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Old
11-30-2009, 05:07 PM
  #276
BringBackStevens
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I wouldn't call myself "extremely negative" on MA Bourdon and Lehtivuori, but there are serious question marks about both of them, most significantly Bourdon's speed.
Thats why they weren't first or second round picks. Most guys picked out of those rounds have question marks. However, Lehtivouri looked very good in the WJC a year or two back when i saw him play, and Bourdon impressed everyone in the Q. Doesn't mean it will translate but they both have good potential.

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I am getting the impression on Matsumoto that he may be a tweener, doesn't have the offensive skills for the top-6 and doesn't have the d-skills for the 3rd line, hope I'm wrong.
You're probably right.

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I wouldn't call Nodl "competent" considering he was pretty bad defensively last year and hasn't made much of an impression so far this year,
He was able to fill in and not be god awful. It looks like he won't develop into what we all hoped, but the kids a great skater and has good size. I wouldn't be surprised if he still made it in the NHL in an energy role.

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also woudn't call Laliberte an NHLer based on 8 games.
And based on what he showed us, I wouldn't call him NOT an NHLer, either. He performed well.

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Bartulis has been impressive, but I have trouble seeing any of the forwards we drafted being top-9 players (which we are going to seriously need).
Well you are only looking at rounds 2-4, we were able to grab guys with top 9 upside elsewhere, like Legein, Maroon, and a few guys with an outside shot to play on a 3rd line such as Kalinski

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11-30-2009, 05:34 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I was just looking at our 2nd-4th round draft picks in the 5 years between 04 and 08, here's what we got.

04: Bellamy (bust), Anderson (bust), Laliberte (marginal NHLer).
05: Bartulis (jury's out), Duschene (bust)
06: Nodl (not looking good), Ratchuk (bust), Bodrov (bust), Matsumoto (bottom-6 prospect, not sure if he makes it), Lehtivuori (3rd pairing prospect), Kovar (bust).
07: Marshall (decent prospect), Klotz (wtf?)
08: Bourdon (serious questions), DeSerres (bust)

So of those 15 picks, I'd say we have one good prospect (Marshall), 1 decent prospect (Bartulis), and 5 serious question marks (Laliberte, Nodl, Matsumoto, Lehtivuori, Bourdon). I'd personally be shocked if more than 2 of those question marks ever become NHL players.

I look at that 06 draft where we had 6 picks in those rounds and didn't come out with a single good-looking prospect and I kind of have to ask questions. But then at the same time, the Flyers have done a very good job in the first round and picked up some decent guys in the later rounds.

So are you guys okay with this kind of record or should we be doing better?
2009
3rd: Morrison (looking great); Bertilsson (looking good)
5th: Riopel (AHL/NHL call-up?)
6th: Labrecque (possible, but long-shot); Wellwood (possible bottom six?)
7th: Lauridsen (not high on)

2008
1st: Sbisa (very good, but messed up development?)
3rd: Bourdon (possible 3-4 o-def, boom or bust); DeSerres (not good)
6th: Rinaldo (possible agitator?)
7th: Eriksson (looking great)

2007
1st: vanRiemsdyk (awesome)
2nd: Marshall (possible 3-4 guy, worst case: bottom pairing)
3rd: Klotz (nothing special)
5th: Kempe (bust)
6th: Kalinski (great utility guy); Maroon (possible NHL crease menace)
7th: Phillips (okay)

2006
1st: Giroux (awesome)
2nd: Nodl (solid utility guy unless he finds offense); Ratchuk (bust); Bodrov (head case?)
3rd: Matsumoto (AHL scorer)
4th: Lehtivuori (bottom pairing or bust); Kovar (bust)
5th: Rheault (bust)
6th: Dupont (bust)
7th: Popov (possible third line wing?)

2005
1st: Downie (utility/third line fill-in/agitator)
3rd: Bartulis (bottom pairing)
4th: Duchesne (bust)
5th: Beaulieu (nothing special)
6th: Flatters (bust)
7th: Clackson (nothing special)

2004
3rd: Bellamny (nothing special)
4th: Anderson (bust); Laliberte (possible secondary scoring winger)
5th: Zarb (bust); Pisellini (bust)
6th: Scurko (bust); Cabana (bust)
8th: Houle (bust); Gawryletz (bust)
9th: Grant (bust); Carter (bust)

2003
1st: Carter (awesome); Richards (awesome)
3rd: Fraser (4th liner); Ruzicka (KHL talent); Picard (bottom pairing); Potulny (secondary scoring winger call-up); Kozak (bust)
4th: Romy (bust)
5th: Tremblay (bust)
6th: Beauchemin (bust); Hostikka (bust)

2002
1st: Pitkanen (1-2 defenseman)
4th: Ruggeri (bust); Baranov (bust)
5th: Morris (bust)
6th: Korovkin (bust); Mormina (AHL defenseman)
7th: Brunelle (bust)

