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Old
09-29-2009, 09:45 AM
  #26
Le depisteur
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Spacek = 1st D in Buffalo
Mara = 4-5th D in New-York
Gill = 4-5th D in Pittsburg
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Komisarek = 3rd D in Montreal
Bouillon = 5-6th D in Montreal
Brisebois 6-7th D in Montreal


The, :dunno

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Old
09-29-2009, 09:48 AM
  #27
Habs10Habs
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
I honestly don't know about the callers. I'm sure some would say no to the trade, obviously, for whatever misguided notion.
Fair enough, I was just wondering if the question was open to the callers, or just being discussed by the two talk show hosts.

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Old
09-29-2009, 09:49 AM
  #28
saints96
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I was wondering where my biasism went to.

Sorry man, too hard to resist. I think the word you're looking for is "bias".
thx for the correction

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Old
09-29-2009, 09:53 AM
  #29
saints96
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Two morning show dingbats answer no, Two! And for you that's enough to demonstrate the biasism in Québec? Biasism? You're grasping at straws. There may be other examples of biasism, but this is not it.
please it goes wayyyyy further than 2 morons on CKAC. and you know it,we know it, we ve been seeing it for the longest time and the sad thing is, it will never end


Last edited by saints96: 09-29-2009 at 10:10 AM.
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Old
09-29-2009, 09:55 AM
  #30
LouisJCloutier
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Don't care about POW, you have to be stupid, drunk or totally biased to think that Mara, Gill and Spacek is not a clear upgrade over Komisarek, Brisebois and Bouillon.

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Old
09-29-2009, 10:23 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsNewGeneration View Post
They asked if during the season last year, would you have traded Komisarek,Brisebois and Bouillon for Mara,Gill and Spacek ? Everyone that was asked this question said NO WAY ! I then ask you are Gill, Mara and Spacek not better than (retired) Brisebois, no team ( Bouillon ) and Komisarek ? Am i missing something here or was this a language thing type answer ?
Spacek alone is better than Komi/Brisebois/Bouillion in production. Add in Mara/Gill and you have an extremely capable trio of dmen. Komi, can hit hard, but that won't win you many hockey games. Brisebois was done for 4-5 years ago. And Bouillon was almost out of a job this year.

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Old
09-29-2009, 10:29 AM
  #32
shutehinside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsNewGeneration View Post
They asked if during the season last year, would you have traded Komisarek,Brisebois and Bouillon for Mara,Gill and Spacek ? Everyone that was asked this question said NO WAY ! I then ask you are Gill, Mara and Spacek not better than (retired) Brisebois, no team ( Bouillon ) and Komisarek ? Am i missing something here or was this a language thing type answer ?
The trade would effectively be Komi for Specek, Mara and Gill. Anyone who says no to this trade is a retard IMO.

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Old
09-29-2009, 10:41 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
The trade would effectively be Komi for Specek, Mara and Gill. Anyone who says no to this trade is a retard IMO.
I can see M Langevin waving at you in the background !

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Old
09-29-2009, 11:44 AM
  #34
Patty Roy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsNewGeneration View Post
They asked if during the season last year, would you have traded Komisarek,Brisebois and Bouillon for Mara,Gill and Spacek ? Everyone that was asked this question said NO WAY ! I then ask you are Gill, Mara and Spacek not better than (retired) Brisebois, no team ( Bouillon ) and Komisarek ? Am i missing something here or was this a language thing type answer ?
Bouillon is incredibly overrated by the French media...much like Begin.

Personally its a no brainer that i prefer this years trio to last years.

That said, i would still take Komisarek as the best asset. He wasn't good last year, but he clearly was not at his best. Im sure he will bounce back, at least partially, this season. I would rank them as follows:

1. Komisarek
2. Spacek
.
.
3. Gill
4. Mara
.
.
.
.
5. Bouillon
6. Brisebois

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Old
09-29-2009, 11:44 AM
  #35
Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsNewGeneration View Post
They asked if during the season last year, would you have traded Komisarek,Brisebois and Bouillon for Mara,Gill and Spacek ? Everyone that was asked this question said NO WAY ! I then ask you are Gill, Mara and Spacek not better than (retired) Brisebois, no team ( Bouillon ) and Komisarek ? Am i missing something here or was this a language thing type answer ?
At the very start of last season, I wouldn't have. Komisarek's perceived value and eternal position as a Hab would have overruled all. It's like would I have traded Komisarek alone for Mara (stiff), Gill (pylon), and Spacek (decent 2-way vet). NO WAY!

