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Sergei Kostitsyn's place in the lineup

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09-18-2009, 01:47 PM
  #1
Ludo
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Sergei Kostitsyn's place in the lineup

As a big SK74 fan I am quite concerned about his place on this roster. Where do you guys see him fit on this roster? It seems that Gui and MaxPac are ahead of him on the depth chart. That pushes him down to the third line where we already have Moen, Lapierre, Gui or MaxPac (whichever is not on the top 2) and D'Agostini.

I personally think SK's abilities would benefit the third line more than D'Agostini's but where does he stand with regards to MaxPac or Gui?

I just hope he gets an opportunity to get back to earlier form. Do you think his current "injured" status, and his inability to play in training camp is jeopardizing his place on the team (not that it was ever 100%)?

Thoughts?


Last edited by Ludo: 09-18-2009 at 02:27 PM.
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09-18-2009, 01:48 PM
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he'll get his chance sooner or later

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09-18-2009, 01:49 PM
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he'll get his chance sooner or later
He'll have to be good right at that moment though.

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09-18-2009, 01:52 PM
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As a big SK74 fan I am quite concerned about his place on this roster. Where do you guys see him fit on this roster? It seems that Gui and MaxPac are ahead of him on the depth chart. That pushes him down to the third line where we already have Moen, Lapierre, Gui or MaxPac (whichever is not on the top 2) and D'Agostini.

I personally think SK's abilities would benefit the third line more than D'Agostini's but where does he stand with regards to MaxPac or Gui?

I just hope he gets an opportunity to get back to earlier form. Do you think his current "injured" status, and his inability to play in training camp is jeopardizing his place on the team (not that it was ever 100%)?

Thoughts?
I don't think Sergei Kostitsyn is more valuable than D'Agostini. In fact, out of all the players you just mentioned I think D'Agostini is the most valuable of them all. D'Agostini has proven to us that he can be a ligitimate 20+ goal scorer. Personally, I hope D'Aagostini plays on the second line this year.

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09-18-2009, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mrgerry View Post
I don't think Sergei Kostitsyn is more valuable than D'Agostini. In fact, out of all the players you just mentioned I think D'Agostini is the most valuable of them all. D'Agostini has proven to us that he can be a ligitimate 20+ goal scorer. Personally, I hope D'Aagostini plays on the second line this year.
I guess my reasoning is that SK is quite strong in his own end, shows grit and can also put up significant numbers. Dags is a good scorer but he doesn't show much grit or defensive prowess.

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09-18-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mrgerry View Post
I don't think Sergei Kostitsyn is more valuable than D'Agostini. In fact, out of all the players you just mentioned I think D'Agostini is the most valuable of them all. D'Agostini has proven to us that he can be a ligitimate 20+ goal scorer. Personally, I hope D'Aagostini plays on the second line this year.
Wow, I have the opposite reaction. After his hot start last year D'Agostini was pretty terrible. No physical game, horrible minus stat and from watching him on tv it was deserved. The fact that Lang went down and D'Agostini's ice time didn't grow, despite being the only RH shot on the team of any quality, was very troubling. It's not like he hasn't learned the pro life or played the long season, he just wasn't that good most nights. To me D'Agositini's shown a lot less potential upside than either SK or MaxPac. But to each his own. I'd love him to step and do well, of course.

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09-18-2009, 01:58 PM
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Hopefully he starts in Hamilton.

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09-18-2009, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mrgerry View Post
I don't think Sergei Kostitsyn is more valuable than D'Agostini. In fact, out of all the players you just mentioned I think D'Agostini is the most valuable of them all. D'Agostini has proven to us that he can be a ligitimate 20+ goal scorer. Personally, I hope D'Aagostini plays on the second line this year.
The guy said in a third line role, Kostitsyn is more suited than D'Agostini.

Thats true. Dags has zero defensive awareness. Dags is also not a "proven 20+ goal scorer". In order to prove that, you have to actually do it! The potential is definitely there though...

