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JFJ Given High Praise.

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:51 PM
  #51
Lobstertainment
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Give Credit where Credit is due. On the pro level Ferguson was terrible but from the draft he did a good job for us with his scouts so far we've had some promising young players in our system or at least were in our system(Come back Rask)

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Has he given any praise to Fletch for signing Finger?
How about moving up in the draft to get Schenn or signing Hagman.These are building blocks and will be here for a while. Fletch did his job

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Old
09-21-2009, 03:58 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Or Jamal Mayers?
Ron Wilson clearly stated he wanted Mayers at the time - because of the Haggy signing..Ronnie wanted a bit of a "grinder line" and advised Fletch to get Mayers at the draft. FYI.

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09-21-2009, 04:00 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SSJTOM View Post
Give Credit where Credit is due. On the pro level Ferguson was terrible but from the draft he did a good job for us with his scouts so far we've had some promising young players in our system or at least were in our system(Come back Rask)
Exactly about RASK. Everyone knows that JFJ is F*$& Up - no "bones" about it...let's try and forget this ******.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:14 PM
  #55
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Just a heads up, JFJ picked Gunnarsson instead of Brunnstrom.

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09-21-2009, 04:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Richie79 View Post
Ron Wilson clearly stated he wanted Mayers at the time - because of the Haggy signing..Ronnie wanted a bit of a "grinder line" and advised Fletch to get Mayers at the draft. FYI.
Ron Wilson is not the G.M. of this team and shouldn't have a say in who gets brought in. His job is to coach the players he is given to the best of his ability. Bringing Mayers in for a 3rd rounder was a mistake. Look at guys like Deveaux and Rosehill. You can draft those guys in later rounds.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:28 PM
  #57
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Just a heads up, JFJ picked Gunnarsson instead of Brunnstrom.
Huh? Explain how...

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Ron Wilson is not the G.M. of this team and shouldn't have a say in who gets brought in.
That's totally insane.




Geez what's going on today? This thread is just full on nonsense, more so than normal.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Huh? Explain how...
Remember that thing about JFJ ignoring Bergman about choosing Brunnstrom in the last round? He used that last pick on Gunnarsson instead.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:34 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJTOM View Post
Give Credit where Credit is due. On the pro level Ferguson was terrible but from the draft he did a good job for us with his scouts so far we've had some promising young players in our system or at least were in our system(Come back Rask)
And that's really all this thread is about. Ferguson had his faults, and he ultimately lost his job over this fact. But where he did do well, was putting together a strong team of scouts, that at an early glance, have done a great job.

If these guys were incompetent, Burke would have axed them long ago.

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09-21-2009, 04:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Remember that thing about JFJ ignoring Bergman about choosing Brunnstrom in the last round? He used that last pick on Gunnarsson instead.
IIRC, it was the off-season previous to the one in which he was signed by Dallas, that the pitch was made by Bergman for JFJ to sign him. It was well after he was draft eligible.

If you're upset about passing on him at the draft table, well every GM is the league did the same, twice. So it's kinda hard to count that against him.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:35 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Just a heads up, JFJ picked Gunnarsson instead of Brunnstrom.
That's BS. And even if it was true, picking Gunnarson over Brunnstrom might actually be a good call.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:37 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
That's BS. And even if it was true, picking Gunnarson over Brunnstrom might actually be a good call.
How is it BS? He picked Gunnarson in the 7th round with the pick that Bergman wanted him to use on Brunnstom.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:38 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
IIRC, it was the off-season previous to the one in which he was signed by Dallas, that the pitch was made by Bergman for JFJ to sign him. It was well after he was draft eligible.

If you're upset about passing on him at the draft table, well every GM is the league did the same, twice. So it's kinda hard to count that against him.
I like Gunnar better, actually.

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Old
09-21-2009, 04:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Fergie was good at 2 things:

1. Drafting in late rounds (had no choice - he traded away all of our early picks)

2. Signing Kaberle and Sundin to a great contracts
Signing Kaberle and Sundin ..Heck that's nothing

Speaking of drafting in later rounds .. How about giving credit to the GM that brought both to Toronto in the first place?.

If we are giving GMs credit through the work of their scouting teams working for them. well than Cliff Fletcher was Leafs GM from 1991 - 1997 and Tomas Kaberle was therefore a Cliff selection and find in the 1996 entry draft. I bet very few around here know that fact !!!

JFJ would have had nothing to sign if they were not first acquired by another Leaf GM first.

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Old
09-21-2009, 05:03 PM
  #66
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JFJ gets full credit for 36 year old Jason Blake and 32 year old struggling Vesa Toskala..

Outside of draft picks made by Leafs amateur scouts those are the only two remaining pro players left on the Leafs roster for JFJ 4 1/2 years of service as GM ..

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Old
09-21-2009, 05:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
I like Gunnar better, actually.
Then what's the issue?

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Old
09-21-2009, 05:49 PM
  #68
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So this is what the JFJ legacy has been reduced to? Someone who MIGHT crack one of the thinnest forward corps in the league, and another who MIGHT crack the top 6 of an admittedly deep group? This is high praise? I think it's indicative of how horrendous his tenure was.

To sum up JFJ's reign. If an when this team becomes a contender in the next 5 years, what players from JFJ's time here can we legitimately see on the roster playing a reasonable role?

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Old
09-21-2009, 05:54 PM
  #69
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Having a couple of late rounders turn into maybes isn't "high praise".

