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Burke new goalie coach, Dave King assistant coach, Fuhr new position [mod edit]

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:37 AM
  #26
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A goalie coach more or less is the same as a hitting coach in baseball. Rarely are they analyzed or criticized much but a good one can make all the difference. It seems they drafted Gistedt, thinking he'd be the second coming of Lundqvist, while conveniently forgetting that whole "Allaire-brother-needed" part of the packaging. With both he and Montoya here, in addition to new management, I wonder if Benoit would come back here from the Rangers? And with Giggy (soon) and Bryz gone from Anaheim would Francois come here?

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09-20-2009, 02:30 AM
  #27
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Francois's with the other Burkie in Toronto. Don't think he'll be leavin anytime soon, what with they're new young goalie they picked up.

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09-20-2009, 04:46 AM
  #28
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I love Sean Burke. You can't be a Coyotes fan and not love Sean Burke. Still, this is TNT. Look at how hard core Burke is, and then look at how head strong Bryzgalov is. This could end up anywhere from monumental success to complete nuclear melt down.

Still, Fuhr is a total non-factor. Bryz needs some work. Something must be tried. I'll take a one year risk. Why not?

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09-20-2009, 09:29 AM
  #29
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Looking at the goalies that have come into or been with the organization during Fuhr's time in the desert, it is hard to make a case that he has helped any of them improve significantly.

During Fuhr's heyday, he was able to allow 2 or 3 goals against/game and would generally still come away with a 'dubya', because the Oil would score 4 or more goals on most nights. His reflexes were legendary and in the big games he always seemed to be able to kick it up a notch.

The play of modern goaltenders has evolved. Fuhr was able to read the play extremely well but he pretty much had no specific style. He relied on his instincts and reflexes, but how do you teach those to other goalies?

In a way, he may be in a similar boat as Gretzky in this regard. As players, both seemed to have that special something that a player either has or never seems to be able to get.

This may be unfair, but as someone looking in from the outside, I wonder if Fuhr ever was close enough to the team, or specifically the goalies of the Coyotes, to make a significant contribution to their development.

Sean Burke, who was regarded as the new rookie sensation when he first joined the Devils, sat out an entire season due to a contract dispute with New Jersey. His first winning season (above .500 record) wouldn't come until 10 years into his professional career and it always seemed that he had to work very hard for everything that he achieved.

Upon coming to Phoenix and training under Allaire, he re-invented himself as a quality netminder and a natural leader. In his second season in the desert, he was a finalist for the Vezina trophy and seemed to be winning some games on his own.

If he can even remotely be as good as the goalie coach he learned from while with the Coyotes, he will be a tremendous asset to the organization.

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09-20-2009, 10:31 AM
  #30
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I'm all in on hiring Sean Burke as the goalie coach.

He showed in his career that he was coachable. He was a cerebral, positional goalie rather than a reflex goalie. That is a teachable skill

Could he conflict personality wise with Bryz? Possibly. Bryz has not shown enough yet to be above a coach, however. He has alos shown a knack for getting in a bad groove. That has to be addressed by coaching.

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09-20-2009, 01:44 PM
  #31
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I don't want to be the party pooper, here, but doesn't the title of this thread need some work? "News Article"? Isn't that a stretch? We've got a blog, citing a twitter account of a guy who works for hockeybuzz that wrote that he's "hearing" that Fuhr has been re-assigned within the organization. To me, that much more closely resembles a "rumor" than a "news article". I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the validity of this development.
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09-20-2009, 06:46 PM
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1) Burke was a thinking man's goalie. He turned skills that were just a bit above average into a pretty decent career, and he did it by finding ways to use technique and strategy to supplement talent instead of relying completely upon it. That will translate very well to coaching.
Burke was actually pretty athletic when he was a younger man. He was thought to be the savior of the Devils at one point because of his athletic ability. His problem was that he was not a thinking man's goalie most of his career. He relied almost exclusively on his athletic ability to make saves. It was not until he landed in Phoenix, his already mediocre career looking to be nearly over because of the slow erosion of his athletic skills and had Benoit Allaire screw his head back on straight did he become a thinking man's goalie.

I remember him talking about how when he was younger he would be flopping all over the place working really hard to make saves. He could never understand why he would watch Belfour hardly move and have the puck hit him in the chest over and over again. He said Allaire finally taught him why Belfour and other goalies with correct positioning and technique did not have to work as hard as he did. Allaire taught Burke to work smarter instead of harder and it paid off. Burke learned the hard way how to play the position the right way.

