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Old
09-21-2009, 07:14 AM
  #101
Vitto79
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I love the Lisin/Avery Debate. This team has some pretty sweet depth right now and even if someone goes down they can either chose to bump up a guy or call up Grachev. Nice!

In this case I am not sure how people don't get that the team has better offensive options than Avery so for now he is best suited on a energy 4th line with Boyle and Brashear. I don't really care what Voros has done, good for him and all and he is likely the spare but if they can get rid of him then great

All I know is I want Anisimov with offensively talented players and speedy ones and that is Lisin. Not saying Avery can't help out on that line I am just saying Lisin needs to be their. That line will score if they stick together.

Honestly I can even see them going with Lisin, Anisimov, Gaborik sooner rather than later......to start I would have Kotalik with them

If what they say is true they are going with the most talent that performs and Lisin and Anisimov have worked very well together.

I love the idea of Higgins, Drury, Callahan going up against other teams best lines. They can score and are all good defensively

Dubinsky gets first shot with Gabby and Prospal can feed him the puck

Regardless they have some real good options and they can mix and match

2nits game vs Detroit will give us an idea of what they are thinking but of course it can change

you have to think Grachev, Parenteau, Voros are playing as they are fighting for spots and Dubi won't be ready yet, Brashear out sincd he is a lock and maybe even Boyle who has'nt missed a game and who I consider a lock for the 4th C spot

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:39 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I love the Lisin/Avery Debate. This team has some pretty sweet depth right now and even if someone goes down they can either chose to bump up a guy or call up Grachev. Nice!

In this case I am not sure how people don't get that the team has better offensive options than Avery so for now he is best suited on a energy 4th line with Boyle and Brashear. I don't really care what Voros has done, good for him and all and he is likely the spare but if they can get rid of him then great

All I know is I want Anisimov with offensively talented players and speedy ones and that is Lisin. Not saying Avery can't help out on that line I am just saying Lisin needs to be their. That line will score if they stick together.

Honestly I can even see them going with Lisin, Anisimov, Gaborik sooner rather than later......to start I would have Kotalik with them

If what they say is true they are going with the most talent that performs and Lisin and Anisimov have worked very well together.

I love the idea of Higgins, Drury, Callahan going up against other teams best lines. They can score and are all good defensively

Dubinsky gets first shot with Gabby and Prospal can feed him the puck

Regardless they have some real good options and they can mix and match
I don't think Prospal would work on a line with Gabby at all. Prospal is slow, and Gabby needs speedy players to keep up with him on the rush. That's why I feel so strongly that Avery and Gabby would be dynamite together- Avery might be the 2nd or 3rd fastest player on the team, and is a good puck distributor (IMO).

It's crazy to me that people are knocking Avery/Gaborik, then proclaiming that Enver Lisin is some kind of offensive dynamo who we KNOW is going to explode this year. When he shows some consistency in production at the NHL level, then I'll buy it. Until then, though, I am going to act under the assumption that he is what he has proven himself to be- a 13 goal scorer.

Even if Avery never cracks 20 goals, he hits like a madman, is strong on the puck, and attracts defenders to him. I don't know how people wouldn't want that kind of player on a line with our top sniper. Additionally, we've seen that Avery has good hands around the net, in terms of both deflections and garbage goal scoring. Paired with an pure shooter like Gabby, that could be a potent combination (see Tomas Holmstrom, who played on a top line with Pavel Datsyuk for years).

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09-21-2009, 07:54 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I don't think Prospal would work on a line with Gabby at all. Prospal is slow, and Gabby needs speedy players to keep up with him on the rush. That's why I feel so strongly that Avery and Gabby would be dynamite together- Avery might be the 2nd or 3rd fastest player on the team, and is a good puck distributor (IMO).

It's crazy to me that people are knocking Avery/Gaborik, then proclaiming that Enver Lisin is some kind of offensive dynamo who we KNOW is going to explode this year. When he shows some consistency in production at the NHL level, then I'll buy it. Until then, though, I am going to act under the assumption that he is what he has proven himself to be- a 13 goal scorer.

