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2009/10 - Lines Discussion - (ES/PP/PK) - Part II

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Old
09-29-2009, 03:57 PM
  #151
dmcdougall
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I don't know what to think of possible line combo's, they say Stevens like his pairs. So you have Gagne/Richards, Hartnell/Carter, and based on the playoffs a bit last year, Briere/Giroux, 3 solid groups of two. Like everyone says, Giroux and JVR had great chemistry, but you can't put Giroux/JVR and Briere together, it won't fly.

I sort of like the idea of
Gagne- Richards - JVR
Hartnell - Carter - Pyrola
Asham - Giroux - Briere
Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere
Powe

You can mix Powe in if someone isn't playing well. Gagne and Richards being 2 great 2 way players sort of support JVR in case he makes mistakes, and he sort of replaces Knuble on that line, only with more skill. Pyrola is a bit of a two-way guy with some skill too when Hartnell goes banging and crashing. Asham can score, there is no doubt about it, and Giroux and Briere have a solid big man playing with them, leaving 3 guys to really muck and grind on the 4th line. Honestly, I don't see it happening that way I guess, but, I think that's what I would would go with.

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Old
09-29-2009, 06:20 PM
  #152
tuckrr
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Originally Posted by CoolinWithCosta View Post
Not at this point. Giroux will be at center for a while unless there's an injury in the top 6. Also I'd really not call it a 3rd line..more of a 1c. All 3 lines will get close to equal ice time.
i think betts makes the line stronger than asham or powe would, and since its line 1c, you want it to be able to keep up with the carter or richards lines.

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Old
09-29-2009, 06:56 PM
  #153
Garbage Goal
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i think betts makes the line stronger than asham or powe would, and since its line 1c, you want it to be able to keep up with the carter or richards lines.
Giroux's line is supposed to score. Asham and Powe can score. Betts is a PK and face-off guy who can't score.

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Old
09-29-2009, 06:57 PM
  #154
tuckrr
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Giroux's line is supposed to score. Asham and Powe can score. Betts is a PK and face-off guy who can't score.

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:20 PM
  #155
sa cyred
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
You know Betts is a 4th line center right? He shouldnt and wont be a 3rd line center on our time. Asham can score also... He had 20 point last year playing 3/4 of the games on the 4th line. I think unless he starts to suck, he wouldnt be a bad fit there.

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:21 PM
  #156
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pyrola seems to be lighting it up this preseason.. how many points do you guys expect out of him this year?

and JVR too for that matter

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Old
09-29-2009, 09:12 PM
  #157
illone84
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So has Pyorala made the team?



Sorry haven't been following him too much!

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Old
09-29-2009, 09:47 PM
  #158
Garbage Goal
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@tuckrr- Wow, you really don't know what you're talking about do you?

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Old
09-29-2009, 10:41 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
He shouldnt and wont be a 3rd line center on our team.
I fixed this one for you... give the man a little more credit. He has alot of time ahead of him. Im sure that he can someday become a scoring line center. Just not now... and certainly not on our roster.

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Old
09-29-2009, 11:24 PM
  #160
sa cyred
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
I fixed this one for you... give the man a little more credit. He has alot of time ahead of him. Im sure that he can someday become a scoring line center. Just not now... and certainly not on our roster.
I like the guy, dont get me wrong, but his playing style is more focused on defense, faceoffs, and pk then anything else. I dont think he would fit on a scoring line. Shutdown line on another team... maybe.

That being said, its BS that we might not sign him. Im 100% in agreement to sign him.

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Old
09-29-2009, 11:46 PM
  #161
tuckrr
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personally i think betts is better than asham OR powe (but not by a ton)
it won't make a huge difference since none of those players are really offensively talented. if you really want points, i'd throw maroon on that line. He could score more than any of the 3.

i think asham=powe for the most part, and betts has a slight edge. he may not of scored previously because of his crappy ice time and line mates, but with giroux + JVR he will score...

imagine on the line betts gets 20points vs asham getting 25-30
i'd rather have betts get the 20 and save us 10 goals with shot blocking and solid defense than asham get a few more points but allow a few more in while he's on the ice.

there is no right or wrong in this discussion unless you are nostradamus which i doubt you are.

as for speculation, i think that between betts and asham neither is going to help the SCORING a ton. i never said betts could outscore asham, i said he'd make the line better.
bottom line is that 3rd player isnt going to bring a ton of offense anyway, so i'd rather have it be someone who can make up for JVR/giroux possible lack of defense (not that they are bad at defense).

the difference in defence between asham and betts is greater than the difference in offence

Bettsdefense - Ashamdefense > Ashamoffense -- Bettsoffense

asham = powe (for this equation)

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Old
09-30-2009, 06:36 AM
  #162
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I don't understand how people view Powe and Asham as equal. He's got speed and well... speed with a lot of effort and hustle. That screams 4th line player. Asham actually has some good puck skills. And as mentioned he is physical and will drop the gloves to protect both of our young guns.