Bryzgalov has already studied the Allaire system in Anaheim. He needs someone to keep him on track. Bryzgalov is still young and athletic enough to be a very good goalie. Getting one of the Allaire brothers would be ideal, but since that probably is not an option I cannot think of anyone in a better position to give Bryzgalov exactly what he needs other than Burke. I would not be surprised if Burke can see a lot of himself in Bryzgalov and that Bryzgalov has the chance to learn earlier what Burke did not learn until near the end of his career.

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09-20-2009, 07:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
I would not be surprised if Burke can see a lot of himself in Bryzgalov ...
I'd be suprised if he didn't. They're both big, tough, firey guys with strong personalities. The problem is that sometimes, when someone see themself in another person, it leads to more conflict than anything. Really, I see this relationship as a big time boom or bust scenario. At the same time, given our situation, I think it's a no-brainer. You've got to roll the dice on this.

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09-20-2009, 08:16 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Burke was actually pretty athletic when he was a younger man. He was thought to be the savior of the Devils at one point because of his athletic ability. His problem was that he was not a thinking man's goalie most of his career. He relied almost exclusively on his athletic ability to make saves. It was not until he landed in Phoenix, his already mediocre career looking to be nearly over because of the slow erosion of his athletic skills and had Benoit Allaire screw his head back on straight did he become a thinking man's goalie.

I remember him talking about how when he was younger he would be flopping all over the place working really hard to make saves. He could never understand why he would watch Belfour hardly move and have the puck hit him in the chest over and over again. He said Allaire finally taught him why Belfour and other goalies with correct positioning and technique did not have to work as hard as he did. Allaire taught Burke to work smarter instead of harder and it paid off. Burke learned the hard way how to play the position the right way.

Bryzgalov has already studied the Allaire system in Anaheim. He needs someone to keep him on track. Bryzgalov is still young and athletic enough to be a very good goalie. Getting one of the Allaire brothers would be ideal, but since that probably is not an option I cannot think of anyone in a better position to give Bryzgalov exactly what he needs other than Burke. I would not be surprised if Burke can see a lot of himself in Bryzgalov and that Bryzgalov has the chance to learn earlier what Burke did not learn until near the end of his career.
I think this post hits the proverbial nail on the head.

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09-20-2009, 10:25 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Matzel View Post
I think this post hits the proverbial nail on the head.
Second that. That was a great response.

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09-21-2009, 12:03 AM
  #36
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You know, I wonder if Sean Burke might not be of some help to Jason "Don't call me Antonio" LaBarbera, as well. JLB is a bit of an enigma, himself. He's gigantic for a goaltender at 6'3 230lbs, and has been absolutely stellar at the AHL level. He's won the award league MVP down there, as well as twice the awards for lowest goals against average, and best goaltender in the same years. His career AHL goals against is tiny and his save percentage is huge. For some reason, though, he hasn't been able to find any consistancy, at all, in the NHL. I'm really hoping this Burke/Fuhr rumor is true. I'd love to see what Burke can do with these guys.

I must say, though, I'm very confused by the whole LaBarbera signing, in the first place. I mean we give him a two year, one-way contract worth two million dollars, all the while knowing that Al Montoya will have to pass through waivers in order to be sent down. What the hell is up with that? I understand wanting to give Montoya a push, and wanting to have some competant veteren insurance, but what's with the multi-year, multi-million dollar, one-way deal? It kind of handcuffs us, doesn't it? We may as well have waived Montoya the day we signed JLB. It was essentially a foregone conclusion at that point, anyhow, right? It's not like the Phoenix Coyotes, of all teams, are going to be eager to pay NHL salaries to AHLers. Especially considering that Anaheim has already assigned two goaltenders to San Antonio's camp. Things are pretty crowded in net, down there, as it is. Money is pretty tight up here. The way I see it, Montoya is a goner. Which strikes me as odd considering how well he played at the end of last season. I thought he earned another shot. I guess not.

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09-21-2009, 01:55 AM
  #37
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You know, I wonder if Sean Burke might not be of some help to Jason "Don't call me Antonio" LaBarbera, as well. JLB is a bit of an enigma, himself. He's gigantic for a goaltender at 6'3 230lbs, and has been absolutely stellar at the AHL level. He's won the award league MVP down there, as well as twice the awards for lowest goals against average, and best goaltender in the same years. His career AHL goals against is tiny and his save percentage is huge. For some reason, though, he hasn't been able to find any consistancy, at all, in the NHL. I'm really hoping this Burke/Fuhr rumor is true. I'd love to see what Burke can do with these guys.