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09-18-2009, 02:01 PM
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Sergei still can challange Pacioretty and Latendresse for the top sixth forward. If not, he'll be on the third line. He is a fine defensive player if need to be.

Moen = 4th line IMO!

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09-18-2009, 02:07 PM
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Wow, I have the opposite reaction. After his hot start last year D'Agostini was pretty terrible. No physical game, horrible minus stat and from watching him on tv it was deserved. The fact that Lang went down and D'Agostini's ice time didn't grow, despite being the only RH shot on the team of any quality, was very troubling. It's not like he hasn't learned the pro life or played the long season, he just wasn't that good most nights. To me D'Agositini's shown a lot less potential upside than either SK or MaxPac. But to each his own. I'd love him to step and do well, of course.
You forgot that Lang is a Center, and D'Agostini is a Right Wing. So, there is no relation between Lang and D'Agostini's ice time. Now, if Lang was a Right Winger and D'Agostini's ice time was not increasing, then there would be room to worry.

What do you mean by "it's not like he hasn't learned the pro life or played the long season"? D'Agostini played his first season last year in the NHL and the "long season" of what you talk about was only 53 games. He notched 12 goals in only 53 games, on the third line for most of the season, that shows enough potential.

Pacioretty only played 34 games last year, and showed us that he is more of a grinder than an offensive force.

Out of all the three, Kostitsyn has played two seasons with the club. He played 56 games his first season with the club notching only 9 goals, 18 assists and 27 points, which is respectable in a first season. However, if anyone had a terrible 2008-2009 season it was Kostitsyn, who regressed in his sophmore year, and was then sent down to Hamilton.

So back to your remarks about "it's not like he hasn't learned the pro life or played the long season", that statement would only be eligible for Sergei Kostitsyn.

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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
The guy said in a third line role, Kostitsyn is more suited than D'Agostini.

Thats true. Dags has zero defensive awareness. Dags is also not a "proven 20+ goal scorer". In order to prove that, you have to actually do it! The potential is definitely there though...
I never said he was a proven 20+ goal scorer, I said he has proven that he can be a 20+ goal scorer.

Learn to read, before you put words in other people's mouth.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 09-20-2009 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Merge
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09-18-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mrgerry View Post
You forgot that Lang is a Center, and D'Agostini is a Right Wing. So, there is no relation between Lang and D'Agostini's ice time. Now, if Lang was a Right Winger and D'Agostini's ice time was not increasing, then there would be room to worry.

What do you mean by "it's not like he hasn't learned the pro life or played the long season"? D'Agostini played his first season last year in the NHL and the "long season" of what you talk about was only 53 games. He notched 12 goals in only 53 games, on the third line for most of the season, that shows enough potential.

Pacioretty only played 34 games last year, and showed us that he is more of a grinder than an offensive force.

Out of all the three, Kostitsyn has played two seasons with the club. He played 56 games his first season with the club notching only 9 goals, 18 assists and 27 points, which is respectable in a first season. However, if anyone had a terrible 2008-2009 season it was Kostitsyn, who regressed in his sophmore year, and was then sent down to Hamilton.
1. Yes I know D'Ags is a winger, but the PP set up favours a RH shot playing LW (edit- playing on the left side, more accurately) on the PP. D'Ags was the natural choice, but the coach didn't use him. Not exactly a compliment. Don't tell me what I forget, thank you very much.

2. There's a league called the AHL. It's professional. D'Ags spent some time there, including one particularly long season, look it up.

3. If Pacioretty only played 34 games last year, how did he conclusively "show us" that he's more of a grinder than a defensive force. How many pro games has Pacioretty played vs. D'Ags? Do you think D'Ags has improved over time? Do you have a reason to think Pacioretty won't?

4. Yes Sergei regressed. In my opinion he showed more upside as a rookie than D'Ags did. Is that so difficult to understand? I've already shown respect for your opinion, perhaps you could do the same.