Consider this, in 682 minutes and 30 seconds of ice time last year Asham put up 8 goals and 12 assists. In 633 minutes of ice time last season Powe put up 6 goals and 5 assists. This statistical data is only further supported by the greater ability Asham shows with the puck relative to Powe.

I don't think Asham will light the world on fire, but he's certainly capable of a 35-45 point season playing alongside Giroux. He put up 8 goals playing a bit over 8 minutes a game with much weaker players. I foresee 15-20 goals and 25ish assists if he is healthy and playing on the 3rd line.

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Old
09-30-2009, 07:29 AM
  #163
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I'm completely happy with

Gagne-Richards-Pyorala
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
JVR-Giroux-Asham
Carcillo-Betts-Laperreire
Powe
Cote

I love Asham with the young guys. As has been mentioned, the guy has some skills, throws his weight around, and will "police" the ice for them. I'm quite happy with that line.

As for Betts over Powe, it pains me to not have Powe on this team, but adding a borderline elite PKer and very good faceoff man is a huge addition.

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Old
09-30-2009, 08:30 AM
  #164
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Homer should have 23 man roster today by 3pm?

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Old
09-30-2009, 08:34 AM
  #165
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Betts needs to get signed, he's exactly what the team needs. He's a good faceoff guy, a great pk'er and a good defensive player. You can't ask for much more for a 4th liner, especially considering some of the 4th liners we've had who were just bodies really and didn't provide much more than that.

Hartnell Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Pyorala
JvR- Giroux- Asham
Powe Betts Lappy
Carcillo

I'd have Carcillo and Powe split time and maybe move Powe up to the third line if Asham can't keep up. He's looked good so far in the preseason, so I'd leave it alone since its working.

Timonen Coburn
Pronger Carle
Parent Syvret
OKT

Carle needs to step his game up back to where it was at the end of last year. If he can do that and Timonen and Coburn can regain their chemistry in the next couple weeks we're going to have an incredibly solid team.

I honestly think this team is one of the best in the league and I never think that. I always think that we're good but not a real strong contender. But I look at this roster and I see a lot of scoring, a lot of creative offensive players, two of the best Dmen in the league, a lot of grit, a lot of speed, a lot of defensively responsible players, and a talented goalie with something to prove and a me against the world mentality.

I'm gettin pumped haha.

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Old
09-30-2009, 08:36 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illone84 View Post
So has Pyorala made the team?



Sorry haven't been following him too much!
Barring a moronic move by the GM yes he has made the team. From what I've heard he's been one of our better players so far.

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Old
09-30-2009, 09:40 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Homer should have 23 man roster today by 3pm?
He needs to give the roster to the NHL by 3 PM or the team will be fined.

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Old
09-30-2009, 10:07 AM
  #168
Four Boilermakers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Betts needs to get signed, he's exactly what the team needs. He's a good faceoff guy, a great pk'er and a good defensive player. You can't ask for much more for a 4th liner, especially considering some of the 4th liners we've had who were just bodies really and didn't provide much more than that.

Hartnell Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Pyorala
JvR- Giroux- Asham
Powe Betts Lappy
Carcillo

I'd have Carcillo and Powe split time and maybe move Powe up to the third line if Asham can't keep up. He's looked good so far in the preseason, so I'd leave it alone since its working.

Timonen Coburn
Pronger Carle
Parent Syvret
OKT

Carle needs to step his game up back to where it was at the end of last year. If he can do that and Timonen and Coburn can regain their chemistry in the next couple weeks we're going to have an incredibly solid team.

I honestly think this team is one of the best in the league and I never think that. I always think that we're good but not a real strong contender. But I look at this roster and I see a lot of scoring, a lot of creative offensive players, two of the best Dmen in the league, a lot of grit, a lot of speed, a lot of defensively responsible players, and a talented goalie with something to prove and a me against the world mentality.

I'm gettin pumped haha.
This is perfect.

