If you put someone like Heatley on Koivu's line his points should in theory go up, but sometimes better linemates means the opportunities and therefore points are more spread out.

With regards to leadership, Marleau was voted fourth best Captain in a survey of the all the players in the league. You could argue that this may have been overstated, and using the evidence of the captaincy being stripped, you may very well have a case, but he is in my eyes still a very good leader. I am sure Koivu is also an excellent leader, but ranking them in this area is highly subjective.

Finally, I am unsure how Koivu's age has to do with anything. I believe the question was who is the best player, for which age is not relevant. Had the question been who has more potential, or who would you rather have that would have been completely relevant, but it wasn't.

In short, I take Marleau despite his flaws, but it is very close, and Koivu should overtake him soon enough.

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