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Havlat or Hossa probably on the move...

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Old
03-29-2004, 09:55 AM
  #1
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Havlat or Hossa probably on the move...

With Alfie locked up for potentially the next 8 years...so that means that one of Havlat or Hossa won't be too happy playing a role as a #3 RW in as soon as this summer or in the next year or two.

The most likely candidate to be moved of course would be Havlat. He's younger and cheaper right now and isn't quite as valueable as Hossa is to the Sens right now.

However...the combination of Spezza and Havlat and the blooming chemistry they have might make Hossa less valueable to the Sens in the next few years.

Ottawa has two very good young RW prospects as well in Eaves and Bochenski that are going to be ready for the NHL prime time within the next 3-5 years...

With Emery as well...the Sens might be in the market for a goalie...but I can't really see anyone being of interest other than the likes of Luongo I think...but that horse has been beaten one too many times already.

Ottawa is probably looking for a powerforward Center or LW that is young and fits into the sens mould of speed kills.

This could get interesting....let's discuss.

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03-29-2004, 10:15 AM
  #2
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Martin currently seems to be starting with all three on RW, and as the game progresses, double shifting Havlat for a few shifts on LW. Havlat's ice time isn't that bad (16:50 a game), and can easily be tweaked up a couple of minutes as Havlat continues to progress. I don't see a problem...

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03-29-2004, 10:28 AM
  #3
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Me neither, especially since Havlat and Hossa will continue to be underpaid for their talent level for at least the length of Alfie's contract.

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03-29-2004, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Ottawa is probably looking for a powerforward Center or LW that is young and fits into the sens mould of speed kills.

This could get interesting....let's discuss.
I think a trade is something that the Sens may start to consider this summer.

As for possible returns, that young powerforward LW is the first thing on the list, but we've looked before, and always come up empty, so I'm not getting my hopes up. Here's some ideas of other things that may be of interest to the Sens:

Forwards:
Powerforward - Been discussed to death. If one is available that meets the criteria, I'm all for it, but not getting my hopes up.

Defensive forward - I think the Sens would really benefit from a defensive type left winger that can play on a top line, and still contribute enough offensively to warrant the ice time that goes with it. A Lehtinen type, but younger. Maybe Sturm in San Jose, but I'd want someone with more offensive talent, if we're talking about guys like Havlat as the bait, and I think the value gap is too high to make up for in picks and prospects for the Sens.

Offensive Left Winger - Essentially, get a Havlat-calibre player back, but one who plays on the left-side (Gaborik, Tanguay, Samsonov). Problem with such a trade, is that no team who has such a player is willing to risk a swap unless they get more value in return, or they are facing similar position problems.

Defencemen:

Even though I'm not happy with how our d-men are playing recently, I think it's temporary, and am not willing to overhaul anything in there. The only type of d-man we're missing is a PP QB, but with Alfie, who plays that role right now, re-signed, I don't see the need.

Goalie:

This is the hot issue at the moment. I think our needs in this department will be decided by the playoffs. I'm not a fan of bringing in just "above-average" goaltending talent. If you're going to pay the price to bring in a keeper, it has to be at the top-end level, otherwise, I rather look within to see if that will plug the hole. The guys that I'd like to see are guys like Brodeur, Theodore, Turco or Luongo, but I don't expect any of those guys to become available. After that, names like Khabibhulin or Giguere are on my list, who are a bit more plausible, but not neccessarily easy to acquire.

Package Deals:

The Sens will not trade one of their RWers for a package of crap. We have a lot of depth of players in between the 2nd or 3rd line player level (Varada, Smolinski, Schaefer, White, etc.), and we don't need more, as we have a hard enough time to make room for them as it is. The Sens ain't too interested in draft picks and prospects either at this point, only as a value equalizer where the value levels are already pretty close.

If the Sens do deal, they do have the luxury of looking for the right deal, which is a good thing.

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Old
03-29-2004, 11:40 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
With Alfie locked up for potentially the next 8 years...so that means that one of Havlat or Hossa won't be too happy playing a role as a #3 RW in as soon as this summer or in the next year or two.

Ottawa is probably looking for a powerforward Center or LW that is young and fits into the sens mould of speed kills.

This could get interesting....let's discuss.
I doubt that Havlat or Hossa gets moved. Especially until Hossa comes up for a new contract after next season. They will both be too cheap.