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Old
09-30-2009, 10:14 AM
  #169
Wolfy*
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Homer seems to be slow, the final roster must be ready within four hours.

If it doesn't include Betts, does it mean he wasn't signed? Because we have to carry 3 goalies? ****

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Old
09-30-2009, 01:12 PM
  #170
medgett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Betts needs to get signed, he's exactly what the team needs. He's a good faceoff guy, a great pk'er and a good defensive player. You can't ask for much more for a 4th liner, especially considering some of the 4th liners we've had who were just bodies really and didn't provide much more than that.

Hartnell Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Pyorala
JvR- Giroux- Asham
Powe Betts Lappy
Carcillo

I'd have Carcillo and Powe split time and maybe move Powe up to the third line if Asham can't keep up. He's looked good so far in the preseason, so I'd leave it alone since its working.

Timonen Coburn
Pronger Carle
Parent Syvret
OKT

Carle needs to step his game up back to where it was at the end of last year. If he can do that and Timonen and Coburn can regain their chemistry in the next couple weeks we're going to have an incredibly solid team.

I honestly think this team is one of the best in the league and I never think that. I always think that we're good but not a real strong contender. But I look at this roster and I see a lot of scoring, a lot of creative offensive players, two of the best Dmen in the league, a lot of grit, a lot of speed, a lot of defensively responsible players, and a talented goalie with something to prove and a me against the world mentality.

I'm gettin pumped haha.
lol, I live in Vancouver and I picked Pyo in the 26th round of a 13 man pool. 11 of 13 guys there have never heard of him. The sleeper of sleepers. I'll look like a hero if this works out.

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Old
09-30-2009, 01:19 PM
  #171
Protest
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lol, I live in Vancouver and I picked Pyo in the 26th round of a 13 man pool. 11 of 13 guys there have never heard of him. The sleeper of sleepers. I'll look like a hero if this works out.
If he sticks with Gagne and Richards for most of the year he's bound to score points. Thats probably pretty good value for the 26th round haha.

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Old
09-30-2009, 01:20 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
If he sticks with Gagne and Richards for most of the year he's bound to score points. Thats probably pretty good value for the 26th round haha.
Also likely to have a quality +/- too. However, we all know that the lines will move some.

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Old
09-30-2009, 01:23 PM
  #173
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Yeah, I'm still not totally sold on Pyro offensively (not a bad thing), I think he'll be very solid, but if he breaks 30-35 points, I'll be (pleasantly) surprised.

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Old
09-30-2009, 03:56 PM
  #174
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Yeah, I'm still not totally sold on Pyro offensively (not a bad thing), I think he'll be very solid, but if he breaks 30-35 points, I'll be (pleasantly) surprised.
Yeah me either. We'll see.

I E-mailed my hard core buddy in Sweden to get his take on what we've seen so far on Pyro versus what he has seen over the past few years. his response was basically that yes Pyro is still developing and is for sure a late bloomer so you never know but he feels that Pyro is still a better fit on a third line and to be used as a 2 way steady performer kind of guy.

On another note he did point out that he likes that Pyro is paired with Richards. He feels those two could really have some shutdown capabilites against teams like the caps and Pens. Through preseason I've been looking a lot more at the offensive side of his game, but I think come playoff time his two way play is what we'll all like.

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Old
09-30-2009, 03:59 PM
  #175
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by bjorn041386 View Post
I don't understand how people view Powe and Asham as equal. He's got speed and well... speed with a lot of effort and hustle. That screams 4th line player. Asham actually has some good puck skills. And as mentioned he is physical and will drop the gloves to protect both of our young guns.

Consider this, in 682 minutes and 30 seconds of ice time last year Asham put up 8 goals and 12 assists. In 633 minutes of ice time last season Powe put up 6 goals and 5 assists. This statistical data is only further supported by the greater ability Asham shows with the puck relative to Powe.

I don't think Asham will light the world on fire, but he's certainly capable of a 35-45 point season playing alongside Giroux. He put up 8 goals playing a bit over 8 minutes a game with much weaker players. I foresee 15-20 goals and 25ish assists if he is healthy and playing on the 3rd line.
If you want a veteran with Giroux/JVR, I am fine with either Asham or Lappy.

However, not to get too specific here, but you do realize that Asham has been around forever and Powe got his first crack at the NHL last year. You have to assume that Powe is going to improve and get better where as we have seen the best of Asham.

Based on those statistics, which are not far off at all....I say Powe>>>>>Asham.

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