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Kaberle and Toskala

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Old
10-01-2009, 02:00 PM
  #1
waitin425
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Kaberle and Toskala

I am in no way suggesting they trade either of these guys. This is simply a post to see what everyone thinks they could get for them, packaged or not, and who the potential trading partners are.

IF the monster becomes the number 1 and shows himself as the second coming of christ, Toskala, COULD be traded.

Kaberle, has always been a name thrown around (on HF Boards) and could garner some return as well.

I am thinking the Leafs might try to re-acquire a 1st Rd pick for this year and/or next by trading someone.

Burke is certainly active and nothing surprises me.

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10-01-2009, 02:16 PM
  #2
waitin425
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Okay...I guess I've gotta hang myself out there...Here it goes.


Philly gets;

Kaberle 4.25 mil
Toskala 4 mil

for

Toronto gets;

Jeff Carter 5 mil
Randy Jones 3 mil

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10-01-2009, 02:20 PM
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I don't see philly giving away Carter this year. Defense is decent already, although Toskala isn't a terrible idea for philly.

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10-01-2009, 02:35 PM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitin425 View Post
Okay...I guess I've gotta hang myself out there...Here it goes.


Philly gets;

Kaberle 4.25 mil
Toskala 4 mil

for

Toronto gets;

Jeff Carter 5 mil
Randy Jones 3 mil
First of all, Philly is not trading Carter. End of story. Having spent all that money on Pronger, they won't be in the mix for Kaberle anyway.

Second, you've got the nasty reality of Kaberle's NTC, and the fact that he refused to waive it to go to Philly in the past.

Third, Toronto really needs Kaberle's puck moving and mobility, so why move him now? Leafs look in fantastic shape for a run at a playoff spot.

Anyway you slice it with Kaberle, I'll bet you find the standard pattern here at hfboards: Leaf fans grossly overestimate his value, and fans of most other teams grossly underestimate his value. And, as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.


Toskala's trade value is hard to judge. I think he has been a pretty solid netminder for most of his career, perhaps a bit underrated around the league. But, he is coming off a injury plagued weak season. He needs to re-establish his value before he becomes a useful trade chit again. That said, if he has a nice season, and a contender has hole in net, he might have good value at the deadline.

One reality is that the Monster could shine this year. That would relegate VT to backup status. He'd then be in a situation of having a bad year as #1, and then being beaten out for a rookie. So, his market value might be fairly marginal.

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Old
10-01-2009, 02:45 PM
  #5
8BostonRocker24
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Boston was willing to trade Kessel for Kabs and the 7th pick. Kessel was traded for two 1st and a 2nd... So....



Kaberle's value = 1st + 2nd?

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Old
10-01-2009, 03:02 PM
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Boston was willing to trade Kessel for Kabs and the 7th pick. Kessel was traded for two 1st and a 2nd... So....



Kaberle's value = 1st + 2nd?
Kaberle's value may well be in that range, but I don't think you can conclude that based on the botched Kessel deal. A 7th in a very strong draft is worth more than two future first rounders, with neither certain to be lottery picks and one coming in a very weak draft.

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Old
10-01-2009, 03:05 PM
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To Washington: Kaberle, Toskala

To Toronto: Nylander, Theodore

Washington gets their 2nd pairing PMD and a solid if overpaid backup for Varlamov, Toronto gets their center for Kessel and a great starting goalie with Vezina experience to help ease Gustavsson into the NHL game. Everyone wins big.

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10-01-2009, 03:06 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
To Washington: Kaberle, Toskala

To Toronto: Nylander, Theodore

Washington gets their 2nd pairing PMD and a solid if overpaid backup for Varlamov, Toronto gets their center for Kessel and a great starting goalie with Vezina experience to help ease Gustavsson into the NHL game. Everyone wins big.
And, here comes Alex28 with yet another ridiculous Nylander proposal. What a surprise!

Gad, dude, give it a rest already.

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10-01-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
To Washington: Kaberle, Toskala

To Toronto: Nylander, Theodore

Washington gets their 2nd pairing PMD and a solid if overpaid backup for Varlamov, Toronto gets their center for Kessel and a great starting goalie with Vezina experience to help ease Gustavsson into the NHL game. Everyone wins big.
Toronto says hell no.

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10-01-2009, 03:15 PM
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Nylander, Fleischmann, Godfrey for Streit, Schremp

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10-01-2009, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Nylander, Fleischmann, Godfrey for Streit, Schremp
I'm guessing you're a Capitals fan.

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10-01-2009, 03:22 PM
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Nylander, Fleischmann, Godfrey for Streit, Schremp
Yeah, take our best player and our new forward for crap.

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10-01-2009, 03:25 PM
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Value of Kaberle: 1st round pick + Decent prospect/2nd rounder
Value of Toskala: almost zero. if he picks it up though, and has a great season, obviously his value would go higher

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10-01-2009, 03:27 PM
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Tomas Kaberle's value depends on how much a team needs a PMD.