Ottawa is managing just fine with the three RWs now. With Alfie on the point on the PP, Havlat gets first unit PP time and even strength ice is spread out nicely.

Anyways, let's not discuss it. You know this thread will quickly degenerate into Sens fans claiming that other fans aren't offering enough and other teams fans saying Sens fans overvalue Hossa and Havlat.

Ottawa is not going to be in a problem situation contract-wise for awhile. All three RWers are excellent players. No one is complaining about ice time. Looks just fine to me.

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03-29-2004, 12:57 PM
  #6
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Let's not forget Havlat is a RFA once again this summer...

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Old
03-29-2004, 01:13 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Let's not forget Havlat is a RFA once again this summer...
and still without arbitration rights

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Old
03-29-2004, 02:18 PM
  #8
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Have you considered the fact that Havlat can play Left Wing and I believe that Bochenski can as well. The guys that will probably be on the trading block will be Bonk (Martin whipping boy), Schaefer, White, Pothier and Vermette (all too small), Leschyshyn, de Vries (both make too much money), Van Allan, Ray (both too old). However, Simpson, Ray, Van Allan, de Vries and Leschyshyn I think are the guys who won't be back. The team will have to choose between Smolinski and White as to who will play between Alfie and Bondra. I would hate to see Bonk traded because a Havlat-Bonk-Hossa line is awsome especially on the PP and Hossa needs Bonk. Future looks good, very very good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
With Alfie locked up for potentially the next 8 years...so that means that one of Havlat or Hossa won't be too happy playing a role as a #3 RW in as soon as this summer or in the next year or two.

The most likely candidate to be moved of course would be Havlat. He's younger and cheaper right now and isn't quite as valueable as Hossa is to the Sens right now.

However...the combination of Spezza and Havlat and the blooming chemistry they have might make Hossa less valueable to the Sens in the next few years.

Ottawa has two very good young RW prospects as well in Eaves and Bochenski that are going to be ready for the NHL prime time within the next 3-5 years...

With Emery as well...the Sens might be in the market for a goalie...but I can't really see anyone being of interest other than the likes of Luongo I think...but that horse has been beaten one too many times already.

Ottawa is probably looking for a powerforward Center or LW that is young and fits into the sens mould of speed kills.

This could get interesting....let's discuss.

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Old
03-29-2004, 02:26 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
I think a trade is something that the Sens may start to consider this summer.

As for possible returns, that young powerforward LW is the first thing on the list, but we've looked before, and always come up empty, so I'm not getting my hopes up. Here's some ideas of other things that may be of interest to the Sens:

Forwards:
Powerforward - Been discussed to death. If one is available that meets the criteria, I'm all for it, but not getting my hopes up.

Defensive forward - I think the Sens would really benefit from a defensive type left winger that can play on a top line, and still contribute enough offensively to warrant the ice time that goes with it. A Lehtinen type, but younger. Maybe Sturm in San Jose, but I'd want someone with more offensive talent, if we're talking about guys like Havlat as the bait, and I think the value gap is too high to make up for in picks and prospects for the Sens.

Offensive Left Winger - Essentially, get a Havlat-calibre player back, but one who plays on the left-side (Gaborik, Tanguay, Samsonov). Problem with such a trade, is that no team who has such a player is willing to risk a swap unless they get more value in return, or they are facing similar position problems.

Defencemen:

Even though I'm not happy with how our d-men are playing recently, I think it's temporary, and am not willing to overhaul anything in there. The only type of d-man we're missing is a PP QB, but with Alfie, who plays that role right now, re-signed, I don't see the need.

Goalie:

This is the hot issue at the moment. I think our needs in this department will be decided by the playoffs. I'm not a fan of bringing in just "above-average" goaltending talent. If you're going to pay the price to bring in a keeper, it has to be at the top-end level, otherwise, I rather look within to see if that will plug the hole. The guys that I'd like to see are guys like Brodeur, Theodore, Turco or Luongo, but I don't expect any of those guys to become available. After that, names like Khabibhulin or Giguere are on my list, who are a bit more plausible, but not neccessarily easy to acquire.

