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Old
01-13-2010, 02:35 AM
  #926
Telos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
All of you throwing our 1st into the equation, I would just like to take this opportunity to remind you where the draft is taking place this June.
I am O.K. with it as long as Kovalchuk is up on stage to help welcome people to the 2010 NHL Entry Draft in Los Angeles. I'd much rather get the real thing straight up than have a very distant chance of acquiring a talent like Kovy just to appease the fans. I am sure plenty will be appeased if we land someone of his caliber.

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Old
01-13-2010, 02:59 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What are you talking about? Gaborik has 28 goals and 54 points in 43 games. Smyth has 13 goals and 27 points in 31 games. That's a lot more than a 3 point difference. Gaborik can create offense all by himself, who on the Kings can? And Kovalchuk is better than Gaborik. If the Kings do get Kovalchuk, it will be as a free agent in July.

Kings could have easily fit Gaborik's contract under the cap.

BTW, Smyth only has 4 5-on-5 goals. Gaborik has 15 5-on-5 goals. Lombardi said the Kings had to get better 5-on-5, which player would have done that?
Not only that, but trading for Smyth cost us Quincey, where signing Gaborik would not have.

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Old
01-13-2010, 03:01 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
ultimately i think the hanging point is whether or not the Kings are finally ready and at the point of taking themselves out of the first round of the draft... i think that's what needs to be discussed most, not the tangible assets.

any deal involving Ilya Kovalchuk is almost certain to cost the team its first rounder.

i can't see a deal that doesn't resemble at least - Brown, Hickey or Teubert and their number one pick... if i'm Atlanta, i'm not asking for Frolov or Johnson either.
It's possible for Dean to get a first rounder from another team by means of a secondary trade. So all is not lost on day one of the draft in L.A.

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Old
01-13-2010, 03:24 AM
  #929
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We're 2 3/4 pages from thread III....

... anyone got a spare life handy they aren't using?

Wait...







KOVALCHUK!

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Old
01-13-2010, 03:28 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Not only that, but trading for Smyth cost us Quincey, where signing Gaborik would not have.
We're still worrying about Quincey? Give it a rest already.

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Old
01-13-2010, 04:34 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I am O.K. with it as long as Kovalchuk is up on stage to help welcome people to the 2010 NHL Entry Draft in Los Angeles. I'd much rather get the real thing straight up than have a very distant chance of acquiring a talent like Kovy just to appease the fans. I am sure plenty will be appeased if we land someone of his caliber.
This, I was talking to my friend today (sadly a ducks fan) and he mentioned us going for Kovi. I talked about not wanting to move the first rounder cause we are hosting. His response...."what does that matter" and the more I think about it, it doesn't. 80% of Kings fans couldn't tell you who we drafted last year. My dad a Kings fan for 30+ years asked me the other day where that Russian forward we called up a month ago went. Bottom line is, a trade for Kovi would do a lot more for the casual fan base then a Canadian kid from Moose Jaw drafted in the teens. Hell have Kovi at the draft signing autographs or something. Dean could care less about the "marketing prospective" of the draft and Kovi/playoffs would do a lot more anyways.

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Old
01-13-2010, 09:12 AM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyros View Post
We're still worrying about Quincey? Give it a rest already.
No I'm not worrying about Quincey.

I love having Ryan Smyth on the Kings. I was just pointing out that by not signing Gaborik as a free agent and choosing instead to trade for Smyth, the Kings had to give up Quincey.


Last edited by Telos: 01-13-2010 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Flaming comment deleted
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Old
01-13-2010, 09:24 AM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I am O.K. with it as long as Kovalchuk is up on stage to help welcome people to the 2010 NHL Entry Draft in Los Angeles. I'd much rather get the real thing straight up than have a very distant chance of acquiring a talent like Kovy just to appease the fans. I am sure plenty will be appeased if we land someone of his caliber.
If I've learned anything from DL, it's that DL does nothing (except talk) "just to appease fans."

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01-13-2010, 11:21 AM
  #934
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DL has shown that he does not make moves to appease anyone. He traded Cammi, Lubo, and O'Sullivan which definitely did not appease the fans. He also has pretty much slept through the last 2 free agencies instead of overpaying for a guy to appease the fans.

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Old
01-13-2010, 12:03 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
No I'm not worrying about Quincey.

I love having Ryan Smyth on the Kings. I was just pointing out that by not signing Gaborik as a free agent and choosing instead to trade for Smyth, the Kings had to give up Quincey.
Well, yea getting Gaborik would have cost more than just signing him. With a signing of 5 years, you're taking more cap space, and added risk in getting a guy who has a long track record of prolonged injury.

I'd say if he's hurt more often than not, getting Smyth for 3 years in addition to being able to sign him after that for less money could very well be worth at least a Quincey. Yes, you're losing a nice young player, but you're gaining contract and roster flexibility.

Of course, it goes both ways, and Smyth himself isn't impervious to injury, as we've seen. Gaborik is also a totally elite scorer, so it all weighs in.