Mod edit:


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 09-20-2009 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Removed unnecessary comment.
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09-18-2009, 02:14 PM
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I think too many people forget how good Sergei Kostitsyn can be after last year's disappointing performance. I wouldn't count him out yet. He could very well come in and knock one of Pacioretty or (most likely due to the size factor) D'Agostini down. I think that if he gets his attitude right, he has potential to be a ppg playmaker down the road. His biggest obstacle at this point would be himself though.

One thing we can all agree though is that having trouble to find a spot for a young player the caliber of S-K is a heck of a good problem to have!

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09-18-2009, 02:18 PM
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I never said he was a proven 20+ goal scorer, I said he has proven that he can be a 20+ goal scorer.

Learn to read, before you put words in other people's mouth.
If he hasn't done it, then he hasn't proven it. Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

BTW- Making lots of new friends today, aren't we?

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09-18-2009, 02:21 PM
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I never said he was a proven 20+ goal scorer, I said he has proven that he can be a 20+ goal scorer.

Learn to read, before you put words in other people's mouth.
the point is still the same. In order to "prove he can be a 20+ goal scorer" he actually has to do it. Now if you took the word "prove" out of your statement and just simply said "he can be a 20+ goal scorer", then you would be correct.

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09-18-2009, 02:24 PM
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the point is still the same. In order to "prove he can be a 20+ goal scorer" he actually has to do it. Now if you took the word "prove" out of your statement and just simply said "he can be a 20+ goal scorer", then you would be correct.
Indeed. Even "he's shown he can be a 20+..." would be fine, but the "can" doesn't correct the misuse of the concept of proof.

I think it's hilarious he tells you to learn to read in the same post.

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09-18-2009, 02:24 PM
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I thought this was an episode of cribs, or something.

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09-18-2009, 02:27 PM
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I thought this was an episode of cribs, or something.
My bad. Edited the title.

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09-18-2009, 02:30 PM
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1. Yes I know D'Ags is a winger, but the PP set up favours a RH shot playing LW on the PP. D'Ags was the natural choice, but the coach didn't use him. Not exactly a compliment. Don't tell me what I forget, thank you very much.
Obviously you do forget, or you're lying about what you know. D'Agostini was used quite a bit last year on the power play. 3 out of his 12 goals came on the power play. Which translates into 25% of his goals came on the power play. Which is about right, because about 25% to 35% of any natural scorer's goals come from the power play. So, D'Agostini is in the right margin.

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2. There's a league called the AHL. It's professional. D'Ags spent some time there, including one particularly long season, look it up.
And? Kostitsyn had more of a benefit by playing 22 games in Hamilton and then 56 games with Montreal. If anyone had more of a professional experience it's been Kostitsyn.

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3. If Pacioretty only played 34 games last year, how did he conclusively "show us" that he's more of a grinder than a defensive force. How many pro games has Pacioretty played vs. D'Ags? Do you think D'Ags has improved over time? Do you have a reason to think Pacioretty won't?
In D'Agostini's defence, he has only played 53 games. How can he "conclusively" show us that he has less potential than any of the other two players, or that he has no defensive awareness. I never said Pacioretty won't improve, but that in the games he has played in, that he has not proven he has an offensive force within. D'Agostini only played 19 more games than Pacioretty, it's not like he has played that many more.

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4. Yes Sergei regressed. In my opinion he showed more upside as a rookie than D'Ags did. Is that so difficult to understand? I've already shown respect for your opinion, perhaps you could do the same.
Firstly, D'Agostini notched 12 goals versus Kostitsyn's 9 goals. Yes, Kostitsyn had 27points, 6 more than D'Agositni's 21. One has shown that he could be a great playmaker in the league (Kostitsyn), the other has shown that he can be a great scorer (D'Agostini). They would probably compliment each other well on the same line. However, right now D'Agostini has shown more than Kostitsyn in the present time. Kostitsyn has regressed, where D'Agostini has improved. How am I not showing respect for your opinion? I'm debating your opinion, as you are debating with my opinion. Get a grip.