Package Deals:

The Sens will not trade one of their RWers for a package of crap. We have a lot of depth of players in between the 2nd or 3rd line player level (Varada, Smolinski, Schaefer, White, etc.), and we don't need more, as we have a hard enough time to make room for them as it is. The Sens ain't too interested in draft picks and prospects either at this point, only as a value equalizer where the value levels are already pretty close.

If the Sens do deal, they do have the luxury of looking for the right deal, which is a good thing.
I don't think that Havlat or Hossa will be dealt instead I believe it will be Bonk because of all the abuse Bonk takes from a lot of fans in this city and he is Jacques whipping boy. Either Smolinski or White will replace Bonk at Centre and Bonk should be packaged with someone else, maybe Schaefer and a prospect for Eric Cole. Cole is young, big, tough and can score and plays Left Wing, he would be perfect but he will cost a lot.

Imagine - Bondra-White-Alfie

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Old
03-29-2004, 02:28 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
I think a trade is something that the Sens may start to consider this summer.

As for possible returns, that young powerforward LW is the first thing on the list, but we've looked before, and always come up empty, so I'm not getting my hopes up. Here's some ideas of other things that may be of interest to the Sens:

Forwards:
Powerforward - Been discussed to death. If one is available that meets the criteria, I'm all for it, but not getting my hopes up.

Defensive forward - I think the Sens would really benefit from a defensive type left winger that can play on a top line, and still contribute enough offensively to warrant the ice time that goes with it. A Lehtinen type, but younger. Maybe Sturm in San Jose, but I'd want someone with more offensive talent, if we're talking about guys like Havlat as the bait, and I think the value gap is too high to make up for in picks and prospects for the Sens.

Offensive Left Winger - Essentially, get a Havlat-calibre player back, but one who plays on the left-side (Gaborik, Tanguay, Samsonov). Problem with such a trade, is that no team who has such a player is willing to risk a swap unless they get more value in return, or they are facing similar position problems.

Defencemen:

Even though I'm not happy with how our d-men are playing recently, I think it's temporary, and am not willing to overhaul anything in there. The only type of d-man we're missing is a PP QB, but with Alfie, who plays that role right now, re-signed, I don't see the need.

Goalie:

This is the hot issue at the moment. I think our needs in this department will be decided by the playoffs. I'm not a fan of bringing in just "above-average" goaltending talent. If you're going to pay the price to bring in a keeper, it has to be at the top-end level, otherwise, I rather look within to see if that will plug the hole. The guys that I'd like to see are guys like Brodeur, Theodore, Turco or Luongo, but I don't expect any of those guys to become available. After that, names like Khabibhulin or Giguere are on my list, who are a bit more plausible, but not neccessarily easy to acquire.

Package Deals:

The Sens will not trade one of their RWers for a package of crap. We have a lot of depth of players in between the 2nd or 3rd line player level (Varada, Smolinski, Schaefer, White, etc.), and we don't need more, as we have a hard enough time to make room for them as it is. The Sens ain't too interested in draft picks and prospects either at this point, only as a value equalizer where the value levels are already pretty close.

If the Sens do deal, they do have the luxury of looking for the right deal, which is a good thing.
I don't think that Havlat or Hossa will be dealt instead I believe it will be Bonk because of all the abuse Bonk takes from a lot of fans in this city and he is Jacques whipping boy. Either Smolinski or White will replace Bonk at Centre and Bonk should be packaged with someone else, maybe Schaefer and a prospect for Eric Cole. Cole is young, big, tough and can score and plays Left Wing, he would be perfect but he will cost a lot.

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03-29-2004, 02:30 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
With Alfie locked up for potentially the next 8 years...so that means that one of Havlat or Hossa won't be too happy playing a role as a #3 RW in as soon as this summer or in the next year or two.

The most likely candidate to be moved of course would be Havlat. He's younger and cheaper right now and isn't quite as valueable as Hossa is to the Sens right now.

However...the combination of Spezza and Havlat and the blooming chemistry they have might make Hossa less valueable to the Sens in the next few years.

Ottawa has two very good young RW prospects as well in Eaves and Bochenski that are going to be ready for the NHL prime time within the next 3-5 years...

With Emery as well...the Sens might be in the market for a goalie...but I can't really see anyone being of interest other than the likes of Luongo I think...but that horse has been beaten one too many times already.

Ottawa is probably looking for a powerforward Center or LW that is young and fits into the sens mould of speed kills.