I must say, though, I'm very confused by the whole LaBarbera signing, in the first place. I mean we give him a two year, one-way contract worth two million dollars, all the while knowing that Al Montoya will have to pass through waivers in order to be sent down. What the hell is up with that? I understand wanting to give Montoya a push, and wanting to have some competant veteren insurance, but what's with the multi-year, multi-million dollar, one-way deal? It kind of handcuffs us, doesn't it? We may as well have waived Montoya the day we signed JLB. It was essentially a foregone conclusion at that point, anyhow, right? It's not like the Phoenix Coyotes, of all teams, are going to be eager to pay NHL salaries to AHLers. Especially considering that Anaheim has already assigned two goaltenders to San Antonio's camp. Things are pretty crowded in net, down there, as it is. Money is pretty tight up here. The way I see it, Montoya is a goner. Which strikes me as odd considering how well he played at the end of last season. I thought he earned another shot. I guess not.
The thing is LaBarbera has been good at the NHL level as a starter but no one knows about it. I've been following the kings since 2005 and have watched LaBarbera since he pulled on a Kings uniform.

If memory serves, in 2005 (it was either 2005 or 2006) he was part of a Goaltending tandem with Garon in LA. He put up some lights out numbers until he left the team for personal reasons for a few weeks. When he came back to the Kings he wasn't the same.

The problem with LaBarbera's time in LA is 1) The Kings front office/goaltending coaches at the time were completely incompetent. 2) In LA He had swiss cheese defense in front of him that made his numbers worse than he actually was. 3) Years of losing in a Kings organization that was ok with losing year in and year out didn't help his game. As a result...4) he became the whipping boy by the Kings fans for the Kings front office incompetence.

I mean if you put MAF or Osgood in net on those Kings teams they would have had equal or worse numbers than LaBarbera did during his time with the Kings.

LaBarbera has skills. He may not be Luongo but he's got skills. All he needs is a good to great defense in front of him and he'll show his stuff.

Here's some more I wrote about it when he was signed:

http://coyotes.azvibe.com/2009/07/02...ear-contracts/

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Old
09-21-2009, 02:27 AM
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From all reports, the absolute softies Labs has let in this preseason and even in training camp give a good indication of his streakiness. I'd really, really just prefer to put Montoya in there. What do we gain/lose in the short team by having El Cubano in there over LaBarbara? Not a whole lot, I'd wager.

When Tellqvist was on he was impenetrable. When he was off his game it was as if every shot was a bullet he had to dodge. Can we please get something in between? I'm not a fan of bipolar borderline-NHL goalies.

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09-21-2009, 03:10 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
You know, I wonder if Sean Burke might not be of some help to Jason "Don't call me Antonio" LaBarbera, as well.
Now that you bring up the back ups, Montoya has actually had an introduction to the Allaire school himself. I know many here, I believe that includes you, believe that Benoit was originally in favor of drafting Montoya because he was sure he was a good fit for the system.

It's an interesting question for me. I have a lot of faith that Burke can take an NHL goalie that already knows the system (i.e. Bryzgalov) and help him iron out his bad habits day to day. I have no idea if Burke is a good enough teacher to take a more raw talent and actually teach that player the system.

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I'm not a fan of bipolar borderline-NHL goalies.
That is a problem most NHL teams face in their back up. There are plenty of teams that face that in their starter.

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09-21-2009, 10:54 AM
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The thing is LaBarbera has been good at the NHL level as a starter but no one knows about it. I've been following the kings since 2005 and have watched LaBarbera since he pulled on a Kings uniform.

/[/url]
I've watched LaBarbera both when he first emerged with the Rangers and then in Los Angeles. He as been good -- at times. He's also been awful. I couldn't understand this signing whgen it happened because he has been nothing more than a borderline NHL goaltender for years. There were much better options available.

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09-21-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
The thing is LaBarbera has been good at the NHL level as a starter but no one knows about it. I've been following the kings since 2005 and have watched LaBarbera since he pulled on a Kings uniform.

If memory serves, in 2005 (it was either 2005 or 2006) he was part of a Goaltending tandem with Garon in LA. He put up some lights out numbers until he left the team for personal reasons for a few weeks. When he came back to the Kings he wasn't the same.
He was also playing the cake teams. I don't remember the exact stats but Garon was playing against teams with a winning percentage and LaBarbera played against teams with a below .500 record.
You are correct that He wasn't the same after his personal emergency.


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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
The problem with LaBarbera's time in LA is 1) The Kings front office/goaltending coaches at the time were completely incompetent. 2) In LA He had swiss cheese defense in front of him that made his numbers worse than he actually was. 3) Years of losing in a Kings organization that was ok with losing year in and year out didn't help his game. As a result...4) he became the whipping boy by the Kings fans for the Kings front office incompetence.
Yes and No.

Labarbera was stuck in the minors the next season because He showed up to camp badly out of shape. He couldn't be called up because He would be claimed.

So the next season, He was pretty much handed the job as his chance to prove himself...

Quick and Ersberg more than exposed Labarbera. Quick was playing behind the same defense, same coaches and put up way better numbers.

