HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Babchuk to Avangard Omsk (KHL)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-21-2009, 09:32 AM
  #26
StormCast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaniacFromAppState View Post
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1698919.html
Very interesting quote from the N&O
It's from Horse Trading 101. Don't devalue your horse until he's got a new owner.

StormCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 10:42 AM
  #27
WWAD
Registered User
 
WWAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 891
vCash: 500
Perhaps Avangard Omsk will ship us over a bag of pucks out of the goodness of their hearts. Then at least we will have gotten something for Babchuk.

WWAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 12:02 PM
  #28
Boom Boom Anton
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Comfortable or not, better to get something for him than nothing at all.
Not necessarily. What if the offer was a 5th round pick from a division rival (Washington or Florida for instance). I would rather have no compensation than a 5th round pick and sending him to a division rival.

I would have loved to get a prospect or early pick for AB, but unfortunately, that wasn't going to happen.

Personally, I think there were two problems. 1) handling of this early on by Rutherford. Sometimes he is just too upfront with his intentions and in this case, he really hurt his chances of getting any decent return.
2) Babchuk doesn't have as much value as he (and many fans) think he does.

Couldn't some team have just made an offer sheet for up to 1.5M and only given up a 3rd (or is it a 2nd)? Either they never put forward an offer because they didn't think he was worth enough or they did put forward an offer but Anton refused it because he wanted more. I guess we'll never know for sure.

Boom Boom Anton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 12:20 PM
  #29
Chrispy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
Up to $1.506 million per season was a third round pick this season.

$1.506 million to $3.013 million per season was a second round pick.

Chrispy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 12:38 PM
  #30
caniac247
Registered User
 
caniac247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh
Country: United States
Posts: 4,656
vCash: 500
I'm just glad to have this saga over atleast for this year.

No one knows what was offered from those 2 teams who were supposedly interested. For all we know it could have been a 5th round pick or some prospect who would never make it out of the AHL. Then people would be screaming that JR didn't get enough. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

But its now over for this season. Time to move on and look forward to the upcoming season.

caniac247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 12:43 PM
  #31
faulkingdynamic
J Troll
 
faulkingdynamic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,166
vCash: 500
If JR couldnt get a player they liked for Anton then there was no point in making a trade. Why would you make a trade for a guy that you have to pay and has no future in the organization. Do you really need to get another depth guy for the ECHL?? Its unlikely any of the offers would have given the Canes a decent AHL player who could have played on a team,that most of us believe will be amongst the best in the A. Getting anybody in return for Anton juts to ship him out would have been bad business, especially since Anton is still Canes property for this season and next, assuming the Russia rumors are true.

Now if picks were offered, i probably would have taken anything 5th round or better and trust my scouts will give me a proper return on Anton.

faulkingdynamic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 02:24 PM
  #32
canesnecu
 
canesnecu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,183
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
If JR couldnt get a player they liked for Anton then there was no point in making a trade. Why would you make a trade for a guy that you have to pay and has no future in the organization. Do you really need to get another depth guy for the ECHL?? Its unlikely any of the offers would have given the Canes a decent AHL player who could have played on a team,that most of us believe will be amongst the best in the A. Getting anybody in return for Anton juts to ship him out would have been bad business, especially since Anton is still Canes property for this season and next, assuming the Russia rumors are true.

Now if picks were offered, i probably would have taken anything 5th round or better and trust my scouts will give me a proper return on Anton.
Exactly. If the first offer was for some crap ECHL journeyman, I can see why JR wouldnt be comfortable just giving Bab away for free. If the second offer was for picks I could see how JR would have passed on the first one to consider the second. Maybe, just maybe the second offer got pulled off the table when push came to shove or JR thought he'd have a better shot next sumer getting something for him.

What I dont see the JR bashers ackowledging is that when Babs was brought back last summer, he was given a million dollar contract and not the league minimum of $450k. I bet plenty of other GM's would have only taken the risk for the minimum. Maybe JR felt that was a good faith raise for his 2 year commitment in return till he got his freedom. That 2 million for 2 years instead of the league and RFA minimums.

Forgive me oh critical ones if I have numbers wrong but Jr sure didnt have to bring back Babs for a million this past year.

canesnecu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 09:35 PM
  #33
Guerzy
Serenity
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by canesnecu View Post
Forgive me oh critical ones if I have numbers wrong but Jr sure didnt have to bring back Babs for a million this past year.