This could get interesting....let's discuss.

Interesting if it was the pre-Melnik era.
But no.
None will move.
The guy wants to spend.

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Old
03-29-2004, 02:32 PM
  #12
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I proposed earlier this year LW Marco Sturm for RW Martin Havlat.

Flame away.

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03-29-2004, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I proposed earlier this year LW Marco Sturm for RW Martin Havlat.

Flame away.
why? what would be the point of that? 2 years older, less skilled, fulfills less of a need than what havlat provides. Sturm is a good player, but there are a handful of players at havlats age whose talents rival his. Sturm isnt one, no matter his defensive game.

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03-29-2004, 02:49 PM
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Zednik + Hossa/Hainsey for Havlat ?

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03-29-2004, 02:50 PM
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I don't think the coming salary cap and changes to the free agent structure is going to allow a team to keep 3 rw's like alfredsson, hossa, havlat, and lets not forget peter bondra is a rw too.

With this new Alfredsson deal and Havlat an rfa that could be a ufa in the new cba, i will be interested to see how the senators are able to keep peter bondra at $4.5m.

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03-29-2004, 03:22 PM
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Hossa IMO is a top 10 player...I would offer quite a bit....

Thomas Vanek,Jay McKee,Henrik Tallinder,Ryan Miller and a pick.

Obvious overpayment but that is the minumum that Muckler would want.

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03-29-2004, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.M. Fletcher
why? what would be the point of that? 2 years older, less skilled, fulfills less of a need than what havlat provides. Sturm is a good player, but there are a handful of players at havlats age whose talents rival his. Sturm isnt one, no matter his defensive game.
Heh....I disagree. Pre-injury, I had Sturm ranked as equal value to Martin Havlat. I'm not sure if I would take that trade now, as Marco is coming off a major injury, but before hand, I probably would have. Sturm is a leader, plays defense, is a LW, and has tremendous offensive talent. Havlat is better offensively of the two, but in every other category he is outmatched. Plus, Sturm is a LW, which the Sens need, and Havlat is a RW, which the Sharks need. I actually thought it was a bit fair. At the very least, a deal centerpiecing these two could work (although I doubt SJ ever moves Sturm).

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03-29-2004, 05:47 PM
  #18
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Klesla for Havlat ?

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Old
03-29-2004, 05:49 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Hossa IMO is a top 10 player...I would offer quite a bit....

Thomas Vanek,Jay McKee,Henrik Tallinder,Ryan Miller and a pick.

Obvious overpayment but that is the minumum that Muckler would want.
How about forgeting Mckee and Tallinder and replacing them with Kalinin?

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03-29-2004, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
Defensive forward - I think the Sens would really benefit from a defensive type left winger that can play on a top line, and still contribute enough offensively to warrant the ice time that goes with it. A Lehtinen type, but younger. Maybe Sturm in San Jose, but I'd want someone with more offensive talent, if we're talking about guys like Havlat as the bait, and I think the value gap is too high to make up for in picks and prospects for the Sens.
You had Arvedson........

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03-29-2004, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Hossa IMO is a top 10 player...I would offer quite a bit....

Thomas Vanek,Jay McKee,Henrik Tallinder,Ryan Miller and a pick.

Obvious overpayment but that is the minumum that Muckler would want.
Wow, Sens should take that and run.

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Old
03-29-2004, 05:56 PM
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To Ottawa: Erik Cole, Carolina's 2004 2nd Round Pick, and Tomas Malec
To Carolina: Martin Havlat

Carolina could use a scorer like Havlat, and Ottawa could use the semi-powerforward game that Erik Cole plays. He's a gamer and is fantastic in the playoffs.

To Ottawa: Kevin Weekes and Jeff O'Neill
To Carolina: Marian Hossa and 2005 2nd Round Pick.

How do those deals look? Not both, but one or the other.

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Old
03-29-2004, 06:04 PM
  #23
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Theodore for Havlat,Volchenkov ?

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Old
03-29-2004, 07:13 PM
  #24
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I wonder if Martin has tried converting Havlat to LW. If not, he should try getting a Smyth-type player for him.

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03-29-2004, 08:15 PM
  #25
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Jokinen for Havlat?

Panthers get a gamebreaking offensive talent, Sens get a 24 yr old physical, two way center...

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