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Old
10-02-2009, 01:30 PM
  #26
braindead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
by the past do you mean the season that Mason struggled and he nearly singlehandedly kept us in games by shutting the door night after night for the last 6 games of the season and then the DRW playoff series, or last season that was admittedly not his best work?

I think we dismiss his talents too easily around here. I also think that his problem is not flopping but rebound control.
Fixed for you. Ellis stunk just as Mason did two years ago, save for the very end of the season. There was a reason that Rinne was called up for the infamous missing equipment game late in the year- we had two goalies laying eggs for most of the season.

I agree he would be much better, though, if he improved rebound control (which has looked better this preseason) or had a D in front of him that actually cleared rebounds (which the Preds stunk at last year).

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10-02-2009, 02:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
by the past do you mean the season that Mason struggled and he nearly singlehandedly kept us in games by shutting the door night after night, or last season that was admittedly not his best work?

I think we dismiss his talents too easily around here. I also think that his problem is not flopping but rebound control.
I think pac meant the coaching staff was flip flopping the goalies.

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10-02-2009, 02:24 PM
  #28
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I definitely think Ellis should start the opener in Dallas and then Rinne can start the home opener. Rinne should be the No. 1 goalie until further notice, but nothing wrong with playing Ellis against his former team on the road.

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10-02-2009, 02:50 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Fixed for you. Ellis stunk just as Mason did two years ago, save for the very end of the season. There was a reason that Rinne was called up for the infamous missing equipment game late in the year- we had two goalies laying eggs for most of the season.).
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we may have to agree to disagree, he wasnt league dominating, but far from terrible

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10-02-2009, 05:49 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachyderm I View Post
in the past flip flopping in the net has cost this team dearly. Rinne.
Care to cite an example? The only times we've switched goalies post-lockout are when we've been forced to (Vokoun's pelvic thrombophlebitis), or when the goalie we started with sucked (Mason in 07-08, Ellis last year). To me, when one goalie is doing is sucking it up, playing the other goalie is the most logical thing to do, especially when you expect to be right in the thick of the playoff race and don't have time to let the sucky goalie play through his problems. That's very much the boat we're in right now.

I expect Ellis to at least start against Dallas tomorrow night. If he doesn't, I'll be preparing myself for a very unpleasant final scoreline...

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10-02-2009, 10:28 PM
  #31
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I also can't see how changing goalies has "cost this team dearly".

Goalies sucking has cost the team dearly at times. Whether Trotz changing to another guy has usually helped is another question, maybe the guy sucking would have improved faster by staying in. But it's far less likely that changing "cost" when the other guy wasn't playing well to begin with.

There's no way to prove it. But saying it cost us a lot seems a stretch. I would say our combined goalie save percentages have been darn good during the existence of the franchise. So maybe Trotz (and Korn) have decent methods.

It sure is popular for hockey sites around the web right now to say one of Nashville's problems is that we never have "one guy". When there's no proof that "one guy" is the best way. I know I saw one of those hockey stats debunking websites say that seemed to be bull, but they didn't have enough evidence. I can't find the link, but usually the reason you have "one guy" is because the second guy isn't as good. That hasn't usually been the case in Nashville. Mason wasn't as good as Vokoun, no, but he probably was when Vokoun was recovering from injury. In that case Trotz went back to Vouky when he still had issues, but said he was ready, and it took many games before he looked like Vokoun. So maybe the "one guy" theory didn't work that year.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 10-02-2009 at 10:35 PM.
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Old
10-02-2009, 10:46 PM
  #32
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First it's funny we're basing this off preason, we're rebound control doesn't mean nearly as much, especially in drills.

Second it was preseason. Remember when Marian Cisar would light it up in preseason?

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10-02-2009, 10:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
2007-2008 Predators 44 23 10 - 3 6 .924 2.34
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we may have to agree to disagree, he wasnt league dominating, but far from terrible
His series against Detroit was pretty amazing as well. Essentially, he played as well as Rinne did this year.

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Old
10-03-2009, 01:40 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I expect Ellis to at least start against Dallas tomorrow night. If he doesn't, I'll be preparing myself for a very unpleasant final scoreline...
Trotz will probably starts Ellis. But if Rinne starts, I expect we'll get high quality play. It's been preseason. We know Rinne is skilled. Besides, it's been a full week since our last game. Just how long is Rinne supposed to sit?

