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Old
10-17-2009, 09:44 AM
  #76
leafmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
It's way too early to say that Duchene doesn't have elite finish. Besides, It would help if Duchene played as much minutes as Tavares.


There's a reason why Tavares was ranked as the number 1 pick in 2009 since he was 15. He simply gets the job done even without some key components such as speed and two-way ability.


It was the problem for Tavares heading into the draft. Duchene has elite talent, skill, speed, two way ability, overall was much better than Tavares. Both had potentially to be franchise players, but Tavares has generational scoring ability. The next 'Wayne Gretzy" Syndrome, you could call it. Teams want those type of players, just go back to the 93 draft with Daigle. He had his flaws, but like any team would jump at the opportunity to find a generational player.


Then came their playoff performances in the OHL. Tavares was lacking dedication and Duchene dominated, which really pushed Duchene to be even considered near the top 2(Hedman,Tavares) and then people questions Tavares's heart.


In the end, both were elite offensive studs(obviously Tavares had an extra gear or else he wouldn't have be ranked number 1 for the few years.) but the consensus vote was that people would rather have a player who is reliable both ends of the ice, then a player who can score a marginally 10-20 points more per season)
There is that playoff myth again. Go check out how Tavares and Duchene did against Windsor in the playoffs last year.
Why can't this just be left alone while NHL careers move forward.
So far Tavares shows up just as advertised - he scores just like he has all his life and is a plus player after 6 games while adjusting to a new level. This on a struggling team also.
Duchene hasn't scored and is a minus player on a very hot team.
Really, so what ,who cares ........you can spin these things any way you want but the OHL stuff from last year is in the books and just isn't true.

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11-03-2009, 09:34 AM
  #77
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Good read - article on Tavares

My favorite piece:
Quote:
"Look at Sidney," Weight said. "Sidney came into the league and made a lot of fancy plays early in his career. (Now) he's all about going to the net, throw it wide and get the rebound... That's why he's getting 125 points instead of 85. He knows what his game is now.

There are less highlights, perhaps, Weight figures, "but more production. And a tougher player to play against. Less turnovers."
Doug Weight's a true pro.

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11-03-2009, 10:14 AM
  #78
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I loved Guerins jab at him.. clean up your room!!! Classic!

Since this the location for it, Im giving my thoughts on JT, just a month into the season..

Overall - as expected. ( dont discount this has a bad rating)

Offensive - Between the dots, he is as advertised, lethal, and definitely a threat to bury one regardless of the situation. Given time and space, he is a joy to watch and something the Isles havent had in a LONG TIME.

Skating - they said he wasnt a strong or fast skater, it its spot on. He tends to use his ass to clean the ice more times than you would expect, but that is going to happen when you are new to the NHL level and arent used to the size and speed of other players. Hopefull he progresses and eventually stays more vertical in the future.


My concern with him, and this is nothing which is unexpected or a problem with him, as it is a concern with ANY rookie is his passing/decision making.

I posted this in the GDT for the Oilers game. When you see a game in person, you can watch what you want, not what the TV shows you.

JT has made consistently questionable/bad passes and decisions in his own end as well as offensively. Seems like he needs to tell himself that he should SHOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT and not pass all the time.

not going to belabor that point as all rooks go through the same thing. Cant really ask more from the kid at this point. Hopefully he can just stay healthy, progress and have a great and promising first year!!!!

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11-03-2009, 11:25 AM
  #79
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I think you make some real good points Bones.

From the circles and below in the offensive zone, he really is an exciting player to watch b/c you always get the sense he's about to do something special with the puck. He really has a great shot, and always finds open space (as advertised). It's amazing b/c for long stretches you won't see him in the offensive zone, and then he just "pops" up open in front of the net for a great scoring chance. And with some of the high quality chances he's been getting, he could easily have 8 or 9 goals so far. But to me, he's a threat whenever he's in the offensive zone down low.