2001
1st: Woywitka (bottom 6)
3rd: Sharp (talented NHL sniper)
5th: Timonen (bust); Bruckler (bust); Malek (bust)
6th: Seidenberg (bottom pairing); Razin (bust)
7th: Douville (bust); Printz (bust)

2000
1st: Williams (NHL scorer)
3rd: Drozdetsky (bust)
6th: Cechmanek (survived a while); Shields (bust)
7th: Eichelberger (bust); Lefebvre (bust)
8th: Kelly (bust)
9th: Kopecky (bust)

1999
1st: Ouellet (bust)
4th: Feniak (bust)
6th: Rudenko (bust)
7th: Kasparik (bust); Pletka (bust)
8th: Nystrom (bust)

1998
1st: Gagne (awesome)
2nd: Beckett (bust); Forbes (bust)
4th: Morin (bust)
5th: Belanger (bust); Prosofsky (bust)
6th: Niittymaki (solid #2)
7th: Ondrik (bust); Divisek (bust)
8th: Pistek (bust)
9th: Hubacek (bust); St. Jacques (bust); Skrobot (bust)


That's our drafting record back to Gagne's class. Quite a lot of busts. In reality most NHL prospects bust. The Flyers are actually among the best drafting teams in NHL history (I remember an article that we were #3 and Devils were #1 in last 25 years or something). Out of Marshall, Bourdon, Maroon, Eriksson, Morrison, Nodl, etc (our top prospects) not all will make it to the NHL, but we still have a very good, though often underrated (due to lack of stars), group of prospects right now.

I'm very pleased with our drafting record and our current pool.

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11-30-2009, 05:38 PM
  #278
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They rarely come up with anything after Round 1. Although they never have 2nd round draft picks, which as some teams have proven, you can some up with really good players at a comparable rate to the 1st round. The ones who do make it, it's usually somewhere else.

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11-30-2009, 06:23 PM
  #279
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That doesn't even count the Flyers' free agent signings:

Randy Jones - bottom-pairing defenseman
Freddy Meyer - bottom-pairing defenseman
Jim Vandermeer - bottom-pairing defenseman
Darroll Powe - 4th-line forward

And I'm pretty sure there are more.

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Old
11-30-2009, 06:28 PM
  #280
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Which have been good, like draft picks, but not within the draft. They're better identifying college players too old to be drafted.

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11-30-2009, 06:32 PM
  #281
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Yeah, the specific issue I have here is those 2nd-4th rounders. Obviously if you go back to the Gagne draft, the Flyers have a superlative record with the 1sts, but when it comes down to those 2nd-4th roungers where you can find some top-6 forwards and top-4 d-men, it seems like we've been coming up short relative to our record in other areas of player acquisition and development.

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11-30-2009, 06:42 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, the specific issue I have here is those 2nd-4th rounders. Obviously if you go back to the Gagne draft, the Flyers have a superlative record with the 1sts, but when it comes down to those 2nd-4th roungers where you can find some top-6 forwards and top-4 d-men, it seems like we've been coming up short relative to our record in other areas of player acquisition and development.
Morrison, Bertilsson, Bourdon, Marshall, Nodl, Lehtivuori, Bartulis, and Laliberte look at the very least decent. Some look very, very good.

Matsumoto and Bodrov looks iffy.

DeSerres, Klotz, Ratchuk, Kovar, Duchesne, Bellamy, and Anderson are either gone, as good as gone, or look terrible.

That's a 8-7-2 record in rounds 2-4 in my mind so far out of the last 5 years. Not all of the 8 players that look like decent prospects right now will turn out to be good, but still that's a pretty good result of 5 years of drafting with only 2 first rounders still with the organization.

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11-30-2009, 08:07 PM
  #283
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It's kind of important to remember that we got a decent prospect in return for Ratchuk. Therefore, in my mind, that pick isn't really a bust yet. The player is, but not he pick.

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11-30-2009, 08:19 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It's kind of important to remember that we got a decent prospect in return for Ratchuk. Therefore, in my mind, that pick isn't really a bust yet. The player is, but not he pick.
My highest hope for Legein: third line winger with an attitude.

My lowest fear for Legein: he quits hockey again.

I think he's going to fall right in between and become sort of like a Carcillo.

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12-01-2009, 09:31 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, the specific issue I have here is those 2nd-4th rounders. Obviously if you go back to the Gagne draft, the Flyers have a superlative record with the 1sts, but when it comes down to those 2nd-4th roungers where you can find some top-6 forwards and top-4 d-men, it seems like we've been coming up short relative to our record in other areas of player acquisition and development.
Theres a very large luck factor involved as well. Thats not to say theres no skill in making good selections, but as you move further in the draft the chances of succeeding more and more are based on luck

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12-02-2009, 07:11 AM
  #286
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Bottom line is, Holmgren has proven to be a good evaluator of talent in the first round. Not sure about the second, because since the 70s we never have one. Maybe hang on to some of those top 2 rounds and restock the ol' prospect cupboard.