I think if Rinne starts, he'll stone them. But maybe Ellis can do the same. I think if Trotz gets a good performance and a win out of the first game goalie, that's also who plays the home opener. No way Ellis (or Rinne) starts and then sits after winning the opener.

Edit: I changed my mind. I see no reason why even if Ellis plays well, Rinne doesn't still have a good shot to play at home. If Ellis plays out of his mind though, Trotzies m.o. would say he has to play him. Ellis gets to fire the first salvo in the goalie battle! Always an advantage...


Last edited by OpenWheel: 10-03-2009 at 03:14 PM.
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Old
10-03-2009, 02:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Trotz was interviewed on NHL Live this morning and said that Ellis would be starting. Apparently, mentioned "they didn't want him, so he has something to prove" as part of the reasoning. I know Dan takes that seriously and combined with his preseason performance, I think we'll see some solid goaltending tonight...
Well how about that...

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10-04-2009, 08:07 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
I think pac meant the coaching staff was flip flopping the goalies.
Yep. Well more or less...

Unless injury or fatigue set in I say let one man have the bulk of the work load. Seems in the past they haven't done that. Seems to me they just couldn't decide.


And as for Ellis, last night wasn't too bad. I realize he is a fairly decent goalie but I'd still pick Rinne as the #1.

worstfaceoffmanever I don't have dates and games but I do have a fairly strong memory of what I would call the great debate "Dunham or Vokoun", "Vokoun or Mason" syndrome. While Vokoun was clearly the #1 I remember there was a time when we didn't know who would get the start. It was the same when Dunham was here. It was the same last season.


Did I spell Vokoun correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
I also can't see how changing goalies has "cost this team dearly".

Goalies sucking has cost the team dearly at times. Whether Trotz changing to another guy has usually helped is another question, maybe the guy sucking would have improved faster by staying in. But it's far less likely that changing "cost" when the other guy wasn't playing well to begin with.

There's no way to prove it. But saying it cost us a lot seems a stretch. I would say our combined goalie save percentages have been darn good during the existence of the franchise. So maybe Trotz (and Korn) have decent methods.

It sure is popular for hockey sites around the web right now to say one of Nashville's problems is that we never have "one guy". When there's no proof that "one guy" is the best way. I know I saw one of those hockey stats debunking websites say that seemed to be bull, but they didn't have enough evidence. I can't find the link, but usually the reason you have "one guy" is because the second guy isn't as good. That hasn't usually been the case in Nashville. Mason wasn't as good as Vokoun, no, but he probably was when Vokoun was recovering from injury. In that case Trotz went back to Vouky when he still had issues, but said he was ready, and it took many games before he looked like Vokoun. So maybe the "one guy" theory didn't work that year.
I personally feel that keeping the goalie guessing as to who will start, and it has gone into the post season, has been a set back. And if other sites are saying how far off can I be?


Last edited by Pachyderm I: 10-04-2009 at 08:15 AM.
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Old
10-04-2009, 02:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachyderm I View Post
I personally feel that keeping the goalie guessing as to who will start, and it has gone into the post season, has been a set back. And if other sites are saying how far off can I be?
And I'm saying that's just a pure guess. If we had some data to show our goalies had a bad teams save percentages, it would be something to talk about. Of course we all make guesses. I've been hoping Rinne would seize the job myself. I prefer a clear number one...

But now I realize I don't care as long as the winning percentage overall is good. I believe as long as both goalies get fairly frequent work, it's probably some wives tale that it won't work well.

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10-04-2009, 05:33 PM
  #38
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Minnesota did well with two #1 goalies for several years.

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10-04-2009, 07:08 PM
  #39
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I don't like that Rinne played so well last year and possibly lost his job without playing a single regular season game this year. That being said Ellis deserves more starts with his play last night. We have two good goalies but I'm more of a fan when a team goes with one main guy. We have no reason to ride either goalie like NJ does Broduer but having one main guy is key.

I believe it was Hamhuis last year that said it was easier to play in front of a goalie that starts consistently because you become used to their tendacies. Rinne and Ellis play completely different styles. I don't care which one they go with. Just go with a guy and stick with him.

