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Weak Teams In the Central Hockey League

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05-21-2010, 04:26 PM
  #26
CHRDANHUTCH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie20 View Post
Amarillo is done and Arizona's franchise was revoked by the league after their attendance dropped by 1K/night this season. There are rumors about Corpus being done too, though not sure if they've hit the public yet. Stay tuned...
CC Caller Times just reported the Ice Rays are joining the NAHL

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05-30-2010, 03:03 PM
  #27
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Ok, so now Amarillo and Corpus are off to the NAHL, and Arizona's status is extremely vague, with most reports pointing toward them folding... I'd bet Odessa is the next domino to fall, since they have no more day trips left... I don't think the CHL is done shedding franchises yet this summer. And according to their 10-Q filing that was posted on another board, the CHL's parent company Global Entertainment is in some serious financial trouble, with a bankruptcy being a serious possibility towards the end of next season!

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06-06-2010, 02:42 AM
  #28
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From an overall view it appears in a round about way the good drawing CHL cities are being picked off by the AHL... The AHL won't move into a city until the CHL clubs fold or relocate for one reason or another. San Antonio, Austin, or Oklahoma City are examples.

At the other end of the spectrum the lower drawing CHL cities which aren't supporting a club financially are being picked up by the NAHL junior hockey. These CHL cities are larger than the bulk of the NAHL cities of the past up north, and their hockey fans will play for tickets. May not be enough hockey fans to support the CHL, AA pro hockey, but more than enough to support junior hockey.

When the CHL was formed in the 1990s, the NAHL did not have a footprint in the southern plains. The NAHL does now... and some lower drawing CHL clubs are switching for financial reasons.

Without enough corporate sponsorships, and a large enough season ticket fan base, they don't have much choice in the matter. New Mexico, Amarillo, and Corpus Christi have fallen, but I see other cities which may switch or join. I see El Paso, Lubbock, San Angelo, Abilene, Waco, Little Rock, and Beaumont support NAHL clubs, and surely all of any more folding CHL clubs such as Odessa, Laredo, Hildago, Allen, North Richland Hills, etc, in the future...

As I noted before Wichita and Tulsa would support an AHL club as readily as Austin, San Antonio, Houston, and now Oklahoma City... Its my view Houston would support a NHL club... Hockey is stronger in the southern plains states more than most Canadians comprehend... Yes hockey has refs problems, but basketball has more problems with refs... Hockey action flows, whereas basketball stops much too often..

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06-07-2010, 11:39 AM
  #29
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Los Arcos Crossing

Article in paper the other day about Global Entertainment Corp being one of several bidding on Los Arcos Crossing Mall site, which is very near where they had hoped to build Coyotes facility prior to Glendale-Global has proposed building an event center that "would host community events and commercial performances"- no mention of anything related to hockey-
Would think they sure could use a team to match up with Sundogs, who are kind of an island by themselves at this point in CHL-

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06-08-2010, 03:56 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert dawg View Post
Article in paper the other day about Global Entertainment Corp being one of several bidding on Los Arcos Crossing Mall site, which is very near where they had hoped to build Coyotes facility prior to Glendale-Global has proposed building an event center that "would host community events and commercial performances"- no mention of anything related to hockey-
Would think they sure could use a team to match up with Sundogs, who are kind of an island by themselves at this point in CHL-
Very true about the Sundogs, Global Entertainment should just wait, instead of building a new arena, they'll have a vacancy at Jobing.com Arena starting in 2011-12 when the Coyotes fly back to Winnipeg

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06-08-2010, 07:01 PM
  #31
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Tucson is another possibility in the future. Currently they are studying the possibility of building a new 10k-15k seat arena downtown to replace their overused old small civic center arena. Everyone from the University of Arizona, concerts, shows, etc. want a new arena. They even schedule the hockey kids and figure skaters as its the only sheet of ice in Tucson, albeit not fully...

Tucson is also studying the possibility of building a new ice rink for the hockey kids an figure skaters as well. Once these facilities are built, we might see the CHL move into Tucson.

Albuquerque is also talking about building a new large arena downtown as well. If its built we might see the CHL return to Albuquerque. The new arena in Rio Rancho was a bust at a very poor location for most of the fans to follow...

Maybe the future is bright in the desert southwest...

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06-08-2010, 09:34 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbkbghockey View Post
Very true about the Sundogs, Global Entertainment should just wait, instead of building a new arena, they'll have a vacancy at Jobing.com Arena starting in 2011-12 when the Coyotes fly back to Winnipeg
AND WHT IF THE Coyotes stay in Glendale past 2011, sbk????????/

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06-09-2010, 12:39 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
AND WHT IF THE Coyotes stay in Glendale past 2011, sbk????????/
Phoenix RoadRunners (ECHL) showed that minor league hockey in a small hockey market can't compete with the nearby NHL club.

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06-09-2010, 11:48 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbkbghockey View Post
Phoenix RoadRunners (ECHL) showed that minor league hockey in a small hockey market can't compete with the nearby NHL club.
proves my point tht the AHL won't work there, sbk, but you missed the point....IEH or whomever lands Phoenix it's not going anywhere w/o NHL approval.