But, as Bones said, his decision making has to improve. And that's not a knock on him at all, b/c he is only 19 years old and I think most people expect him to make some rookie mistakes as part of the learning curve. When he's carrying the puck into the offensive zone, and this is probably just a part of his game now b/c he did it in the minors, but he tries too much to beat a defenseman 1 on 1. And he has to realize that alot of these defensemen, even the "mediocre" ones, are still big and strong enough to knock him off the puck. Sometimes Tavares just needs to dump the puck in deep and get on a forecheck.

I don't think his skating has been bad at all. He definetely needs to get stronger, but that will come as he gets older. I think he has been solid in his own end. Again, sometimes he just needs to make the simple play with the puck, but most times I think he's in proper position.

But so far, through 14 games, he's been great for the Islanders. It's not just the points (although 11 through 14 games isn't too shabby for a rookie), but he does a nice job of creating opportunities, and to me, appears to have the "drive" to improve. Even during games I get the sense that if he's off to a slow start, he has another gear or "switch" he turns on and can have a really impressive shift. I know it's early and I'm sure the 4 game winning streak is getting to my head a little, but I really haven't been this excited about the team in a long while. I just hope they continue to develop and grow.

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11-03-2009, 11:55 AM
  #80
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As mentioned, his offensive stats aren't too shabby (5-6-11 in 14 games), in my opinion, they are excellent, and actually, they could easily be doubled. He's hit a ton of posts and been stoned by some good goalies on some great shots too. Also, I can think of 5 or 10 passes where his team mates have been stoned or hit posts. One thing I love about him, is he isn't shy, he will shoot 6 or 7 shots a game, and I love that. He seems to have amazing confidence in his own abilities, and it shows. Offensively, we have to remember, most likely, he will only get better as the season progresses, which is a very exciting thought.

Also I like that he isn't shy when it comes to checking, and has been very good on faceoffs too. There is room for a lot of improvement in his game, but is sure is fun watching him grow game by game. I think he is due to have a couple of those explosive nights very soon (hat trick, or 4 point nights). Overall, I couldn't be happier with his first 14 games.

As far as the scouting reports, I think they are pretty spot on, not the greatest skater, but has fantastic offensive skills and instincts, I think his hands and his hockey mind are what is going to make him a great player in the NHL. Very exciting future for this phenom.

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11-03-2009, 12:10 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I think his hands and his hockey mind are what is going to make him a great player in the NHL. Very exciting future for this phenom.
I agree.. he seems to have great hockey sense. The scouts pretty much nailed it on how he plays.

His skating is not graceful at all... just looks heavy on his skates.. I don't see any acceleration and to be honest he looks like he is in slow motion... but he still seems to get the job done... Imagine if JT had Ovechkin or Crosby skating ability....

I hope he does get quicker on his skates... Do players improve their skating once they get to the NHL?? I don't know.. We have seen Trent Hunter not improve his skating but then we saw a guy like Tim Jackman improve his skating..

I just think if you are a natural skater with a great stride then you just have it.... and if you are not a great skater with a bad stride you can improve but I am not sure how much you can improve at the NHL level....

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11-03-2009, 01:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
As mentioned, his offensive stats aren't too shabby (5-6-11 in 14 games), in my opinion, they are excellent, and actually, they could easily be doubled. He's hit a ton of posts and been stoned by some good goalies on some great shots too. Also, I can think of 5 or 10 passes where his team mates have been stoned or hit posts. One thing I love about him, is he isn't shy, he will shoot 6 or 7 shots a game, and I love that. He seems to have amazing confidence in his own abilities, and it shows. Offensively, we have to remember, most likely, he will only get better as the season progresses, which is a very exciting thought.

Also I like that he isn't shy when it comes to checking, and has been very good on faceoffs too. There is room for a lot of improvement in his game, but is sure is fun watching him grow game by game. I think he is due to have a couple of those explosive nights very soon (hat trick, or 4 point nights). Overall, I couldn't be happier with his first 14 games.