Last edited by Telos: 01-13-2010 at 07:33 PM. Reason: flaming comment deleted
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Old
01-13-2010, 12:15 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defgarden View Post
Well, yea getting Gaborik would have cost more than just signing him. With a signing of 5 years, you're taking more cap space, and added risk in getting a guy who has a long track record of prolonged injury.
When did signing a player to a 5 year contract force you to keep him for 5 years? Unless there is a NTC, players move throughout their contracts all the time. Does Gaborik have a NTC with NY?

DL also has no problem trading for a player with injury issues. He even trades for players that were currently injured at the time of the trade. He just won't sign the ones with elite talent, wouldn't fit with his "vision" and Murray's "system".

I'm sure Kovalchuk will be another failure by Lombardi that he will claim would destroy any chances of keeping the "core" together. Meanwhile, the other elite teams seem to have no trouble keeping their teams together, making the playoffs and being able to sign elite talent (via FA).

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Old
01-13-2010, 12:50 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
When did signing a player to a 5 year contract force you to keep him for 5 years? Unless there is a NTC, players move throughout their contracts all the time. Does Gaborik have a NTC with NY?

DL also has no problem trading for a player with injury issues. He even trades for players that were currently injured at the time of the trade. He just won't sign the ones with elite talent, wouldn't fit with his "vision" and Murray's "system".

I'm sure Kovalchuk will be another failure by Lombardi that he will claim would destroy any chances of keeping the "core" together. Meanwhile, the other elite teams seem to have no trouble keeping their teams together, making the playoffs and being able to sign elite talent (via FA).
amen

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:19 PM
  #938
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Gaborik has a limited no-movement clause.

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:23 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
When did signing a player to a 5 year contract force you to keep him for 5 years? Unless there is a NTC, players move throughout their contracts all the time. Does Gaborik have a NTC with NY?
But how do you trade a guy who is injured? I don't disagree with what you are saying but I'd bet AEG wouldn't be thrilled paying a guy $7m to sit on the sidelines. When is the last time the Kings even paid a player $7+m? Gretzky? Have they ever? I don't even know. I know Kopitar is close but my point is 5 years for an injury prone player is a risk so I can understand why DL walked away on that one.

But the above is part of the reason is also why I believe the Kings will not get Kovalchuk. They are going to have to pay him and while AEG says the checkbook is open, I'll believe it when I see it. Kovalchuck is going to get $7m+ probably $8m+ and I don't seeing the Kings ponying up the kinda money he is going to get. I certainly don't they are going to part with the assets.

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:38 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
But how do you trade a guy who is injured? I don't disagree with what you are saying but I'd bet AEG wouldn't be thrilled paying a guy $7m to sit on the sidelines. When is the last time the Kings even paid a player $7+m? Gretzky? Have they ever? I don't even know. I know Kopitar is close but my point is 5 years for an injury prone player is a risk so I can understand why DL walked away on that one.

Allison was close to $7, I think the contract was like $20 over 3 years.

I know Palffy was signed when we traded for him, but I think He was extended over $7 mil at one point.

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:41 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
But how do you trade a guy who is injured? I don't disagree with what you are saying but I'd bet AEG wouldn't be thrilled paying a guy $7m to sit on the sidelines. When is the last time the Kings even paid a player $7+m? Gretzky? Have they ever? I don't even know. I know Kopitar is close but my point is 5 years for an injury prone player is a risk so I can understand why DL walked away on that one.

But the above is part of the reason is also why I believe the Kings will not get Kovalchuk. They are going to have to pay him and while AEG says the checkbook is open, I'll believe it when I see it. Kovalchuck is going to get $7m+ probably $8m+ and I don't seeing the Kings ponying up the kinda money he is going to get. I certainly don't they are going to part with the assets.
I guess I'll have to disagree with the bolded part because I do believe the kings will pay what it takes to land an elite player such as Kovy. And if we don't pay Kovy, then we'll have to pony up to pay Marleau. And frankly, I don't know if the difference between the two will be THAT significant of an amount. Imo, 750k to 1.5 mil will be the difference between signing Kovy vs. Marleau.

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:41 PM
  #942
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Owen Nolan plays RW, has 10 g 9a and is in the last year of his contract. That seems like a more reasonable acquisition. He won't probably cost very much and he played for the Sharks. Consider it a done deal!

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:46 PM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
But how do you trade a guy who is injured? I don't disagree with what you are saying but I'd bet AEG wouldn't be thrilled paying a guy $7m to sit on the sidelines. When is the last time the Kings even paid a player $7+m? Gretzky? Have they ever? I don't even know. I know Kopitar is close but my point is 5 years for an injury prone player is a risk so I can understand why DL walked away on that one.

But the above is part of the reason is also why I believe the Kings will not get Kovalchuk. They are going to have to pay him and while AEG says the checkbook is open, I'll believe it when I see it. Kovalchuck is going to get $7m+ probably $8m+ and I don't seeing the Kings ponying up the kinda money he is going to get. I certainly don't they are going to part with the assets.
you should believe it.

while many are lamenting the fact that they wouldn't pony up a s*** ton of money for several years of a "maybe" (Gaborik), they're ignoring the fact that they did JUST that with Anze Kopitar.