Starting in 2011 that is.

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12-02-2009, 09:31 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckistanFlyerfan View Post
Bottom line is, Holmgren has proven to be a good evaluator of talent in the first round. Not sure about the second, because since the 70s we never have one. Maybe hang on to some of those top 2 rounds and restock the ol' prospect cupboard.

Starting in 2011 that is.
You mean 2012....

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Old
12-02-2009, 01:53 PM
  #288
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You mean 2012....
Well, after this year's trade deadline, probably more like 2013 or 2014...

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12-02-2009, 02:34 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post

1998
1st: Gagne (awesome)
2nd: Beckett (bust); Forbes (bust)
4th: Morin (bust)
5th: Belanger (bust); Prosofsky (bust)
6th: Niittymaki (solid #2)
7th: Ondrik (bust); Divisek (bust)
8th: Pistek (bust)
9th: Hubacek (bust); St. Jacques (bust); Skrobot (bust)
Just to nit-pick, I think Bruno St. Jacques was used in the deal to bring over Kapanen from the Canes.

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12-02-2009, 09:24 PM
  #290
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Great game for Dave Labreque tonight 2 goals 1 assist and 8 shots in a Shawinigan win:

http://www.lhjmq.qc.ca/lang_en/index...d_partie=20494

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12-02-2009, 10:00 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
Just to nit-pick, I think Bruno St. Jacques was used in the deal to bring over Kapanen from the Canes.
Yes he was, but for all intents and purposes he was a bust. It doesn't matter how we used him as an asset. The post was only meant to describe our drafting record, not our trading prowess.

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12-02-2009, 10:23 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by CanuckistanFlyerfan View Post
Bottom line is, Holmgren has proven to be a good evaluator of talent in the first round. Not sure about the second, because since the 70s we never have one. Maybe hang on to some of those top 2 rounds and restock the ol' prospect cupboard.

Starting in 2011 that is.
So far Homer ****ed up Sbisa and JVR was 2nd over all pick.. What prove are you talking about?

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12-02-2009, 11:43 PM
  #293
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So far Homer ****ed up Sbisa and JVR was 2nd over all pick.. What prove are you talking about?
I think outside of the first round. Since 07, we have had some pretty strong later round draft picks that look like they might be something. And definitely WAYYY to early to say Sbisa is dont for.

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Old
12-03-2009, 12:31 AM
  #294
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I think outside of the first round. Since 07, we have had some pretty strong later round draft picks that look like they might be something. And definitely WAYYY to early to say Sbisa is dont for.
I actually mentioned in my system audit a while back that we seem to be evaluating talent in later rounds much better lately.

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12-03-2009, 10:31 AM
  #295
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Eriksson recorded his 4th shutout in 5 games yesterday.

Check out his save at around 30 seconds into the video here: http://www.leksandsif.se/6081.php

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12-03-2009, 10:39 AM
  #296
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Eriksson recorded his 4th shutout in 5 games yesterday.

Check out his save at around 30 seconds into the video here: http://www.leksandsif.se/6081.php
Wow, that is pretty sick

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12-03-2009, 11:26 AM
  #297
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Meet Joacim Eriksson - Full interview here

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Just one year later, at just 19, Eriksson has established himself as a premier goaltender in the Allsvenskan. In 15 games played, Eriksson ranks in the top-three of the major goalie categories with a 2.25 goals-against average with a .931 save percentage.

Eriksson is a butterfly goaltender that catches right-handed, has very quick reflexes, moves well side-to-side and also has good hockey sense. He has decent size and covers the net fairly well. He has the ability to virtually stand on his head and make those huge, game-winning saves. When I’ve seen Eriksson play on video and what I’ve seen in pictures – the first goalie that comes to mind is Henrik Lundqvist.

Let me be the first to tell you; Eriksson has what it takes, and if he stays in the Flyers’ organization, he is the goalie the Flyers have been waiting for. As for our interview…short, to the point and one honest goaltender.

DL - First, can you tell me how young you were when you first started playing hockey? And when did you get the idea that you had a future in professional hockey?

JE -I started playing hockey when I was six years old. I have always dreamt about being professional but it wasn’t until I got to be in the national team, was drafted and got to play with Brynäs (2007-08) when I started thinking about it.
Seems like a great kid, could be a huge steal for you guys..

Great save btw

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12-03-2009, 01:47 PM
  #298
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Sick save. Real sick.

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Old
12-03-2009, 01:55 PM
  #299
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Anyone see him dancing at the end? LOL. I like this kid. Hope he keeps doing well and he turns out to be the goalie we have been looking for.

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12-04-2009, 08:35 AM
  #300
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Don't know if you noticed, but Simon Bertilsson is first reserve D-man in the Swedish WJC-roster and he seems likely to feature as Senators are unlikely to release Erik Karlsson to the tournament.

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