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espn's hockey analysts on re-alignment...

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Old
10-01-2009, 12:45 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
The organizations I refer to are distressed franchises.
This is not a pissing contest.
I wasn't meaning to step on anyone's toes, devsfan87; I was just pointing out that on the basis of attendance it could be a touchy thing for a Devils' fan to be criticizing other teams. And besides, the Devils have been a very successful on-ice franchise, something that most of those teams you listed haven't brought home to their respective fanbases.

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10-01-2009, 12:49 PM
  #27
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Not trying to compare , thats just not the best area in the world. Just driving there is an adventure. My point is that might be part of the reason why people don't like to go to that venue.

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10-01-2009, 12:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
Hey junior we've been in the NHL for 75+ years. Wait your turn. But with that said I've always included Columbus in my talks about re-alignment. Also I think Detroit has been promised a spot in the EC before the CBJ came along.
The DRW are in the Western Conference to stay. It makes little sense, but the NHL is what it is . Very little logic is used.
But lets for a moment look at the balance of teams in time zones..
There are 17 teams located within the Eastern Time Zone. Of those Detroit and Columbus are the westernmost cities. It only makes geograhic sense to have those two franchises in the WC strictly for balance purposes.
Sorry..
The only way this works out (Det in the EC) is if teams transfer to other cities or are eliminated from the league.
It is what it is.

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Old
10-01-2009, 12:51 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I wasn't meaning to step on anyone's toes, devsfan87; I was just pointing out that on the basis of attendance it could be a touchy thing for a Devils' fan to be criticizing other teams. And besides, the Devils have been a very successful on-ice franchise, something that most of those teams you listed haven't brought home to their respective fanbases.
If it were strictly an attendance issue ,you'd be making a good point.
But then again some other teams would then be in the same boat.

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10-01-2009, 12:53 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
The DRW are in the Western Conference to stay. It makes little sense, but the NHL is what it is . Very little logic is used.
But lets for a moment look at the balance of teams in time zones..
There are 17 teams located within the Eastern Time Zone. Of those Detroit and Columbus are the westernmost cities. It only makes geograhic sense to have those two franchises in the WC strictly for balance purposes.
Sorry..
The only way this works out (Det in the EC) is if teams transfer to other cities or are eliminated from the league.
It is what it is.

3 options:

1. Unbalanced league, MLB does it and it works.
2. Move 2 struggling franchises west. Pick any 2 of 4-5 teams.
3. Contraction nobody want to hear that so first two options are for the better.

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Old
10-01-2009, 12:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheAngryHank View Post
Not trying to compare , thats just not the best area in the world. Just driving there is an adventure. My point is that might be part of the reason why people don't like to go to that venue.
Yep..It's not the easiest place to get to. But half the fans take mass transit at least part of the trip into Newark.
BTW when the Devils played in the Meadowlands, they didn't draw particularly well ( for a top tier franchise) either.

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10-01-2009, 12:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
The DRW are in the Western Conference to stay. It makes little sense, but the NHL is what it is . Very little logic is used.
But lets for a moment look at the balance of teams in time zones..
There are 17 teams located within the Eastern Time Zone. Of those Detroit and Columbus are the westernmost cities. It only makes geograhic sense to have those two franchises in the WC strictly for balance purposes.
Sorry..
The only way this works out (Det in the EC) is if teams transfer to other cities or are eliminated from the league.
It is what it is.
Now that is an opinion that I do have to take exception to. Not saying that you aren't correct, but whatever the reality is it isn't definitely something I don't agree with... and I will continue to argue the point that certain alignments should definitely be changed.

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10-01-2009, 12:56 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
3 options:

1. Unbalanced league, MLB does it and it works.
2. Move 2 struggling franchises west. Pick any 2 of 4-5 teams.
3. Contraction nobody want to hear that so first two options are for the better.
In a perfect world ,you may be right. As the NHL is operated, you are suggesting a major stretch. No way the NHL board of governors is going to jump thru that many hoops to accomodate one franchise.

On contraction..We agree to disagree. I think there are too many teams.

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10-01-2009, 01:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Now that is an opinion that I do have to take exception to. Not saying that you aren't correct, but whatever the reality is it isn't definitely something I don't agree with... and I will continue to argue the point that certain alignments should definitely be changed.
Ok. Argue. But I am in the corner of practicality.
Do I think Detroit should be in the EC? Yeah, why not.
Is the NHL going to move Det to the EC? Probably not
Ya just deal with the conditions as they are and move on.

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10-01-2009, 01:01 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
In a perfect world ,you may be right. As the NHL is operated, you are suggesting a major stretch. No way the NHL board of governors is going to jump thru that many hoops to accomodate one franchise.

On contraction..We agree to disagree. I think there are too many teams.
It would be 2 franchises. Detroit and Columbus.

