Great pick with Otto Graham. I'm surprised he lasted that long.
He was a first round pick last year.
I think though that QBs in general will go lower this year. There's just so much depth at QB at an all-time level, that once you get past the first 2 or 3 guys you can afford to wait until much, much later in the draft to pick one up, probably why Graham lasted as long as he did.
11× Pro Bowl selection (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002)
6× First-team All-Pro selection (1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 2002)
2× Second-team All-Pro selection (1991, 2000)
7× First-team All-Conference selection (1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 2000, 2002)
2× Second-team All-Conference selection (1991, 1996)
NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team
NFL 1990s All-Decade Team
1993 NFL Defensive Player of the Year
1993 UPI AFL-AFC Player of the Year
Super Bowl champion (XXXV)
Pro Football Hall of Fame inductee (2009)
71 Career interceptions (3rd All Time)
12 Interceptions returned for a TD (1st all time)
1,483 career interception return yards (1st all time)
1 Fumble Return for a TD
I'm going to be out of town until Monday night so I'll be sending at least 3 players to GKJ and Ellistoleafsnation so if one of you could post my two upcoming picks I'd appreciate it. Sarge is still on the clock.
Last edited by William H Bonney: 10-01-2009 at 12:40 AM.
If anyone is away for an extended period of time and may need someone to make their selections, I'd be happy to do so in order to keep this thing moving at a reasonable pace- I'm now in the office for the majority of my time and keep HF in the background as I go so I'll be available for those who want to send lists in.
I didn't look at the other thread until he mentioned that Brady wasn't taken last time, which I found odd.
I mean if you polled 5,000 football fans outside Indy and New England, as to who is better between Manning and Brady, my guess is that it would be 55-45 or 60-40 at worst, one way or the other.
Regardless, I'd be happy to have Brady lead any team that I was involved with.
I think what it means is for sure you could have gotten better value for the pick, i.e. you could have waited a couple rounds and picked up Brady then, and grabbed someone at a different position now.
With Brady, you have a 3-time SB winner. But only 2 All-Pro (2nd team in 2005, 1st team in 2007) selection is probably the most notable number against him. He did lead the league in yards and TDs twice, and his career passer rating (although this isn't exactly a great measure --it's heavily biased towards modern QBs and in the top 20 only 4 are in the HOF, with another 3 [Brady, Manning, and yet-to-be-drafted player] headed there as well, with most of the guys not getting anywhere close to the HOF without buying a ticket) do work in his favor.
The Brady/Manning comparison I lean towards Manning. We're talking about contemporaries, and Manning was a 4-time 1st team All-Pro--all coming after Brady emerged on to the scene. I think it's pretty convincing that the regular season belongs to Manning. Clearly, Brady has him beat in playoff success though (although Manning's numbers aren't horrible), and that certainly does matter, especially in a context like the ATD:
Now obviously it can be hard to distinguish individual performance from team performance--how important is the fact that those Patriot teams were better (especially on defense) than the Colts teams. But also except for the Moss year, Brady has not had the same quality receivers as Manning did (Harrison, Wayne, and Clark were better than anything Brady had), and James was better than the myriad of RBs that Brady dealt with.
Another factor is that Manning has played longer than Brady--so he has more seasons under his belt and his body of work is just that much larger. And in an ATD, where we can't guess what a player is going to do in the future...that probably also favors Manning.
The gap certainly isn't huge between them, but it doesn't surprise me he wasn't taken last year given the gap between the top 10-15 QBs of all time once you get past the first few (Montana, Unitas, etc), and you could make cases for any of them really being in the top 5. I think really with QB it comes down to personal preference--there are several QBs I would rank above Brady who haven't been chosen yet.
Last year my decision was down to who I took, Brady, and another undrafted QB. I was the last to draft a QB, so I had time to think about it, and thought I probably should have went with Brady because of the guy I took's reputation took a bit of a hit.