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06-09-2010, 08:33 PM
  #35
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Phx/Tucson

First, Tucson has tried pro hockey- twice- (remember Gila Monsters?)-both teams folded I think before completing one year- if its not U of A, forget about it (Diamondbacks AAA baseball team no longer plays in Tucson)-U of A club hockey actually draws pretty well-
Secondly, main reason last RRunner team failed was centered around lousy hockey arena, zero marketing, and horrible team-yes, having NHL team does not help either-
If Yotes leave after next year, which I think is probable, look for Glendale to get AHL team-maybe-CHL is possible, but I think Jobbing.com is way to big, and it would be tough to make financials work-but with smaller facility located at Los Arcos (in Scottsdale) with no NHL hockey in town- I think it could easily work-

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06-09-2010, 08:58 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert dawg View Post
First, Tucson has tried pro hockey- twice- (remember Gila Monsters?)-both teams folded I think before completing one year- if its not U of A, forget about it
Point of order - the WCHL Gila Monsters did fold in the middle of a season, but it was the middle of their SECOND season, not their first. I know it doesn't make the market any more viable, but I wanted to get the correct information out there.

The other recent failure there was a Joe Milano special - the WPHL Tucson Scorch folded one day into the WPHL season... before playing a SINGLE GAME. Milano later ran a UHL Columbus (Ohio) Stars team that folded in the middle of their first season, while in first-place.

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06-10-2010, 01:18 PM
  #37
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You really have to have a facility before a minor league club can survive without sharing important weekend dates with a university basketball or hockey program... Its really that simple, and Tucson really doesn't have a proper facility... A new arena built for hockey downtown could/would change the situation significantly...

Plus you need an owner with deep pockets to break into a new community unfamiliar with hockey... Folding before the first home game isn't a deep pocket...

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06-27-2010, 05:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyEddie20 View Post
We'll see what happens.

2,500 - 3,000 IS NOT a good crowd in a league that plays 32 home games. That's barely breaking even or small loss. Guess who was in your "Good Crowd" range last year? New Mexico, your big example, with an average attendance of 2,791. The year Lubbock folded, they were drawing better than your “good crowd” with 3,336 per game. They're still gone.

Did Oklahoma City fold because they were foundering? I never said that. I merely said that the league lost the team, which was arguably it's flagship franchise. But more goes into it than that. By losing Oklahoma City, the league lost a team that was in the middle of the league. No less that four teams were within 300 miles of Oklahoma City, which made trips to Oklahoma City (for five teams) a day trip, where the team saves on having to pay out more per diem, and extra day on the bus, and a pile of hotel rooms. (That 300-mile figure is in the CBA.) Did you know that the average travel budget in the CHL was $120,000 last season? And it's only going to go higher as more of these teams at the bottom of the attendance chart fold.

It's not going to take much for the dominoes to start falling. Let's start with Amarillo, which is drawing a stellar 1,515 per night, good for dead last in CHL attendance. Amarillo folds, and Odessa loses it's only day trip. Odessa is only drawing 2,484 per game thus far, so you can bet they are losing money, and there have been several articles over the past few years about how that club is barely hanging on. Then look at Corpus Christi. That team is drawing 2,886 a night, and had the fold-and-unfold drama in the not-too-distant past. If CC is gone, Laredo and RGV are on an island. Bossier-Shreveport nearly folded last year, and I doubt they are doing much better this year. They're drawing almost 1,000 less than they did two years ago. And the team that really shocks me is Arizona. Their average attendance is off 800+ from last season thus far and nearly 1,600 from two years ago, and they were one of the leagues' marquee franchises for their first few years.

Granted, we are in a recession. People have less disposable income. But at the same time, hockey is a business, and businessmen aren't in business to lose money.

The vultures are starting to circle. Right now, I'd bet at least three and as many as six teams folding in the CHL after this season.

The problem isn't wholly in the economy, it's in the business model and it's pervasive in the CHL, IHL, and ECHL. Hockey at that level is in for a rocky summer in 2010, mark my words.
Only two CHL teams folded, Amarillo and Corpus Christi. Corpus folded after increasing their average attendance numbers to over 3.1k whereas Amarillo folded after failing to draw an average of 2k for the first time.

On the other hand the IHL lost three franchises... Muskegon, Flint, and Port Huron... They are merging with the CHL... Evansville will gain a CHL-IHL franchise a year before their new arena is built.

And despite your gloom not one ECHL or SPHL club folded... But in the AHL Lowell lost a franchise... Oklahoma City and Charlotte will gain an AHL franchise for 10-11...

The NAHL couldn't pass up the opportunity to shift into some of the recently failed markets for 10-11. Fresno, Rio Rancho, Amarillo, Corpus Christi, and Flint... The USHL shifted into Muskegon...



Edit: Mod Note -- this thread is more than a year old. Here's a thread on similar topic for 2010-2011 season: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=905896


Last edited by LadyStanley: 05-12-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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