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Anton Babchuk to Avangard Omsk (KHL)

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Old
09-20-2009, 11:57 AM
  #26
DuklaNation
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There should be criticisms on both sides of this negotiation process. Rutherford for his controlling style and Babchuk for his narcissism.

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09-20-2009, 11:58 AM
  #27
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Kind of surprised. It seemed like he legitimately wanted to stay over here so I figured a team would take a shot on him and trade for him.

I can't find anything else to corroborate this though, nothing on Google News, nothing on ESPN Insider or on TSN or anything like that.....

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09-20-2009, 12:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
........
I hear what you're saying, but most of that should have been ironed out when Babchuk came back last summer ... it obviously wasn't in rutherford's eyes. IMO, Babchuk seeing 1 year at the QO wasn't enouph to overlook JR's grudge just sort of took the high road. He showed in the second half of the year he was an asset. There aren't too many d-men who'll score 35+ points with a decent +/- in what's arguably their first year as a regular NHL'er ... that're only 25!

If JR didn't see his value, he would have blown him off by now.....

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09-20-2009, 12:34 PM
  #29
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JR got his wish. Way to let a personal grudge worsen the team.

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09-20-2009, 12:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
And the Canes keep his rights "forever" while he's playing somewhere else , don't they?
No. A player who signs overseas while an RFA is not considered a "Defected Player" - only players who leave while still under contract or unsigned draft picks qualify for "Defected Player" status.

The Canes tendered a QO, so they do retain his rights as long as he is an RFA, but they lose any rights when AB qualifies to become a UFA.

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Old
09-20-2009, 12:46 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I can't find anything else to corroborate this though, nothing on Google News, nothing on ESPN Insider or on TSN or anything like that.....
Eurohockey.net has it. They are as solid a source as I've come across.

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Old
09-20-2009, 12:59 PM
  #32
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I don't understand why Carolina was so willing to let him go. He had 35 points and was a plus 13 as a defenseman.

I didn't get to see him play a lot last year so could someone enlighten me?
He left to Russia before and Rutherford had a grudge against him. I guess that's it.

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:05 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ncpuckhog View Post
Not sure I agree with that.

1) The CBA outlines what a GM can offer and Rutherford did just that. If Babchuk was one of the Canes "must keep" players, then I could see him offering more, but he simply wasn't. It is a matter of priorities.
2) Babchuk really had 1/2 of a good season. Why does that warrant more than the qualifying offer?
3) It seems nobody else was willing to offer him much more either (or at least not offer what Anton thought he was worth). Otherwise there would have been an RFA offer or trade? No?
Well, only 8 (!) NHL defensemen scored 16+ goals last season. Sure Rutherford operated in the terms of the CBA, but that offer shows absolutely no respect for that kind of performance.
If other team wanted to sign him, it needed to give sg. back to Carolina. Way much worse situation than it has been for Carolina holding Anton's rights. Same with the potential offer sheet. Rutherford thinks Anton's worth nothing, so why did he want anything valuable from the other teams? He should let him go.
Now Anton has to wait till the UFA status (not too long) and we'll see what happens in this saga.

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09-20-2009, 01:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Benji Frank View Post
I hear what you're saying, but most of that should have been ironed out when Babchuk came back last summer ... it obviously wasn't in rutherford's eyes. IMO, Babchuk seeing 1 year at the QO wasn't enouph to overlook JR's grudge just sort of took the high road. He showed in the second half of the year he was an asset. There aren't too many d-men who'll score 35+ points with a decent +/- in what's arguably their first year as a regular NHL'er ... that're only 25!

If JR didn't see his value, he would have blown him off by now.....
No, Rutherford stated he'd hoped Babchuk and matured and that the wanted to give him another chance. Babchuk blew it by again taking the entitlement, self-centered stance he'd shown when he refused to report to the AHL and then left for Russia.

