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The Matt Stajan Debate

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Old
09-21-2009, 12:15 PM
  #76
smoke meat pete*
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
I don't understand how so many people here are down on Stajan. Dollar for Dollar he may be most valuable guy.

Sign Stajan long term. Stajan 1st line this year with Kessel. Kadri with Kessel next year. Then put Stajan on the second line. Bozak has not proven he is anywhere near Stajan in his capabilities.

For everyon saying Trade Stajan. What are they expecting in return???
Stajan and White for a good 1st line player. Someone who is an upgrade on Stajan. I don't want to give him away for a draft pick or for an ok prospect. I want a capable 1st line player to play with Kessel. I have no problem with Stajan, and I really like him, I'd just like to see an upgrade, and the Leafs don't have a lot to use as an upgrade. In my scenario, if someone wants to sub in Poni for Stajan, I'm ok with that.

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:31 PM
  #77
zeke
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Originally Posted by ColtonSchenn View Post
It's not either/or. It's the fact that there are mitigating factors in play that keeps Stajan on the 2nd line. I'm no longer able to effectively argue that Ponikarovsky isn't a top-six player, because he is. It's obvious that Antropov is a top-six player.

Those two players are one factor in Stajan's ascent to top-six production. Another factor is ice-time in two important situations - power-play time and top-six even strength time. Those two factors, plus Stajan's maturation as a hockey player helped him produced like a top-six forward.
You couldn't be more off-track.

In comparison with any other NHL centre with similar numbers as Stajan last year, Stajan invariaby had fewer minutes, fewer power play minutes, and lesser linemates.

His ice time and linemates were LESS than what other comparable players had to work with, not MORE.

He was at a DISADAVANTAGE in terms of these factors, not at an ADVANTAGE.

On top of that, Stajan was younger than most centres with comparable production as him last year.


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For example: Grabovski isn't a first-line centre. But he IS a good 2nd-line centre. He has speed, passing, and stick-handling abilities that are clearly obvious. He also creates his own plays. What does Stajan have?
Grabovski has no passing skills to speak off, certainly nowhere near Stajan's league in the passing department.

Nor does he have anywhere near the vision and hockey sense of Stajan.

Stajan is an excellent passer with excellent vision, something which Grabo is very poor at.

Nor does Grabo have superior puckhandling abilities. They both are good, but not great, puckhandlers.

Both have weak shots.

Stajan is much better defensively and on faceoffs.

The only think Grabo has over Stajan is skating. That's it, that's all.

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Neither do I, but I do see him levelling off and consistently scoring 50 points. He's reliable in on the other end of the ice too. That qualifies him as a 2nd line center in my books. If a guy like Nazem Kadri or Tyler Bozak come and knock on the door, Stajan will have a fight on his hands. Until one of those guys win that fight, Stajan is fine as our 2nd line center.
This is what I think too.

Stajan is pretty reliable as our 2nd line center, he's responsible can put up some points, set up wingers, take face-offs etc.

I think that until someone shows that they can do the job better, we keep him.

No reason to get rid of him now IMO

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
The only thing Grabo has over Stajan is skating. That's it, that's all.
Which he has upgraded over the summer. He looks a lot faster out there this year.

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:49 PM
  #80
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The fact is, until I see Grabo produce more than Matt, I will go with Matt everytime. Maybe this is the year, though.

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:52 PM
  #81
hackm
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Stajan already hardlined the team during negotiation last offseason, wanting more than Steen had gotten, despite not having shown that he was more valuable than Steen at the time.

Fortunately that worked out for us. Stajan did play well with his new contract.

However, that scenario sets a realistic expectation of his negotiations this off-season.

If he has a sixty point or greater season, he'll be paid $4M per season, which I don't think Burke would do for a Stajan type player. But some team out there would. A 60-point, responsibly two-way forward would get the four big ones from Nashville or Minnesota or even the Islanders.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:00 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hackm View Post
Stajan already hardlined the team during negotiation last offseason, wanting more than Steen had gotten, despite not having shown that he was more valuable than Steen at the time.

Fortunately that worked out for us. Stajan did play well with his new contract.

However, that scenario sets a realistic expectation of his negotiations this off-season.

If he has a sixty point or greater season, he'll be paid $4M per season, which I don't think Burke would do for a Stajan type player. But some team out there would. A 60-point, responsibly two-way forward would get the four big ones from Nashville or Minnesota or even the Islanders.
He'd get less than Krejci money IMO. He'll take a hometown discount, and knows that he doesn't accept any offer from Burke, he wouldn't be coming back later. (Learn this from Moore).

If Stajan gets 60 points, I expect a 3 year 10 mil contract or something to that nature.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:01 PM
  #83
richardn
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Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
This really has been going on for Months... and it seems that its still a hot topic.

What is Matt Stajan's Potential??

Personally, I think he can(Not saying he will) be a 60-70 point 2nd line centerman.

He's like an Ian White... He does everything well, and in some areas great... but it doesn't translate to a Great player.

Stajan has good speed, he can skate, he doesn't shy from physicallity, he's delt a lot with the media, he can distribute the puck, he can score... He can really do it all.

Brian Burke has publicly said that he feels that Stajan will improve off of his 55 point season, and he really is a player that I FEEL is underrated by leaf fans.

What are your thoughts?

I think he is replaceable in the near future with the likes of Bozak and Kadri developing. I would definately hold on to him now he has a low cap hit this year and a valuable player.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:06 PM
  #84
hackm
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Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
He'd get less than Krejci money IMO. He'll take a hometown discount, and knows that he doesn't accept any offer from Burke, he wouldn't be coming back later. (Learn this from Moore).

If Stajan gets 60 points, I expect a 3 year 10 mil contract or something to that nature.
Stajan will be a UFA this time. He'll want every dime he can get, just like Antropov and Moore did. Hell, Stajan even tried to get every dime as an RFA.

It's not a "second contract" as Burke calls it. It's pay day for Stajan.

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