As far as the scouting reports, I think they are pretty spot on, not the greatest skater, but has fantastic offensive skills and instincts, I think his hands and his hockey mind are what is going to make him a great player in the NHL. Very exciting future for this phenom.
Which is honestly the best news of all. We're literally just scratching the surface here with this kid. I think it's mouth-watering to think how good he can be with: (1) some better decision making (will come with time); (2) increased strength (will come with time); and (3) higer quality teammates and linemates (will also come in time- even if we don't bring in anybody- Okposo, Bailey, de Haan, etc. will get better with time too). Good stuff so far...

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11-03-2009, 01:02 PM
  #83
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Please learn to read before you post. Thank you
Must have missed this. In my book, not being reliable in both ends, and therefore in one's own end, is near enough to the same as being a defensive liability. Also, please use 'than' (not 'then') when making a comparison. Numbnuts.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-03-2009, 02:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post

I hope he does get quicker on his skates... Do players improve their skating once they get to the NHL?? I don't know.. We have seen Trent Hunter not improve his skating but then we saw a guy like Tim Jackman improve his skating..
Spezza comes to mind as someone who has improved their skating a lot since his rookie year.

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11-03-2009, 03:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Good read....
I loved that entire article. Guerin at once getting his point across about space and yet joking, the class (and on a message board that overuses the word, it is appropriate here) of Crosby's respectful welcome to JT, and the "anti-HF" insight of Weight that you quote.

And interestingly, Weight refer to JT as a future "winner". Around here, such a term is mocked when used by this poster to describe certain players.

As for JT, he is precisely where one could hope him to be. He's 19, far from finished, and yet already offensively productive. And a determined adult...not a preening "superstar" punk. Good for him. Good for NYI.

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11-03-2009, 03:30 PM
  #86
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There really were some great quotes in that piece.

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11-04-2009, 12:14 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I loved that entire article. Guerin at once getting his point across about space and yet joking, the class (and on a message board that overuses the word, it is appropriate here) of Crosby's respectful welcome to JT, and the "anti-HF" insight of Weight that you quote.

And interestingly, Weight refer to JT as a future "winner". Around here, such a term is mocked when used by this poster to describe certain players.
then again, what does doug weight know!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
As for JT, he is precisely where one could hope him to be. He's 19, far from finished, and yet already offensively productive. And a determined adult...not a preening "superstar" punk. Good for him. Good for NYI.
I was on record wanting Duchene or Hedman, in that order.

Having watched JT in junior and now in the NHL, I'm very comfortable with Tavares as the #1 pick.

I still feel Duchene and Hedman will be great hockey players and it's somewhat unfortunate we couldn't draft all three (as a consolation for all the crap the organization has gone through since the 80s).

But, the way JT carries himself on (and off) the ice, the effort he puts in, the battle he shows along the boards and the drive & determination he displays while trying to score, combined with sheer elite hockey sense is what separates him.

Let's try and not judge him (not aimed at you or any other poster specifically) for who he's NOT (99,66,87) - rather be thankful for what he brings to this organization, looong overdue.

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11-04-2009, 02:19 PM
  #88
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I was on record wanting Duchene or Hedman, in that order.

Having watched JT in junior and now in the NHL, I'm very comfortable with Tavares as the #1 pick.

I still feel Duchene and Hedman will be great hockey players and it's somewhat unfortunate we couldn't draft all three (as a consolation for all the crap the organization has gone through since the 80s).

But, the way JT carries himself on (and off) the ice, the effort he puts in, the battle he shows along the boards and the drive & determination he displays while trying to score, combined with sheer elite hockey sense is what separates him.

Let's try and not judge him (not aimed at you or any other poster specifically) for who he's NOT (99,66,87) - rather be thankful for what he brings to this organization, looong overdue.
Agree with every word. Rest assured, neither TB or Colorado has second thoughts about the players they ended up with this past June. Assembling an NHL roster is not the same as the "my draft pick is better than your draft pick!" simplicity espoused here daily. Watching all three players (as I have) it is clear that they are each quality.