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:50 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I guess I'll have to disagree with the bolded part because I do believe the kings will pay what it takes to land an elite player such as Kovy. And if we don't pay Kovy, then we'll have to pony up to pay Marleau. And frankly, I don't know if the difference between the two will be THAT significant of an amount. Imo, 750k to 1.5 mil will be the difference between signing Kovy vs. Marleau.
Out of context, but I like Kovalchuk's game more. No doubt Marleau is leading the league in goals right now, but Ilya brings, IMHO a more complete game than Marlene....

O.k., fire away.

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01-13-2010, 01:50 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
you should believe it.

while many are lamenting the fact that they wouldn't pony up a s*** ton of money for several years of a "maybe" (Gaborik), they're ignoring the fact that they did JUST that with Anze Kopitar.
I realize they did that and they kinda had to. How the hell would the GM look the fans in the eye had they not locked up their homegrown top center?

I understand why Gaborik wasn't signed and I'm ok with that. I just think there are too many road blocks to getting Ilya Kovalchuk. You seem convinced it is going to happen. My I ask why (and please keep the reading at a K-12 level - I have a public education )?

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01-13-2010, 01:51 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
you should believe it.

while many are lamenting the fact that they wouldn't pony up a s*** ton of money for several years of a "maybe" (Gaborik), they're ignoring the fact that they did JUST that with Anze Kopitar.
Really? That's your response? Comparing an injured-every-season Gaborik to a Kopitar who hasn't missed a game in three years? Or are you saying that Kopitar is a 'maybe' talent? (Not that it makes your point any more valid)

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01-13-2010, 01:55 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Out of context, but I like Kovalchuk's game more. No doubt Marleau is leading the league in goals right now, but Ilya brings, IMHO a more complete game than Marlene....

O.k., fire away.
I wouldn't go so far as to say Ilya has a more complete game. They have their different strong points. For example, Marleau has the wheels and Ilya has the size.

I agree withn you 100% on picking Kovy though. Larger, a bit more physical, and younger.

I'd hate to see a King making $7.5m/season, but of the few (maybe 5) people worth it, he's one of them.

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Old
01-13-2010, 01:56 PM
  #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Out of context, but I like Kovalchuk's game more. No doubt Marleau is leading the league in goals right now, but Ilya brings, IMHO a more complete game than Marlene....

O.k., fire away.
I disagree. Marleau could potentially be a Selke candidate this year, and Kovalchuk probably doesn't even know what the Selke is. Given both their histories and play styles, if Lombardi had to choose between the two, I can only assume he would choose Marleau. He has character, fills a veteran leadership role, and is two-way responsible.

Kovalchuk is 100% not even remotely close to a two-way player. Just ask anyone on the Atlanta board and they will tell you straight up that he is invisible in his own zone and just hovers and cherrypicks around to take it the other way.

It is not like he is the worst in the league defensively, but he is definitely in the bottom 30 or so. In the end, Kovy is still a top 5 talent in the entire NHL with prolific scoring and clutch gamechanging abilities. A trade for him would revolve around the logic of guaranteeing acquisition of such a talent versus risking going up against Ranger tactics in the off-season in the obvious free-for-all impending to ensue.

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01-13-2010, 02:04 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I disagree. Marleau could potentially be a Selke candidate this year, and Kovalchuk probably doesn't even know what the Selke is. Given both their histories and play styles, if Lombardi had to choose between the two, I can only assume he would choose Marleau. He has character, fills a veteran leadership role, and is two-way responsible.

Kovalchuk is 100% not even remotely close to a two-way player. Just ask anyone on the Atlanta board and they will tell you straight up that he is invisible in his own zone and just hovers and cherrypicks around to take it the other way.

It is not like he is the worst in the league defensively, but he is definitely in the bottom 30 or so. In the end, Kovy is still a top 5 talent in the entire NHL with prolific scoring and clutch gamechanging abilities. A trade for him would revolve around the logic of guaranteeing acquisition of such a talent versus risking going up against Ranger tactics in the off-season in the obvious free-for-all impending to ensue.
Admittedly I've seen as lot more of Marleau than Ilya. Marleau has never impressed me with physicality. Speed, yes, hands, check, scoring, back of the net, check. but I see Ilya as a more dynamic player with a greater spark and flair. Although DL will not trade for a player based on flash or name appeal alone, I think, in some little amount, all things being equal, that flash or flair that Kovalchuk brings, that I also think Marleau does not, makes him a better, dare I say, FIT, for Los Angeles.

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01-13-2010, 02:05 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
Owen Nolan plays RW, has 10 g 9a and is in the last year of his contract. That seems like a more reasonable acquisition. He won't probably cost very much and he played for the Sharks. Consider it a done deal!
I like Nolan but if he's strictly a RW, we have JW, Brown and Simmonds already there producing similar numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Out of context, but I like Kovalchuk's game more. No doubt Marleau is leading the league in goals right now, but Ilya brings, IMHO a more complete game than Marlene....

O.k., fire away.
I'm actually with you on this but for a different reason. A few posters mentioned the impact of Thornton in Marleau's production this year and that's got me a bit concerned. I still wouldn't mind Marleau at all but Kovy would be my choice.

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