But I like Mara and Gill so far, they haven't offended me on the ice yet, and they are colourful enough off it or near it. Spacek looks quite good. Komisarek had a miserable season that took some of the lustre away relative to what we perceived him as in October 2008. So today, sure of course, I make the trade. October 2008, no way. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

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Old
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
  #36
McNuts
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Originally Posted by LouisJCloutier View Post
Anyway, O'Byrne could be the next Komi. Or pretty close to it.
O'Byrne could become better than Komi. He's already better with the puck.

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Old
09-29-2009, 12:04 PM
  #37
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
That said, i would still take Komisarek as the best asset. He wasn't good last year, but he clearly was not at his best.
Spacek is probably better than Komisarek, though they are so different as to make a comparison difficult. Positionally sound and can get the puck moving the other way, and more importantly, doesn't need to be paired with Markov to be effective. Besides, hitting and shot-blocking are useful but overrated defensive skills. I'm more biased towards defense that concentrates on preventing shots, getting the puck back from the other guys, and sending the puck the other way on a pass, especially for a team that purports to be about puck possession.

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Old
09-29-2009, 12:45 PM
  #38
shutehinside
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The main difference between Komi and Spacek is that Spacek doesn't need another better defenceman to cover for his mistakes. Not to mention Komi has a one sided game and can never play on the PP whereas Spacek can play in any situation.
Hence Spacek is a #1 D and Komi is at best a #2 unless he improves imo.

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Old
09-29-2009, 12:48 PM
  #39
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsNewGeneration View Post
They asked if during the season last year, would you have traded Komisarek,Brisebois and Bouillon for Mara,Gill and Spacek ? Everyone that was asked this question said NO WAY ! I then ask you are Gill, Mara and Spacek not better than (retired) Brisebois, no team ( Bouillon ) and Komisarek ? Am i missing something here or was this a language thing type answer ?
Yea, I couldn't believe they actually talk about this and made it sound as if we were getting the bottom end of that stick..

I'd take Mara, Gill and Spacek over Komi, Breezer and Bouillon any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I can't believe this is even a question..
Let's keep in mind that Offensive Dman >> Defensive Dman.

So right there,
Spacek > Komi because he'll bring us at least 40pts.
Mara >>> Brisebois (and he's retired)
Gill (O'Byrne will get some games in and he's better imo) >>> Bouillon (trouble finding a team and the only deal possible was at Nashville for 750K)

It's not even a question..


Last edited by Kriss E: 09-29-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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Old
09-29-2009, 01:19 PM
  #40
shutehinside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I can't understand why anyone wouldn't make that trade. But I guess some people just look at things differently than others.
I think it comes down to two main reasons.
1) Bias towards French players and over valuing them. Boo barely got a contract, while Brisebois was never offered one, Dandenault was cut etc..
2) Because Komisarek is a hard hitting, shot blocking defenceman, he became a fan favorite.

realistically, the French defencemen who left have been replaced by far more competant players. As for Komi, his aggrssiveness and shot blocking overshadowed his lack of defencesive ability coupled with his complete lack of offence. People need to realise that you don't have to hit a player to be effective in the defencive zone. Hall Gill isn't overly physical but he has a very active stick and drapes around players to knock the puck off their sticks. Markov rarely hits anyone, put his positioning is Lidstromesque combined with his speed and dexterity. Even Spacek is better defensively then Komi is plus he brings a tonne of offense as well.

Bottom line here is that Montreal fans & media tend to over value our players to unrealistic levels. It's nice to have management who don't care about how good the media says the players are and have the balls to make the moves necessary to improve the team with an unbiased view.