Your comment about how JT carries himself is not a small point. He is quiet and determined (and reliable). Seems to be very low maintenance. All very good. I keep coming back to what coach and player said a month back, at the start of the season - looking for a consistent game, night to night. The fantasy stats will come and are not as critical at this point. Surprise, surprise...though he clearly has aspects of his game to improve, he is playing the same game nightly (rare for a newbie)...and the numbers are following. Keep that up and NYI will end up with a quality, long-term core player (read: a winner, per Doug Weight)...as opposed to simply a quality offensive contributor.

He'll never be confused with Sid (except by the lollipoppers), but he is a quality addition and building block.


Last edited by Trottier: 11-08-2009 at 01:14 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
11-07-2009, 08:27 PM
  #89
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he is so much of a better play maker & passer then I ever thought he'd bed.

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11-07-2009, 09:40 PM
  #90
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he is so much of a better play maker & passer then I ever thought he'd bed.
Gotta agree. I knew his passing wasn't a weakness coming in but I didn't see it as much of a strength. Then again, at the OHL level he really didn't have much of a need to pass the puck that often. He has displayed some tremendous playmaking ability thus far, capped off by that beauty of a pass on Sutton's goal. He looks like the total package so far.

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11-08-2009, 12:55 PM
  #91
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What is a relief is that this kid is "the real deal". Lot's of kids in the history of the NHL have come out of the draft with high expectations, only to turn out flops. This guy could have the same impact Denis Potvin had when he was drafted. The thing that elevates him from a slouch like Yashin is character and attitude.

I haven't had a chance to watch much Isles games lately. Now that I do, it will be a treat watching this this kid. So much upside, it is exciting.

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11-08-2009, 01:01 PM
  #92
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What is a relief is that this kid is "the real deal". Lot's of kids in the history of the NHL have come out of the draft with high expectations, only to turn out flops. This guy could have the same impact Denis Potvin had when he was drafted. The thing that elevates him from a slouch like Yashin is character and attitude.

I haven't had a chance to watch much Isles games lately. Now that I do, it will be a treat watching this this kid. So much upside, it is exciting.
agree on everything, except for the potvin link.

potvin was one of the best defensemen to ever play the game - rare company. tavares looks pretty good given his age, but i'd say he has a long way to go and many hurdles. i'm anxious to see tavares in the playoffs (this year? ) and i wonder how many rings he's going to earn, is it too soon?

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11-08-2009, 01:01 PM
  #93
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Tavares has come better than advertised. Offensively he comes as advertised, but he brings so much more to the table than I thought he would. He is not just a PP specialist, he is a game changer and constantly creates chances on the ice. He doens't take shifts off (so far) and I have seen a commitment to defense which I did not expect yet. So overall who could not be thrilled with how JT is coming about.

Then you have Okposo, the real star on this team. Does EVERYTHING at a high level. In my mind, there is no question that Okposo is the future captain of this team.

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11-08-2009, 01:29 PM
  #94
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Between Okposo and Tavares we have two elite talents. Awesome. The last time that happened was when we had Pierre Turgeon and...um...Benoit Hogue

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11-08-2009, 02:16 PM
  #95
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Between Okposo and Tavares we have two elite talents. Awesome. The last time that happened was when we had Pierre Turgeon and...um...Benoit Hogue
Neither Okposo nor Tavares are elite talents. They may be-they may not be in the future. Only time will tell. It is way too early to compare them Turgeon at this point (especially Turgeon in the prime of his career with the Isles). They have the potential-but that's all it is. It's not actual talent until they reach the potential, and until that point we wont know. And as a side not neither one of them are on pace to reach what Hogue did with in his tenure with the Isles.

edit: and Steve Thomas imo was the 2nd best forward for the Isles on the era of those teams-not Hogue.