Just as Erik Cole's poor stretch of 25+ games caused him to take a major pay cut because of inconsistency concerns, Babchuk's great stretch of 25 games wasn't enough to overcome his inconsistency (and his absolutely horrible postseason performance that got his a seat in the press box) and give him the 3-year deal and raise he sought. Rutherford commented that they only way he'd get what he was looking for was if he returned to Russia. Add in his long history of me-first attitude and recent unwillingness to fit in (he was a loner in the room and the only Cane to blow off his media appearance after the post-season player interviews) it's a bad combination.

He was being given what he asked for upon his return the last time. An opportunity to play a more significant role, which he would have gotten again with Pitkanen. He focused on his stats from the last 1/3 of the season and felt he was worth more than the Q.O. Ironically, he cited a business decision in leaving for Russia originally, yet failed to see the business end of being an RFA whose departure cost him arbitration rights.

No doubt JR was being inflexible, but to be honest Babchuk's own past warranted the zero tolerance stance. What he showed and it was reflected by other GM's inactivity was that he is a toxic asset.

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
No, Rutherford stated he'd hoped Babchuk and matured and that the wanted to give him another chance. Babchuk blew it by again taking the entitlement, self-centered stance he'd shown when he refused to report to the AHL and then left for Russia.
JR brought him back from Russia this past here in the hopes that his play and his attitude had matured. But you say he blew that chance by bringing up something he did before he left for Russia in the first place?

There's no question that Babchuk's play and attitude improved from the time of his refusal to report to this past season. There was no hint of a bad attitude, AT ALL, from Babs this past season. Are you constantly in the locker room, can you make the claim that he's a loner?

And again, if JR really intended on having Babs play in the Top 4 this upcoming season, do you really believe he would have offer Babs his QO? Either he foolishly thought he could lowball a player and there'd be no consequences of that action, or he lied and he never had any intention of Babchuk playing this upcoming season at all.

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:38 PM
  #36
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Good for the Russian team. Babchuk is a good defenseman who is ridiculously underrated by Carolina fans. Carolina will struggle to make the playoffs this year.

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Old
09-20-2009, 01:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
JR brought him back from Russia this past here in the hopes that his play and his attitude had matured. But you say he blew that chance by bringing up something he did before he left for Russia in the first place?

There's no question that Babchuk's play and attitude improved from the time of his refusal to report to this past season. There was no hint of a bad attitude, AT ALL, from Babs this past season. Are you constantly in the locker room, can you make the claim that he's a loner?

And again, if JR really intended on having Babs play in the Top 4 this upcoming season, do you really believe he would have offer Babs his QO? Either he foolishly thought he could lowball a player and there'd be no consequences of that action, or he lied and he never had any intention of Babchuk playing this upcoming season at all.
You misread the quote. I wrote that "Babchuk blew it by again taking the entitlement, self-centered stance he'd shown when he refused to report to the AHL and then left for Russia." In other words, he felt entitled to a big raise and a 3-year deal after amassing most of the stats he pointed to in a great 25-game stretch. He was going to get what he'd said he always wanted, regular TOI but that wasn't what he really wanted. He wanted his payday pure and simple.

The Canes own beat writer confirmed he is a loner but you know otherwise because you are a big fan of his? Come on, do you ever go to their practices? It's not hard to see the guy is in fact a loner.

Yes, I do think he was going to get the opportunity to play in the top 4. Showing you are a PP specialist with booming shot but whose D game has so many holes you have to sit in the playoffs, is hardly justification for a nice raise + a 3-year deal.

For all the overly generous contracts JR has given guys in the past, I'm glad to see him put his foot down a guy who has a continual history of issues, is self-centered and unproven.