I absolutely agree with this. I had always thought JR overpaid for Babchuk when we brought him back last season. In all honesty, what did Anton ever do to warrant the 1 mill JR gave him last season? personally, I believe he did squat. Based on the prior events, Anton could have come back for league minimum to 750k (give or take) and I doubt many would have been bug eyed and stunned about it.

If it was me, Anton would have been brought back last summer for roughly anything between league minimum to $700-750,000. After his 16 goals this season, i'd have given 1.5 on a one year. If Anton made strides in his game and had approx. another 15 goal season (atleast, give or take a few), now we'll talk contract. Until then, play by the rules whether you like them or not, suck it up and go truly cement your worth in the greatest league in the world.

Guerzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 10:10 PM
  #34
vwg*
Scoring Not Allowed
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Krasnoyarsk
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 19,957
vCash: 500
Later Babchuk.

vwg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-21-2009, 10:27 PM
  #35
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23,080
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpuckhog View Post
Not necessarily. What if the offer was a 5th round pick from a division rival (Washington or Florida for instance). I would rather have no compensation than a 5th round pick and sending him to a division rival.
Well, if he's as defensively suspect as some here believe, we should have traded him to a divisional rival. Free goals, right?

Whether or not Babchuk was brought back for the league minimum is irrelevant. The point is he earned a raise from the amount he was making this past season. JR should take responsibility for his actions


Blueline Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2009, 05:27 PM
  #36
Benji Frank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,650
vCash: 500
Has there been confirmation that AB signed in Russia? Last i heard it was still just a rumour ... even with his agent!

i guess whatever market there was for him is drying up now anyway since he missed most of training camp......

Benji Frank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2009, 06:06 PM
  #37
Chrispy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
Babchuk is listed on the Omsk roster (translated).

However, I don't think he's played for them yet.

Chrispy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-26-2009, 10:53 PM
  #38
faulkingdynamic
J Troll
 
faulkingdynamic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,166
vCash: 500
Did anyone sees Chip's last columnette on Babchuk?? Babs signs for 1 year 1.5 mil in Russia....which is apparently exactly what the Canes offered him after the QO. This is the first i have heard about offering anything above the QO.

If this is factual then all the Babchuk supporters on this board might want to rethink their positions.

faulkingdynamic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 12:45 AM
  #39
Guerzy
Serenity
 
Guerzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,562
vCash: 200
Babchuk looks as dumb as a stump here. So now it comes out JR offered him 500k more than the original qualifying offer, interesting. So does it come down to Babchuk choosing home over the NHL? He did say he wanted to stay in the NHL. Same offer other than I believe there is a difference in taxes(?). Even if JR didn't increase the offer, Babchuk should have sucked it up and played in the best league in the world for a whopping 500k less and took the offer on the table from JR. Funny.. 500k is actually 'whopping' to me.. for some of these guys, it's peanuts. For Babchuk and his stance in the league and for the good of his career, he should have taken the offer on the table, cement his worth and do this dance again next year with some true bargaining leverage. How do you say idiot in Russian?

Guerzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 03:42 AM
  #40
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23,080
vCash: 500
Just a coincidence that it comes out that JR made a larger offer after Babchuk (and I'd assume his agent) are gone and can't confirm or deny it.

Blueline Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 08:39 AM
  #41
dmonk
doughberle
 
dmonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: Azerbaijan
Posts: 7,986
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dmonk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
How do you say idiot in Russian?
idiOt..... same as in english but with an accent on "O"

dmonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 09:02 AM
  #42
Boom Boom Anton
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Just a coincidence that it comes out that JR made a larger offer after Babchuk (and I'd assume his agent) are gone and can't confirm or deny it.
True...no way to prove it. But I do agree with Guerzy. Even if JR didn't offer more than the QO, it is kind of foolish for Babchuk to go to the KHL for a 1 year 1.5M offer when he stated he wants to stay in the NHL. He could have sucked it up an had more leverage next season.

This also leads me to believe that no other teams really wanted to even offer 1.5M for Babchuk (either via trade root or a RFA offer sheet). I think both he and his agent overvalued his worth.