Even if Avery never cracks 20 goals, he hits like a madman, is strong on the puck, and attracts defenders to him. I don't know how people wouldn't want that kind of player on a line with our top sniper. Additionally, we've seen that Avery has good hands around the net, in terms of both deflections and garbage goal scoring. Paired with an pure shooter like Gabby, that could be a potent combination (see Tomas Holmstrom, who played on a top line with Pavel Datsyuk for years).
And now Cleary. I agree Gabby n Avery would work. With Avery strong on the puck, Dubi too, could open up the ice up for our star player. Plus they have the speed to go with him. Ofcourse it's all based on results, as you know Torts has little patience with line combos.

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09-21-2009, 08:15 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
In this case I am not sure how people don't get that the team has better offensive options than Avery so for now he is best suited on a energy 4th line with Boyle and Brashear.
With such a large sample size, do you guys think our massively successful record with Avery in the lineup -- especially relative to our record without him in the lineup -- is a fluke? Well, if not, then that means whatever Sean Avery contributes, it helps us win. And he's made that contribution with about 15 minutes of ice time a night, not 5 minutes.

If you give him 15 minutes of ice time, you KNOW what you're going to get from Sean Avery. The statistics make that clear (in case some fans weren't paying attention the last 3 seasons). He has consistently registered about a point per 1.6 to 1.7 games, both in the regular season and the playoffs (and that's just his measurable contributions). Again, with 15 minutes, you KNOW what you're going to get from Sean Avery.

Now we want to take that and reduce him to 5 minutes a night?

In the place of one of our most consistent and significant contributors, we want to put someone who has proven nothing -- he is an unknown. Sorry, nobody can say with any degree of certainty that Lisin will be a significant contributor right now.

Nik Zherdev had all the skill in the world.... but when the games started to really matter, he disappeared. Who here has the balls to tell me they KNOW that won't happen with Lisin (mind you, the Coyotes don't really play meaningful games, so Lisin has never really played in a meaningful NHL game in his life)? On the other hand, when the games matter, I KNOW what I'm getting from Sean Avery; more specifically, if you give him 15 minutes, he will give us what we've seen for 3 years now, and if you give him 5 minutes, he will give us nothing.


Last edited by Kind of Blue: 09-21-2009 at 08:21 AM.
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Old
09-21-2009, 08:17 AM
  #105
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I would like to see a top line of Avery-Dubi-Gaborik. Avery was at times our best player on the ice, creating pressure and turnovers, Gaborik is the right man to take advantage of Avery's style of play.

Avery is one of our veterans and is a very consistent player, he will not be on the 4th line.

I think Lisin is the odd man out at the moment, he has earned a spot in the top 9 but unfortunately we don't have a spot for him. I think he starts on the 4th line and moves up into the top 9 at the first injury. Remember we have guys like Gaborik and Avery who are oft-injured and may need a couple games off here and there.

I think Lisin will continue to gain experience on the 4th and he will have his chance to solidfy a top 9 spot.

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Old
09-21-2009, 09:14 AM
  #106
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Realistic Opening Roster....

Top line is Prospal-Dubi-Gabby.

Prospal has history with Torts. Plays 17 to 19 min. per game. If anyone, Dubi will be dropped from the top line due to hold out.

2nd line is Higgins-Drury-Kotalik. This is your top six

3rd line is Avery-Anisimov-Callahan. This is a no brainer, solid checking line.

4th line is Brashear-Boyle-(Lisin or Voros)

That it folks. But don't worry, probably won't last long knowing Torts.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:15 PM
  #107
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Rolling four lines or play as situation dictates -

Higgins-Prospal-Gaborik

Kotalik-Drury-Callahan

Avery-Dubinsky-Brashear

Grachev-Anisimov- Lisin


Staal-Redden

Roszival-Gilroy

Girardi-Del Zotto


Press Box: Voros - Boyle - Semenov

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:20 PM
  #108
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i got a feeling brashear is playing 40-50 games this year. Really just games against the atlantic and northeast.

i just hope grachev and lisin are in the lineup opening night.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:40 PM
  #109
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i think grachev is gonna end up in hartford.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:46 PM
  #110
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opening night lines:

prospal-dubinsky-gaborik
higgins-drury-callahan/kotalik
lisin-anisimov-callahan/kotalik
avery-boyle-brashear

staal-gilroy
redden-rozsival
girardi-delzotto


spares: voros,semenov,vally

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Old
09-21-2009, 08:16 PM
  #111
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Is it just me, or is Kotalik doing his best job to solve this problem by nominating himself to be a $3MM observer from the pressbox?