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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Good for the Russian team. Babchuk is a good defenseman who is ridiculously underrated by Carolina fans. Carolina will struggle to make the playoffs this year.
No he is a one-dimensional shooter on the PP and a liability with his positioning, anticipation, and the way in which he thinks the game.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:04 PM
  #38
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No he is a one-dimensional shooter on the PP and a liability with his positioning, anticipation, and the way in which he thinks the game.
We'll see how much of liability the whole Carolina team will be now that such "one-dimensional shooter" is gone. You don't get great +- rating by being one-dimensional.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:04 PM
  #39
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I've said this before, and i will say it again... I hate when quality players leave the NHL.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:07 PM
  #40
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And what numbers are this "big raise" that you keep bringing up? All that I've seen is that Babchuk wanted a 3-year deal, something he asked for at the beginning of the offseason. And it's impossible for players to change their stance as the offseason progresses, right?

And you far underrate Babchuk's defensive game. He's not a defensive stalwart out there by any means, but he's nowhere near as bad as you claim him to be. He was below average defensive, above average offensively, and when he's on, he's an above average NHL player.

But all this is beside the point. The point is, JR had an offer on the table. He stated it himself. Yet he willingly ignored that offer and now we lost a young, scoring defenseman for nothing. And you're trying to deflect blame away from him? This is his fault, plain and simple. He had all the cards and he did nothing with them.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:21 PM
  #41
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We'll see how much of liability the whole Carolina team will be now that such "one-dimensional shooter" is gone. You don't get great +- rating by being one-dimensional.
You must not have seen many Canes games. When you are paired with a two-way player like Pitkanen who can cover for your mistakes and help the mutual +/- cause by putting up his own points, that's how. Sorry but observation trumps simple citation of stats.

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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
And what numbers are this "big raise" that you keep bringing up? All that I've seen is that Babchuk wanted a 3-year deal, something he asked for at the beginning of the offseason. And it's impossible for players to change their stance as the offseason progresses, right?

And you far underrate Babchuk's defensive game. He's not a defensive stalwart out there by any means, but he's nowhere near as bad as you claim him to be. He was below average defensive, above average offensively, and when he's on, he's an above average NHL player.

But all this is beside the point. The point is, JR had an offer on the table. He stated it himself. Yet he willingly ignored that offer and now we lost a young, scoring defenseman for nothing. And you're trying to deflect blame away from him? This is his fault, plain and simple. He had all the cards and he did nothing with them.
How many times are you going to ask me the same questions? I have answered them ad infinitum and even provided links at your request. Babchuk asked for enough that Rutherford said he'd only get that deal in the KHL. Sure he may have backed off but too late. Ask yourself why nobody signed him to an offer sheet.

Uh, above average D-men don't unravel to such an extent they become healthy scratches when it counts in the playoffs. Even though it was his first experience, he was outright terrible and that hurt his market value whether you want to see it or not. The goal is to make it to and contribute in the playoffs not just register points totals you can refer to in a contract year.

I'm perfectly fine with being rid of Babchuk and his me-first, entitlement attitude. He's simply not a good fit here though I did have higher hopes for him when he returned. Rutherford wanted to bring Babchuk back but he refused his Q.O. and wanted too much money. No he's out of the NHL again and the Canes still hold his rights. A lesson for Babchuk: you reap what you sow.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:21 PM
  #42
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Good for the Russian team. Babchuk is a good defenseman who is ridiculously underrated by Carolina fans. Carolina will struggle to make the playoffs this year.
Yeah we will really struggle with our improved team.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:23 PM
  #43
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Not surprising...no one wanted to pay a one dimensional defenseman $2 mill and have to trade to get him

edit: i shouldn't start that fight


Last edited by Levitate: 09-20-2009 at 02:32 PM.
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Old
09-20-2009, 02:25 PM
  #44
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Stupid move by Carolina and teams like Columbus that need offensive help on the blue-line. They could have acquired him for a 2nd.

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09-20-2009, 02:28 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
No. A player who signs overseas while an RFA is not considered a "Defected Player" - only players who leave while still under contract or unsigned draft picks qualify for "Defected Player" status.