Boom Boom Anton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 10:24 AM
  #43
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,306
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
Did anyone sees Chip's last columnette on Babchuk?? Babs signs for 1 year 1.5 mil in Russia....which is apparently exactly what the Canes offered him after the QO. This is the first i have heard about offering anything above the QO.

If this is factual then all the Babchuk supporters on this board might want to rethink their positions.
Yep, and Babchuk is a complete fool for turning it down if it was infact offered. I still don't like the way JR handled the stiuation in the press or the way he handled the potential trade, but as always there are at least two sides to every situation.

Although, with the tax exempt status of the KHL contracts, an offer of 2.1 million per NHL is about on par with the 1.5 he got from Omsk. Still, for a guy that wanted to play in the NHL a difference of half a million shouldn't have made a difference when he could have easily more then made it up after next season due to a possible arbitration award.

DaveG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 10:38 AM
  #44
dmonk
doughberle
 
dmonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: Azerbaijan
Posts: 7,986
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dmonk
There is no tax exemption in KHL. Players pay 13% income tax as everyone else in Russia.

dmonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 10:40 AM
  #45
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,306
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmonk View Post
There is no tax exemption in KHL. Players pay 13% income tax as everyone else in Russia.
I have been misinformed then. Still though significant difference in taxes.

DaveG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 03:57 PM
  #46
faulkingdynamic
J Troll
 
faulkingdynamic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Just a coincidence that it comes out that JR made a larger offer after Babchuk (and I'd assume his agent) are gone and can't confirm or deny it.
Its not like either guy you mentioned was ever here in Raleigh during this process and for the most part they never kept the public up-to-date anyways, not to mention the fact that his agent isnt exactly packing his bag to stay in Anton's spare bedroom in Omsk, he's still on the continent. And of course it didnt come out during the process....Babchuk wanted more money and JR had no real reason to make it public because it wouldnt have put any pressure on Anton(see the first sentence), he had already signed replacements, and it would have told teams that were interested in Anton that he wasnt going to take 1.5 mil on a deal(cooincidentally the same money level before offer sheets cost alot more).

faulkingdynamic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 04:55 PM
  #47
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23,080
vCash: 500
Again, assuming JR actually did offer him 1.5

All throughout the process, JR mentions nothing but the QO, says Babchuk will have to play for the QO, etc. And he was getting praised for "sticking to his guns", "not being pushed around", etc.

Now when it comes out that JR may have budged a little, it's because he's so kind and benevolent, right?

Money may not have even been an issue. Judging by the fact he signed in Russia for almost the same amount, it looks like it wasn't. He just may not have wanted to play under JR. The two haven't exactly had the bestest buddies relationship.

Blueline Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 09:21 PM
  #48
geehaad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
He just may not have wanted to play under JR. The two haven't exactly had the bestest buddies relationship.
All the more reason to be glad to see Babchuk gone. Leaders can always do better with less pains in their ass...

geehaad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 10:05 PM
  #49
rgmarsh
 
rgmarsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Again, assuming JR actually did offer him 1.5

All throughout the process, JR mentions nothing but the QO, says Babchuk will have to play for the QO, etc. And he was getting praised for "sticking to his guns", "not being pushed around", etc.

Now when it comes out that JR may have budged a little, it's because he's so kind and benevolent, right?

Money may not have even been an issue. Judging by the fact he signed in Russia for almost the same amount, it looks like it wasn't. He just may not have wanted to play under JR. The two haven't exactly had the bestest buddies relationship.
to add onto what geehad said, if Anton Babchuck flew the coop to the KHL because he didn't get along with JR -- the man who controlled his NHL destiny -- and after repeatedly saying he wanted to be in the NHL, AND after one defection already - what in the hell?? If this is true the guy just lost any ounce of credibility he once had.

rgmarsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2009, 11:05 PM
  #50
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23,080
vCash: 500
Well, I'm assuming that's why he asked to be traded. He tried to handle it one way, and JR apparently wasn't getting it done. So, he took the other option available to him.

Still doesn't explain why JR couldn't get it done. If Babs was only asking for 1.5, there's no way other GMs weren't at the very least inquiring about him.

Of course, behind the scenes, etc. Seems to be enough to condemn Babchuk, but never enough to question JR.

Blueline Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.