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09-21-2009, 08:54 PM
  #112
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If this is really what we want to see, I'll play along -

Avery/Dubinsky/Gaborik
Grachev/Anisimov/Lisin
Higgins/Drury/Callahan
Byers/Boyle/Brashear

Staal/Gilroy
MDZ/Sauer
Redden/Sanguinetti


Last edited by jas: 09-21-2009 at 09:37 PM.
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Old
09-21-2009, 09:31 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Is it just me, or is Kotalik doing his best job to solve this problem by nominating himself to be a $3MM observer from the pressbox?
Hahah, I sure hope he turns his game on once the regular season starts. He's shown NOTHING this preseason.

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Old
09-21-2009, 10:30 PM
  #114
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Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Higgins-Drury-Kotalik
Avery-Anisimov-Callahan
Lisin-Parenteau-Brashear

Staal-Gilroy
Redden-Girardi
Rozsival-Del Zotto

Scratch= Boyle, Voros, Sanguinetti

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Old
09-21-2009, 10:40 PM
  #115
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Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Higgins-Drury-Kotalik
Avery-Anisimov-Callahan
Lisin-Boyle-Brashear

Staal-Gilroy
Redden-Rozy
Girardi-Sanguinetti

Scratch : P.A Paranteau OR Voros

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Old
09-21-2009, 10:41 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BleedingBlueSince92 View Post
Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik
Higgins-Drury-Kotalik
Avery-Anisimov-Callahan
Lisin-Parenteau-Brashear

Staal-Gilroy
Redden-Girardi
Rozsival-Del Zotto

Scratch= Boyle, Voros, Sanguinetti
Sanguinetti won't be a scratch, in all likelihood. He'll either be playing nightly with the NHL or AHL squad.

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Old
09-21-2009, 10:46 PM
  #117
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Higgins-Prospal-Gaborik
Callahan-Drury-Kotalik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Avery
Lisin-Boyle-Voros
(Brashear as 7th forward)

Staal Gilroy
Girardi Sanguinetti
Roszival Redden
(Semenov as 7th d-man)

Hank, Valiquette

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Old
09-21-2009, 10:47 PM
  #118
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Aaron "JAM" Voros on that 4th line.

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Old
09-21-2009, 10:48 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Is it just me, or is Kotalik doing his best job to solve this problem by nominating himself to be a $3MM observer from the pressbox?
well, while I don't think he's played well at all, he continues to somehow put up points in every game. Can't argue with results, so I would guess he starts out in the lineup with a short leash.

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Old
09-21-2009, 11:01 PM
  #120
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Kotalik is living proof that an average NHL'er with a big shot can net 9 million dollar contracts.

Hes down near the bottom with Avery, but hes not in "Im a Torts Blowup Away From Enver Lisin Taking my Job" territory yet.

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Old
09-21-2009, 11:08 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Kotalik is living proof that an average NHL'er with a big shot can net 9 million dollar contracts.

Hes down near the bottom with Avery, but hes not in "Im a Torts Blowup Away From Enver Lisin Taking my Job" territory yet.
He'll be creeping, ever so swiftly... nah, in all seriousness though - I do hope he gets in on the action a little harder in the next few games. I would be lying if I said I've seen him very much before this preseason, the guy's allegedly a proven PP and SO specialist so hell, who am I to judge with such a small sample size just yet?

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Old
09-22-2009, 03:48 AM
  #122
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______ Dubinsky Gaborik

______ Drury Callahan

______ Anisimov ______

______ Boyle Brashear


At first, I'd say Higgins is the safest pick at that 1st line LW spot. He has the speed to keep up with both Dubinsky and Gaborik, and is a better shooter than every other option available, except for Kotalik. Good passer, good on odd-man rushes too.

I don't think Avery should go anywhere near that first line with a player like Higgins on our roster.