The Canes tendered a QO, so they do retain his rights as long as he is an RFA, but they lose any rights when AB qualifies to become a UFA.
The confusion may lie in cases like Korolyuk and Hudler who have arbitration awards to play out.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Good for the Russian team. Babchuk is a good defenseman who is ridiculously underrated by Carolina fans. Carolina will struggle to make the playoffs this year.
Ya, us Carolina fans who watch him all year long sure don't know what a gem we have. I guess no one else in the league really knows either since they weren't willing to trade for him. I guess you and Babchuk himself are the only ones smart enough to realize how good he is. Must feel great to be the only ones, like having an awesome secret no one else knows.

Oh, and if we struggle to make the playoffs this year, it won't be because of the absence of Babchuk.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:13 PM
  #47
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Listen, nearly every young D has holes in their game.

All things aside, Babchuk was deserving of more than his qualifying offer. Perhaps a 1-2yr with a slight raise to $1.5-$2.5.

None of us here know the amounts that were tossed around, so stop with the "greed" or "looking out for himself" venom. It's stupid..of course someone as a professional wants to get paid accordingly.

Whether or not what he wanted was ludicrous is unknown @ this point. What is known is JR brought in two former Bruins for the $$$ he could have used on Seindenberg & Babchuk in the middle of negotiations. I doubt he ever wanted either player back, or that he could afford them.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:16 PM
  #48
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Listen, nearly every young D has holes in their game.

All things aside, Babchuk was deserving of more than his qualifying offer. Perhaps a 1-2yr with a slight raise to $1.5-$2.5.

None of us here know the amounts that were tossed around, so stop with the "greed" or "looking out for himself" venom. It's stupid..of course someone as a professional wants to get paid accordingly.

Whether or not what he wanted was ludicrous is unknown @ this point. What is known is JR brought in two former Bruins for the $$$ he could have used on Seindenberg & Babchuk in the middle of negotiations. I doubt he ever wanted either player back, or that he could afford them.
I second that.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:21 PM
  #49
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You must not have seen many Canes games. When you are paired with a two-way player like Pitkanen who can cover for your mistakes and help the mutual +/- cause by putting up his own points, that's how. Sorry but observation trumps simple citation of stats.
Pitkanen's +/- was terrible before he was paired with Babchuk. They helped each other out, so it's hardly all Pitkanen.

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How many times are you going to ask me the same questions? I have answered them ad infinitum and even provided links at your request. Babchuk asked for enough that Rutherford said he'd only get that deal in the KHL. Sure he may have backed off but too late. Ask yourself why nobody signed him to an offer sheet.
Rutherford thought Babs was only worth 1mill. Babs could have asked for a small raise and Rutherford would have said he'd only get that deal in the KHL. It's Rutherford unwillingness to trade Babs because of a personal grudge.


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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Uh, above average D-men don't unravel to such an extent they become healthy scratches when it counts in the playoffs. Even though it was his first experience, he was outright terrible and that hurt his market value whether you want to see it or not. The goal is to make it to and contribute in the playoffs not just register points totals you can refer to in a contract year.
Notice I said he's an above average defenseman when he's on. Clearly, the fact that the Devils gameplanned to shut him down in the 1st round had an effect on his play. It's always a bad thing to have a player that teams must plan around though, right?

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I'm perfectly fine with being rid of Babchuk and his me-first, entitlement attitude. He's simply not a good fit here though I did have higher hopes for him when he returned.
Then why aren't you angry that JR wasn't able to get ANYTHING for him? I like Babs, but I wouldn't have cared if he was on the team this upcoming season or not. I do care, however, that we let a player like that walk without getting anything for him. Especially after JR ignored at least one offer for said player.

That's letting a personal grudge get in the way of improving the team.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:30 PM
  #50
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No he is a one-dimensional shooter on the PP and a liability with his positioning, anticipation, and the way in which he thinks the game.
How many 24 yr. old defenseman are not liability's in these ways? He still has more upside potential than any of our young prospects do. JR doesn't screw up that often, but letting Babchuk go, and getting NOTHING in return makes this team worse long term.

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