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Old
09-29-2009, 01:32 PM
  #41
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Komi for spacek =NO
Breezer for Mara=Yes
Bouillon for Gill= NO

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Old
09-29-2009, 01:33 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
Komi for spacek =NO
Breezer for Mara=Yes
Bouillon for Gill= NO
....

way to make it work for you

Komi for Spacek = maybe depending on the teams needs at that point
Breezer for Gill = YES
Mara for Bouillon = Yes

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Old
09-29-2009, 06:37 PM
  #43
shutehinside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
Komi for spacek =NO
Breezer for Mara=Yes
Bouillon for Gill= NO
Why anyone want to trade a hulking, shut down defencemen who was responsible for shutting down one of the top offensive lines in the NHL to win a cup over Bou, who barely got an NHL contract this year is beyond me!

In case the sarcasm isn't shining through here's a to help.

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Old
09-29-2009, 06:53 PM
  #44
shutehinside
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I have difficulty believing this. Everyone?

If that is the case, maybe people will change their mind after a few games this season.
I can not wait to see the Leafs trying to deal with our PP.

I am also optimist with Pearns coaching of the d-men. I also hope Gill to be an added value in teaching other d-men some tricks.

Don't get me wrong. I love Brisebois, Komi and Cube but... we are stronger in defense.
It's everyone who they allowed on air after screening their calls. Or as a result of those "live" polls they have on Fox news where the announcer makes the case for his POV and then takes an immediate poll. Results are always 99% in the affirmative.

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:02 PM
  #45
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In the end it is all relative to the cap hit represented by each of the players and also the total cap hit. Purely in terms of hockey talent...I would pick Spacek, Mara and Gill over those fellas without a shadow of a doubt.

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:15 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
Komi for spacek =NO
Breezer for Mara=Yes
Bouillon for Gill= NO
All this hard working job and tunderous bodychecks that got Bouillon injured throughout his career, Gill can do it with a simple pokecheck and a couple of crosscheks in front of the net. Gill is Way more effective at what he does than Bouillon.

Bouillon is a better hockey player than Gill but for what they bring for a 6th Dman its a no brainer Gill all the way.

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:38 PM
  #47
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To this day I feel that Gainey's best accomplishment this summer is what he did with our defense. I definitely think that our group of new defensemen brings more than the ones that have departed in spite of the fact that I liked Komo and Cube.

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Old
09-29-2009, 08:12 PM
  #48
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Komi for Spacek = nah... well to be fair its not like ive watched that many Buffalo Sabres games
Breezer for Mara = YES
Bouillon for Gill = Yes

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Old
09-29-2009, 08:58 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
French media still think Bouillon could be a #4. RDS even said that Bouillon should get around 2.25m on July 1st.
Honestly i agree with them...he is so underated... He can surely play as a 5-6th D...

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Old
09-29-2009, 09:19 PM
  #50
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Honestly, I wanted to trade Komi at the deadline last year we'd have gotten a first ++. That may be what they're basing their valuation on.

In reality, Komi is overvalued based on his shot blocking and aggressiveness. These are valuable attributes, but he actually succeeded in making Markov look bad last year. Spacek is superior offensively and defensively. Until Komi improves his puck movement he is a major liability who needs to play with a teams #1 to cover his ass.

Boullion, who is American BTW, is a warrior but couldn't make this team this year, and maybe shouldn't have last year. Mara is also a warrior and might have a hard time making the team. He's an upgrade in every aspect of the game.

Brisebois.... don't know where to start. Here's a guy who would never have been a star any where but here. He had offensive skills in his prime but those were long gone and defensively he was a pylon. Gill is an upgrade and then some.

Dandy... great player in his day... those are long gone.... that he was seen as a valuable asset here last year shows how truly poor we were defensively.

Honestly which would you rather.

Markov/Komi
Hammer/Breezer
Boullion/ Gorge
Dandy/O'Byrne


or

Markov/Spacek
Hammer/Mara
Gill/Gorge
O'Byrne/Weber

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