His value should be high for what he brings to a team in terms of his puck moving ability, and strong two-way play. His cap hit should be measured as a positive as well.

Glad to say these are one of the reasons why Toronto is not moving him a tall. Burke wanted to move Kaberle only if he could have replaced him with a similar player. That did not happen, so he shouldn't even be mentioned in trade talks.

Toskala, on the other hand, is an intriguing option for teams who have a question mark in goaltending. He's in a contract year, so you know he'll give the extra effort. He's going to play in front of a much better defense than he did the last 3 years or so. Also, I think he's one of the assets that could bring back a late first rounder at the deadline, if Gustavsson is ready to take over at that time.

I hope Toskala has a good season. He's surely got the potential to do so.

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10-01-2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Kaberle's value may well be in that range, but I don't think you can conclude that based on the botched Kessel deal. A 7th in a very strong draft is worth more than two future first rounders, with neither certain to be lottery picks and one coming in a very weak draft.
So you know where the Leafs are going to finish the next two years?

Please PM me Power Ball numbers when you get a chance.

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10-01-2009, 03:49 PM
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Burke isn't trading Kaberle without a replacement for him.

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Old
10-01-2009, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
So you know where the Leafs are going to finish the next two years?

Please PM me Power Ball numbers when you get a chance.
Doesn't take much of an investigation to realize the Leafs were never a lottery team. They haven't been once in the entire rebuild.

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10-01-2009, 04:09 PM
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Burke isn't trading Kaberle without a replacement for him.
He's especially not gonna package him with Toskala's contract to dilute his value. If anything Burke will take on a bad contract to get extra value back.

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10-01-2009, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
So you know where the Leafs are going to finish the next two years?

Please PM me Power Ball numbers when you get a chance.
It's just common sense. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. GMs always prefer to deal in known quantities, anything that is uncertain at the time of the deal obviously is less valuable.

Edit: But anyways, as regards the thread, Kaberle isn't getting traded. There's no need to even think about it. Toskala's situation is too uncertain to have any idea right now - with a good year, he could be worth as much as a second, with a bad one he'd probably clear waivers.

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10-01-2009, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slave View Post
Tomas Kaberle's value depends on how much a team needs a PMD.

His value should be high for what he brings to a team in terms of his puck moving ability, and strong two-way play. His cap hit should be measured as a positive as well.

Glad to say these are one of the reasons why Toronto is not moving him a tall. Burke wanted to move Kaberle only if he could have replaced him with a similar player. That did not happen, so he shouldn't even be mentioned in trade talks.

Toskala, on the other hand, is an intriguing option for teams who have a question mark in goaltending. He's in a contract year, so you know he'll give the extra effort. He's going to play in front of a much better defense than he did the last 3 years or so. Also, I think he's one of the assets that could bring back a late first rounder at the deadline, if Gustavsson is ready to take over at that time.

I hope Toskala has a good season. He's surely got the potential to do so.
About the only prediction I'd be willing to make about any of these players is the above. Toskala is too good not to bounce back, IMO.

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10-01-2009, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
It's just common sense. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. GMs always prefer to deal in known quantities, anything that is uncertain at the time of the deal obviously is less valuable.
Bingo.

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10-01-2009, 04:21 PM
  #22
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As a few others have already mentioned, Kaberle doesn't get moved without a viable replacement in the wings.

As we currently do not have one, he becomes pretty invaluable to us.

If we were taking a longer route to rebuilding, a la sinking to the bottom of the standings for a few years and acquiring draft picks, then trading Kaberle might've made some sense. But Burke has been very active in exploring all other venues (the college scene, free agency, trades) to infuse this team with youth and talent, so at the present point, it makes a lot more sense to hang onto this guy.

There's a reason why you don't see the same plentitude of Kaberle threads out there anymore.

It's a bit of a relief. For all fans, no doubt. =P

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10-01-2009, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
It's just common sense. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. GMs always prefer to deal in known quantities, anything that is uncertain at the time of the deal obviously is less valuable.

Edit: But anyways, as regards the thread, Kaberle isn't getting traded. There's no need to even think about it. Toskala's situation is too uncertain to have any idea right now - with a good year, he could be worth as much as a second, with a bad one he'd probably clear waivers.
It's a gamble, but I will take my chances at getting a top-5 the next two years over this year's #7 pick. To me, there was a huge drop off in talent from 5 to 6, just like 2006.

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Old
10-01-2009, 05:36 PM
  #24
grabo84
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It's a gamble, but I will take my chances at getting a top-5 the next two years over this year's #7 pick. To me, there was a huge drop off in talent from 5 to 6, just like 2006.
Well, its awfully hard to say right now. We'll see I suppose. Either way, I think its safe to say that most fans are more tolerant of taking risks on futures (draft picks, etc.) than GMs are. I don't think the prospect of maybe getting a similar or higher pick in one or both of the two years would be enough to make most GMs pass on a player like Nazem Kadri.

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