08-09
Jonathan Quick 2.48 .914
Erik Ersberg 2.64 .900
Jason LaBarbera 2.83 .893

07-08
Jason LaBarbera 3.00 .910
Erik Ersberg 2.48 .927




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
I mean if you put MAF or Osgood in net on those Kings teams they would have had equal or worse numbers than LaBarbera did during his time with the Kings.
Quick and Ersberg prove this to be otherwise.


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Old
09-21-2009, 12:14 PM
  #42
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Looks to be true:

"I am thinking the rumor about Fuhyr is true....Ulf, Sully and Burke on the ice with the boys no Grant."
8 minutes ago from UberTwitter

http://twitter.com/HKYFN

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09-21-2009, 01:15 PM
  #43
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Coyotes hire Burke as goalie coach

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09-21-2009, 01:18 PM
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Could we really expect anything else?

I think pretty much everyone saw this coming about six months ago.

Also, King coming in as a new assistant coach. I think it's pretty much done, Wayne is out and Ulf is taking over.

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09-21-2009, 01:37 PM
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Also, King coming in as a new assistant coach. I think it's pretty much done, Wayne is out and Ulf is taking over.
I think it's more like Dave King will become head coach when TGO is officially gone as head coach.

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09-21-2009, 02:55 PM
  #46
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Dave King will make an impact!!!!!!!!!!!


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09-21-2009, 03:24 PM
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Detailed press release from the Coyotes:
http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=499281

Dave King:
Quote:
Kingís first stint as an NHL head coach came in Calgary where he led the Flames to a 109-76-31 record and a pair of division titles in three seasons (1992-93 to 1994-95). He then spent three seasons with the Montreal Canadiens, where he served as an assistant coach from 1997-99 and as Director of European Scouting in 1999-00.

On July 5, 2000, King was named the first head coach of the expansion Columbus Blue Jackets. In 2000-01, he led the Blue Jackets to a 28-39-9-6 record and 71 points, which ranked second among NHL expansion franchises (excluding the 1967-68 season when the NHL doubled in size from six to 12 franchises). The Blue Jackets also became the first expansion team since 1970 to post a better than .500 record at home, going 19-15-4-3 at Nationwide Arena.

King has spent the last five seasons coaching professionally in Russia and Germany. He has also received numerous awards during his coaching career. In recognition of his contributions to hockey, he received the Order of Canada Award in October of 1992 and was inducted into the Canadian Olympic Hall of Fame in 1995. In 1996, he joined Wayne Gretzky and the 1972 Team Canada squad as recipients of the inaugural Canadian Hockey Awards. King was also presented with the Father David Bauer Award for leadership. In 2001, he was inducted into the International Ice Hockey Federation Hall of Fame.
Grant Fuhr:
Quote:
Fuhr, who had served as the Coyotes Goaltending Coach since joining the organization in 2004, assumes the role of Director of Goaltender Development. He will be responsible for working with and monitoring the development of Coyotes goaltending prospects, including those in San Antonio, the teamís American Hockey League affiliate, and Las Vegas, the teamís ECHL affiliate. He will also scout Entry Draft-eligible goaltending prospects.

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09-21-2009, 03:36 PM
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With Wayne Gretzky is still in limbo, Ulfie Samuelsson is the nominal boss in Phoenix, with Doug Sulliman as the only other remaining returning member of the coaching staff. Sean Burke, who played for King on a handful of Canadian national teams, was added as a goalie coach today, replacing Grant Fuhr.

King and Burke have a history that dates back more than 20 years; and should be a good fit on a staff led by Samuelsson, who is privately getting good notices for his coaching acumen. For King, who has a winter home in Phoenix anyway, this is the perfect soft landing after coaching in Germany and Russia these past few years.

For a franchise operating on a shoestring budget, with no real sense of what happens next, King's veteran presence lends an aura of stability, just when the Coyotes need it most. Plus, he gets to coach the grandson of his long-time rival, Viktor Tikhonov. What could be sweeter than that?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs...rticle1295929/

Interesting.

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09-21-2009, 03:46 PM
  #49
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With King and Burke on the staff, it almost feels like we have a real hockey team again.

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09-21-2009, 04:17 PM
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Fuhr, who had served as the Coyotes Goaltending Coach since joining the organization in 2004, assumes the role of Director of Goaltender Development. He will be responsible for working with and monitoring the development of Coyotes goaltending prospects, including those in San Antonio, the teamís American Hockey League affiliate, and Las Vegas, the teamís ECHL affiliate. He will also scout Entry Draft-eligible goaltending prospects.
It's a good thing the Coyotes don't really have any goalie prospects.

I know there is decent golf available in Las Vegas. How's the golf in San Antonio?

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