OH I agree with you on contraction, I also think that the NHL expanded too fast and into bad areas. But the word "contraction" starts wars on HF Board.

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10-01-2009, 01:02 PM
  #36
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I actually like the idea of having one or two teams from each conference bounce around to different city's. If they aren't making any money at home move them around a bit to generate some income.It's possible they might tap into a market no one knew existed in a city thats been over looked. That type of exposure can only help the league as a whole.For the people in those smaller city's it would be an event they might attend in lue of nothing better to do.

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10-01-2009, 01:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
Ok. Argue. But I am in the corner of practicality.
Do I think Detroit should be in the EC? Yeah, why not.
Is the NHL going to move Det to the EC? Probably not
Ya just deal with the conditions as they are and move on.
That's easy for someone who's teams travel is 95% in the same time zone. Heck Boston, Philly, NYR, NYI are all within 300 mile of you all in the same time zone. DRW have 1 team in the same time zone.

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Old
10-01-2009, 01:13 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
3 options:

1. Unbalanced league, MLB does it and it works.
2. Move 2 struggling franchises west. Pick any 2 of 4-5 teams.
3. Contraction nobody want to hear that so first two options are for the better.
No, there are several options, though devsfan87 and some others will probably say that none of them will happen.

1. A geographically mixed Conference structure, with western and eastern, northern and southern Divisions in both Conferences, thus eliminating the issue of eastern teams in a Western Conference.

2. Having one completely Eastern Time Zone Division in the "Western" Conference; like having a Division of teams from the "western" side of the ETZ; and essentially the same in the "Eastern" Conference, with a Division containing some of the more easterly teams from the "west" (likely from the Central Time Zone).

3. As you said, having unbalanced Conferences. It's been the case before and in other Leagues, so it's possible, though I wouldn't say preferable.

4. Relocation of some "eastern" teams to western cities; although this really is an unjustifiable idea.

5. Contraction, but an even worse idea than #4, IMO.

6. Or eliminating Conferences altogether and have all Divisions play against every other Division the same number games, thus removing the problem, as in #1, of having some eastern teams in a Western Conference.

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Old
10-01-2009, 01:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
That's easy for someone who's teams travel is 95% in the same time zone. Heck Boston, Philly, NYR, NYI are all within 300 mile of you all in the same time zone. DRW have 1 team in the same time zone.
If I may just say this: Exactly!

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10-01-2009, 01:29 PM
  #40
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The only way Atlanta relocates is if they want to move the team from Downtown Atlanta to the northern suburbs of Atlanta (Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Norcross). Since Philips Arena is one of the most profitable arenas in the world, that's unlikely.

The Atlanta Flames left because the owner was strapped for cash through his other properties. Other than that, The Flames survived better than Kansas City or The Rockies did the first time around. The current ownership by committee stinks, but they're not all going to go broke at the same time.

There are just too many people and there is too much potential corporate money to give up on Atlanta. Just win, baby, and they'll pack The Bulb.

I have no problem with Atlanta going West and playing in a new division with Dallas, St. Louis, Nashville, and Columbus. More of a "South-Central" Division. I'm sick of seeing Grampa Bay, The Sunrise Kittens, The Unholy Carolina Divers, and especially Das Krapitals destroying us. The Nashville-Atlanta rivalry would be epic with great road trips!


Last edited by Magnus Fulgur: 10-01-2009 at 01:37 PM.
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Old
10-01-2009, 01:41 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
The only way Atlanta relocates is if they want to move the team from Downtown Atlanta to the northern suburbs of Atlanta (Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Norcross). Since Philips Arena is one of the most profitable arenas in the world, that's unlikely.

The Atlanta Flames left because the owner was strapped for cash through his other properties. Other than that, The Flames survived better than Kansas City or The Rockies did the first time around. The current ownership by committee stinks, but they're not all going to go broke at the same time.

There are just too many people and there is too much potential corporate money to give up on Atlanta. Just win, baby, and they'll pack The Bulb.

I have no problem with Atlanta going West and playing in a new division with Dallas, St. Louis, Nashville, and Columbus. More of a "South-Central" Division. I'm sick of seeing Grampa Bay, The Sunrise Kittens, The Unholy Carolina Divers, and especially Das Krapitals destroying us. The Nashville-Atlanta rivalry would be epic with great road trips!

If they don't re-sign Kovalchuk say good night to any chance of a) attracting fans and b) winning. They have already let some good talent in Heatley and Hossa leave. Ya I know about the Heatley had to leave, but what about Hossa.