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:01 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Shizane86 View Post
Honestly, I'm glad we never got carter. From what I saw in the preseason, he looks out of place, lazy, and unwilling to use his linemates. He's been shooting from everywhere and hitting nothing.
But back on track, JFJ did some things right, obviously with Stalberg. He looks to be a real gem. I just can't wait for october 1st.


Is that the first time you've ever seen Jeff Carter play? Who cares what he did in a preseason game. Preseason games mean basically nothing to star/semi star players besides getting themselves into decent shape. The kid is one of the most elite goal scorers in the league and has a decent chance to make team canadas olympic roster.

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:15 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
So this is what the JFJ legacy has been reduced to? Someone who MIGHT crack one of the thinnest forward corps in the league, and another who MIGHT crack the top 6 of an admittedly deep group? This is high praise? I think it's indicative of how horrendous his tenure was.

To sum up JFJ's reign. If an when this team becomes a contender in the next 5 years, what players from JFJ's time here can we legitimately see on the roster playing a reasonable role?
Well Platty as mentioned the only 2 pro players left that Burke and Fletcher have not yet cleared out are Jason Blake and Vesa Toskala. Neither player looks to be here long-term not likely apart of a contending team in a few years..

Here is JFJ draft legacy of those players selected by Leafs amateur staff while Fergy was the GM at that time..

Quote:
2007 Entry
74 3 Dale Mitchell R Oshawa Generals [OHL]
99 4 Matt Frattin R Fort Saskatchewan Traders [AJHL]
104 4 Ben Winnett L Salmon Arm Silverbacks [BCHL]
134 5 Juraj Mikus D Trencin (Slovakia)
164 6 Christopher DiDomenico C Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
194 7 Carl Gunnarsson D Linkoping HC [SEL]

2006 Entry
13 1 Jiri Tlusty L Kladno [Czech]
44 2 Nikolai Kulemin W Magnitogorsk Metallurg [Russia]
99 4 James Reimer G Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
111 4 Korbinian Holzer D Bad Toelz EC [2.GBun]
161 6 Viktor Stalberg L Frolunda Jrs (Sweden)
166 6 Tyler Ruegsegger C Shattuck St. Mary's [Minn.]
180 6 Leo Komarov C Assat Pori [FNL]

2005 Entry
21 1 Tuukka Rask G Ilves Tampere [FNL]
82 3 Phil Oreskovic D Brampton Battalion [OHL]
153 5 Alex Berry R Boston Jr. Bruins (EJHL)
173 6 Johan Dahlberg L MoDo Jr. (Sweden)
216 7 Anton Stralman D Skovde IK [Swe-1]
228 7 Chad Rau C Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]

2004 Entry
90 3 Justin Pogge G Prince George Cougars [WHL]
113 4 Roman Kukumberg F Trencin Dukla [Slovak]
157 5 Dmitry Vorobiev D Tolyatti Lada [Russia]
187 6 Robbie Earl L U. of Wisconsin [NCAA]
220 7 Maxim Semenov D Tolyatti Lada [Russia]
252 8 Jan Steber C Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]
285 9 Pierce Norton R Thayer Academy (Mass.)
Many of those from 2004 and 2005 are already gone.. The two Russian prospects Vorobiev and Semanov from 2004 are technically still Leaf property but neither appears to ever be heading to NA. The 2005 draft leaves Leafs with only two survivors to date Big Phil Oreskovic and Alex Berry all the rest are no longer Leaf property.

2006 and 2007 are still pending as most have not reached the NHL yet and their futures still to be determined .. Kulemin last season and Tlusty a couple years ago are the only ones to this point to play a factor in Leafs results.

Leafs also still have Alex Foster as NCAA UFA signing and Darryl Boyce a CIS UFA in the system that are Ferguson's.

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:16 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by LeafErikson View Post
JFJ doesn't have the brass ones he needs to do this job, especially in this city. It's showing early what being a brash, take no prisoners type like Burke does for an organization like the Leafs.

JFJ is a decent support role guy, but he's definitely no leader.
You need experience to run a leafs team. Plain and simple. If we look back over the last 20 years only the experienced GM's have had even moderate success here.

Heck if Riseborough can turn it around, I'm sure Fergy can eventually.

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
So this is what the JFJ legacy has been reduced to? Someone who MIGHT crack one of the thinnest forward corps in the league, and another who MIGHT crack the top 6 of an admittedly deep group? This is high praise? I think it's indicative of how horrendous his tenure was.

To sum up JFJ's reign. If an when this team becomes a contender in the next 5 years, what players from JFJ's time here can we legitimately see on the roster playing a reasonable role?
Out of the 11 still in the system I imagine there will be more than a few, plus Stralman who will be doing it for another team.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:08 PM
  #74
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Chosing a rookie GM in the Toronto market had to come with some issues.

Heck, look at the disaster Burke was trying to find a goaltender in Vancouver?

Burke learned his lesson and when he came to Toronto put out more efforts he has ever to land Gustavsson. In Anaheim he already had goaltending.

It would be no different if the Leafs gave the 'C' to a rookie on the ice in Toronto.

When you choose a rookie, you are going to have growing pains. Then when you try to micro manage that rookie, things will only get worse.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:12 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LTL View Post
You need experience to run a leafs team. Plain and simple. If we look back over the last 20 years only the experienced GM's have had even moderate success here.

Heck if Riseborough can turn it around, I'm sure Fergy can eventually.
It's possible Fergy gets another chance to prove himself in time. But he certainly wasn't ready to manage this market.

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