Mod edit:


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 09-20-2009 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Removed last quoted post and response.
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09-18-2009, 02:36 PM
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the point is still the same. In order to "prove he can be a 20+ goal scorer" he actually has to do it.
He was a regular 20 goal scorer in junior, and in his first season in the AHL, he notced 23 goals.

He also scored 12 times in only 53 games on the third line last year with Montreal. At his rate, had he played a full season (82 games) with Montreal, he would have scored 19 goals on the third line in his rookie season.

If he plays on the second line, he has even more potential to score more than on the third line.

There is the proof that he has proven in the past that he can be a 20+ goal scorer.

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09-18-2009, 02:38 PM
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Sergei still can challange Pacioretty and Latendresse for the top sixth forward. If not, he'll be on the third line. He is a fine defensive player if need to be.

Moen = 4th line IMO!
If Sergei can't find a spot in the top 6, he better start the year in hamilton. We need big body and physical player on our bottom 6!!

Oh, and btw, Moen = 3th line, book it.

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09-18-2009, 02:39 PM
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Obviously you do forget, or you're lying about what you know. D'Agostini was used quite a bit last year on the power play. 3 out of his 12 goals came on the power play. Which translates into 25% of his goals came on the power play. Which is about right, because about 25% to 35% of any natural scorer's goals come from the power play. So, D'Agostini is in the right margin.



And? Kostitsyn had more of a benefit by playing 22 games in Hamilton and then 56 games with Montreal. If anyone had more of a professional experience it's been Kostitsyn.



In D'Agostini's defence, he has only played 53 games. How can he "conclusively" show us that he has less potential than any of the other two players, or that he has no defensive awareness. I never said Pacioretty won't improve, but that in the games he has played in, that he has not proven he has an offensive force within. D'Agostini only played 19 more games than Pacioretty, it's not like he has played that many more.



Firstly, D'Agostini notched 12 goals versus Kostitsyn's 9 goals. Yes, Kostitsyn had 27points, 6 more than D'Agositni's 21. One has shown that he could be a great playmaker in the league (Kostitsyn), the other has shown that he can be a great scorer (D'Agostini). They would probably compliment each other well on the same line. However, right now D'Agostini has shown more than Kostitsyn in the present time. Kostitsyn has regressed, where D'Agostini has improved. How am I not showing respect for your opinion? I'm debating your opinion, as you are debating with my opinion. Get a grip.
I invision Pacioretty as a passer and not a typical goal scorer. He can grind and is great along the boards. I agree with you on D'agostini and sergei.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 09-20-2009 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Removed last sentence of quoted post.
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09-18-2009, 02:39 PM
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I think the whole semantics discussion is beside the point. I want to discuss SKost vs other players he's battling with.

Let's keep this on topic please.

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09-18-2009, 02:41 PM
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Latendresse is almost a veteran and doesn't have to worry one bit about his place in the lineup, except if he's going to play on the 3rd or 2nd.

No one from D'agostini, Kost and MaxPac is sure to get a roster place. Because Dagger, I think, is the only one who can't be sent down without going threw waivers (can someone confirm this), he would have to be pretty terrible to not get in the lineup.

Kostitsyn is the player with the most experience and with his head straight probably the most versatile and talented. But MaxPac got size, which is lacking on the top 2 lines.

Depending on each other camp, I'd say MaxPac starts in Hamilton with Kostitsyn on the 3rd line and Dagger on the 2nd... (Moen, Metropolit and Laraque on the 4th and Chipper and maybe Stewart as spare parts).

If either one of them (Kost and Dagger) struggles look for MaxPac to take their place sooner than later.

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09-18-2009, 02:51 PM
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why don't you guys wait until at least the end of the pre-season before assessing the composition of the team.

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09-18-2009, 03:06 PM
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My bad. Edited the title.
No worries, it seems I was the only dumb one to think that.

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