Higgins - Dubinsky - Gaborik


Higgins and Dubinsky are both effective in the dirty areas of the ice. They forecheck well, and take the body. High motor guys that have the speed to play with a guy like Gaborik.

If Kotalik played with half the heart as a guy like Callahan, I think he would fit very well there, but he doesn't. Prospal and Lisin should be given a look, based on their skill-set, but I don't think either player will mesh as well as Higgins.

Kotalik - Drury - Callahan


I'm not completely set on this line. Avery might be a better option here on the left side, but I think the past success with Kotalik/Drury shouldn't be overlooked. Callahan is simply too good a player to demote.

Avery - Anisimov - Prospal

I know.. I know.. Where the hell is Lisin.. He would fit right in on that right side in place of Prospal, but, we're kind of at a stalemate here. The kid, or the veteran? Lisin has played way past many of our expectations, and Prospal has been a nice addition that's skating, and playing better than I imagined he would.

Lisin - Boyle - Brashear

Oh noes! Lisin on the fourth line! Que Offdacrossbar's rant!

But, I do like it. Yes, Voros has definitely made us think twice about him a a player, but I'm thinking long-term here.

Boyle is a really effective player. He creates a lot of room, and forechecks really well. Plus, he has some pretty nice hands on him. Lisin, on this line, will basically have some of the freedom, and room he might not have on our top lines. Give him some PP time, and he'll be a very effective Ranger.

Staal - Gilroy


I don't think Gilroy is a first pairing guy yet. But I think playing him as one, with the ever-dependable Staal, is going to ultimately help him in the long run. Let's get this kid to reach his ceiling asap.

Redden - Rozsival


11.5M dollar pairing. Second pairing. They better not **** up often.

Girardi - Del Zotto

Wouldn't mind moving Girardi (After Redden, and Rozsival, of course). I think a guy like Sauer makes him very expendable. But right now, he's definitely a capable defensemen who I think will show some improvement this season under Torts. Del Zotto has just been too damn good to send back. It's a shame though, because deep down inside, we all know he's going back to London.

Sanguinetti as the 7th, instead of Semenov. I think 30-40'ish games a year at this level, as well as practicing with the big club, is going to help him out more in the long run. He's very good defensively. And he hasn't flashed he tools he has offensively, but he will.

I'm not worried about the growing pains we might experience playing a lot of youth. Hell, I'd give Grachev a spot on Anisimov's wing right now, if it weren't for all the wingers we have. Del Z, Gilroy, and Sanguinetti have all proved thus far, that they deserve to start at this level. I'm hoping Torts pushes hard for them, because I know I am.

There are 4 things I dislike about our current roster:
#1 Redden
#2 Drury
#3 Rozsival


Simply too much money tied up in veterans who are not proving their value.

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Old
09-22-2009, 04:55 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Is it just me, or is Kotalik doing his best job to solve this problem by nominating himself to be a $3MM observer from the pressbox?
Have you ever watched a Buff vs NYR game? He was always the scariest threat to score. More so than any other of the talented forwards they had.

He's not here on a tryout. He's a bonafide 20 goal scorer in 4 of 5 full seasons. And will rellish the extra time on ice he will get here,... as opposed to his time in Buffalo.

He has the best shot on this team.

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Old
09-22-2009, 05:15 AM
  #124
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my line up for the season opener would look as follows

Avery Prospal Gaborik
Higgins Drury Callahan
Lisin Artesimov Kotalik
Brash Dubi Boyle


Dubi is paying for his hold out......a temporary but necessary message.
The only ones I see expandable are Lisin and Artesimov.
Dubi could still end up a top line center once either Lisin and Artesimov
run out of steam/adrenalin.

I actually reckon this would be a fairly tough line up.


The D business as usual

Staal Girardi (Dan needs all the help he can get, so line him up with the top dog)
Redden Rozi (steady as she goes)
Gilroy MDZ will see small minutes initially

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Old
09-22-2009, 06:01 AM
  #125
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Lisin Dubinsky Gabbs

Prospal Anisimov Kotalik

Higgins Drury Callahan

Avery Boyle Brasher

Staal Rozival

Redden Gilroy

Semenov Girardi

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