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10-01-2009, 02:03 PM
  #42
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most of these espn ideas are total garbage

a lot of reallignment ideas are based around moving some teams- obviously expanding by 2 teams would give the nhl the chance for 8 team division. i'd like to see divisions based with some common sense and perhaps eliminate the east/west distinction to an extent and have a balanced regular season schedule with division based playoffs

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10-01-2009, 02:39 PM
  #43
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What is with Wings fans and wanting to be separated from the Hawks so badly. I'd hate to say it, but scared much?
I cant recall the last time Chicago made it farther then detroit.

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Old
10-01-2009, 02:51 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
It would be 2 franchises. Detroit and Columbus.

OH I agree with you on contraction, I also think that the NHL expanded too fast and into bad areas. But the word "contraction" starts wars on HF Board.
Two teams battling for the same thing. A spot in the EC.
If you are a veteran of NHL fandom, you know how slowly the wheels of progress turn in the NHL offices.

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10-01-2009, 03:07 PM
  #45
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my proposal (feel free to flame away):


CLARENCE CAMPBELL CONFERENCE

Norris Division
Calgary
Chicago
Detroit
Minnesota

Smythe Division
Anaheim
Edmonton
San Jose
Vancouver


PRINCE OF WALES CONFERENCE

Adams Division
Boston
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto

Patrick Division
New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Washington





50 games per season

play each division opponent 10 times
every other conference opponent 5 times

Top-2 from each division play in divisional round of playoffs
Winners from divisional round play other in-conference divisional winner

Two conference winners play in Stanley Cup finals

3 rounds, all best-of-seven

No inter-league play outside of Stanley Cup finals

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Old
10-01-2009, 09:00 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
No, there are several options, though devsfan87 and some others will probably say that none of them will happen.

1. A geographically mixed Conference structure, with western and eastern, northern and southern Divisions in both Conferences, thus eliminating the issue of eastern teams in a Western Conference.

2. Having one completely Eastern Time Zone Division in the "Western" Conference; like having a Division of teams from the "western" side of the ETZ; and essentially the same in the "Eastern" Conference, with a Division containing some of the more easterly teams from the "west" (likely from the Central Time Zone).

3. As you said, having unbalanced Conferences. It's been the case before and in other Leagues, so it's possible, though I wouldn't say preferable.

4. Relocation of some "eastern" teams to western cities; although this really is an unjustifiable idea.

5. Contraction, but an even worse idea than #4, IMO.

6. Or eliminating Conferences altogether and have all Divisions play against every other Division the same number games, thus removing the problem, as in #1, of having some eastern teams in a Western Conference.
OK so you think placing teams in conferences without regard to geography. And this solves what?
You are forgetting one key factor. COST....Travel costs money. Many NHL teams operate on pretty thin margins. The absence of a lucrative national tv contract hurts small market teams. Additional travel expenses are not a good idea.

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Old
10-01-2009, 09:02 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleDeke View Post
my proposal (feel free to flame away):


CLARENCE CAMPBELL CONFERENCE

Norris Division
Calgary
Chicago
Detroit
Minnesota

Smythe Division
Anaheim
Edmonton
San Jose
Vancouver


PRINCE OF WALES CONFERENCE

Adams Division
Boston
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto

Patrick Division
New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Washington





50 games per season

play each division opponent 10 times
every other conference opponent 5 times

Top-2 from each division play in divisional round of playoffs
Winners from divisional round play other in-conference divisional winner

Two conference winners play in Stanley Cup finals

3 rounds, all best-of-seven

No inter-league play outside of Stanley Cup finals
No flaming..
Just a question...Are you taking any psycological prescription medication?

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Old
10-01-2009, 10:04 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
OK so you think placing teams in conferences without regard to geography. And this solves what?
You are forgetting one key factor. COST....Travel costs money. Many NHL teams operate on pretty thin margins. The absence of a lucrative national tv contract hurts small market teams. Additional travel expenses are not a good idea.
Hmmm..., it would seem then that the finances of the Western Conference teams must be better than that of the Eastern Conference teams. Because certainly having a compact eastern Division in the West would make travel expenses somewhat less for teams in that Conference.

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Old
10-01-2009, 10:26 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Hmmm..., it would seem then that the finances of the Western Conference teams must be better than that of the Eastern Conference teams. Because certainly having a compact eastern Division in the West would make travel expenses somewhat less for teams in that Conference.
How so?

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Old
10-02-2009, 08:29 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Hmmm..., it would seem then that the finances of the Western Conference teams must be better than that of the Eastern Conference teams. Because certainly having a compact eastern Division in the West would make travel expenses somewhat less for teams in that Conference.
Using NJD for example. Under the current alignment Buffalo is the longest trip in conference for the Devils at 386 miles.

Now the DRW have in the division alone 2 teams that are Nashville 534 miles and St. Louis 527 miles both of which are much longer trips. And 3 out of four teams in their division are a longer trip then going to Toronto 232 miles.

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