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10-05-2009, 11:23 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
And I'm saying that's just a pure guess. If we had some data to show our goalies had a bad teams save percentages, it would be something to talk about. Of course we all make guesses. I've been hoping Rinne would seize the job myself. I prefer a clear number one...

But now I realize I don't care as long as the winning percentage overall is good. I believe as long as both goalies get fairly frequent work, it's probably some wives tale that it won't work well.
That may sum it all up anyway. "W's".

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Old
10-05-2009, 11:43 AM
  #41
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They season is young. I don't think Ellis has stole away anything yet.

The scary part is both are UFA next year.

They need to identify who is their guy long-term. One would have think it's Pekka, though he's only about 2 years younger than Ellis.

They can use this duel-tadem to their advantage in contract negotiations.

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10-05-2009, 11:58 AM
  #42
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Do you guys see them splitting starts most of the season? I know it is a little early but just curious on your thoughts about it.

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10-05-2009, 09:14 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
I don't like that Rinne played so well last year and possibly lost his job without playing a single regular season game this year. That being said Ellis deserves more starts with his play last night. We have two good goalies but I'm more of a fan when a team goes with one main guy. We have no reason to ride either goalie like NJ does Broduer but having one main guy is key.

I believe it was Hamhuis last year that said it was easier to play in front of a goalie that starts consistently because you become used to their tendacies. Rinne and Ellis play completely different styles. I don't care which one they go with. Just go with a guy and stick with him.
I don't think Rinne has "lost" anything yet, but it's not like Ellis ws just the better of the two in the preseason. Ellis was outstanding while Rinne was downright awful. Obviously it doesn't mean anything, but I think Trotz made the right decision. We don't have the luxury of being able to let Rinne find his game in the first few contests. I think the smart thing to do is play the hot hand--which was and is Ellis--until he falters. THEN insert Rinne back in, and go from there.

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10-06-2009, 07:35 AM
  #44
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A big goalie battle between Ellis and Rinne, both who are UFAs after this season, will benefit this club. I could care less who starts, as I'm not one of those people that sides with a particular goalie like so many seem to do (just like starting quarterbacks for the Titans... what is it with this town). Ride the hot goalies and let them battle it out.

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Old
10-07-2009, 12:25 PM
  #45
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Goalies announced for this weekend...

Quote:
dan ellis to start thurs and rinne sat. Monday not determined yet. Anderson maybe out for Avs w groin strain?
http://twitter.com/predsradio/status/4686588277

Surprised, but not shocked. Assume that Monday's starter will truly indicate who is No. 1a and who is No. 1b...

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Old
10-07-2009, 12:28 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
http://twitter.com/predsradio/status/4686588277

Surprised, but not shocked. Assume that Monday's starter will truly indicate who is No. 1a and who is No. 1b...
Wow, who knew? But here's my question what if Rinne and Ellis, both on contract years, both look like 1a's? Does the team trade them or hold on to them and ride the two war horses to the playoffs?

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Old
10-07-2009, 12:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Wow, who knew? But here's my question what if Rinne and Ellis, both on contract years, both look like 1a's? Does the team trade them or hold on to them and ride the two war horses to the playoffs?
don't you pretty much have to keep them both & try to unload 1 or the other at the draft ? ... so you can have a better sense of who had the better season overall ?

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10-07-2009, 02:36 PM
  #48
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Rinne 26 61.90%
Ellis 16 38.10%

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Old
10-07-2009, 02:47 PM
  #49
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Big surprise. Some of us disagree with Trotz choice of who should get playing time. I'll bet that's never happened before.

Ellis can get hot, he's a good goalie. And getting the home opener fits Trotz' usual method of rewarding the previous start. Hopefully it'll work out. I was hoping Rinne would seize the job as Ellis has seemed a bit more hot and cold. But it's hard to argue too much against Ellis, career or just right now. Glad Rinne gets to start shaking the rust off on Saturday.

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10-07-2009, 04:01 PM
  #50
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Rinne can be the far better goaltender. We saw that last year. If i had to choose between the two, it would be Rinne for that reason. Ellis simply will never have adequate rebound control IMO.

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