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11-08-2009, 02:46 PM
  #96
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It's real early to tell how JT will evolve as a player in the NHL... I like his intensity and competitiveness getting his nose dirty going to the high traffic areas..... Definately has that Canadian mentality which is good... He also has great hands and skills in the offensive zone..

I just don't see the upside to being one the greats in the league.. He just does not have the acceleration or burst in the skating to be mentioned at the top 5 players in the game.... Even Gretzky, who everyone says was not a great skater but Gretzky just seemed quicker to me than JT..... JT seems to move in slow motion....

Huge Islander fan here.. I can see JT being a #1 center for 12-15 years consistently getting close to 80 points or so... Can we really complain about this? I wont..... I just don't see JT being a guy that carries a team...

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11-08-2009, 02:53 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Mr Islander View Post
What is a relief is that this kid is "the real deal". Lot's of kids in the history of the NHL have come out of the draft with high expectations, only to turn out flops. This guy could have the same impact Denis Potvin had when he was drafted. The thing that elevates him from a slouch like Yashin is character and attitude.

I haven't had a chance to watch much Isles games lately. Now that I do, it will be a treat watching this this kid. So much upside, it is exciting.
We as Isles fans have very high hopes for Tavares.
I would be kind of happy if he matched the rookie numbers "that slouch" Yashin put up 1993 of 79 points on an expansion team in a clutch and grab league.

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11-08-2009, 03:19 PM
  #98
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It's real early to tell how JT will evolve as a player in the NHL... I like his intensity and competitiveness getting his nose dirty going to the high traffic areas..... Definately has that Canadian mentality which is good... He also has great hands and skills in the offensive zone..

I just don't see the upside to being one the greats in the league.. He just does not have the acceleration or burst in the skating to be mentioned at the top 5 players in the game.... Even Gretzky, who everyone says was not a great skater but Gretzky just seemed quicker to me than JT..... JT seems to move in slow motion....

Huge Islander fan here.. I can see JT being a #1 center for 12-15 years consistently getting close to 80 points or so... Can we really complain about this? I wont..... I just don't see JT being a guy that carries a team...

MSV: I have to disagree with you about JT: Have you watched the kid play this year? He generates multiple scoring chances a game, numerous time after time every game. Easily JT could have 8-10 more points this year which makes him already top 5 in the NHL in points as a 19 year old on one of the worst supporting casts in the league. MSV: its no secret whom the other teams are keying on when they play the NYI already.

I dont get the skating thing with you at all, the great one at 19 plodded as well, personally I don't think see have ever seen #99 play at age 19 in the NHL. Now, dont get me wrong JT will never score 92 or what was is 212 points in a single season but to cap him at close to 80 points or so a season is cutting him way to short on expectations. I would not doubt 60-80 points iyear from the NYI franchise offensive machine. I am just waiting for the kids first 5 point night becuase already how many games in he had a few chances already to get that bust out 5 point night?


Just becuase JT does not blaze by you does not mean he wont or cant carry a NHL team eventually. Remember the WJC last year? There are a few ways one can dominate a NHL game

1- Ovechkin style where you use raw skills, brute force and all out speed. (this will take a toll on #8 and he may not last 10 years with this style) look at big guy #88 in Philly land for example. Last I looked #8 was hurt this year.

2- Gretzky style: ELITE skill with ELITE hockey IQ.....JT has the ELITE IQ I feel and has great offensive skills.

3- Crosby: ELITE skills, ELITE Hockey IQ and brute raw power and skill..ouch...


and also what the heck is a Canadian mentality? do you mean North American mentality?

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11-08-2009, 03:34 PM
  #99
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John Tavares may never, and probably will never, enter the elite level of Lidstrom, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Luongo, and Brodeur, but who says he has to? You don't need a team of those players to win a cup. It definitely helps, but it isn't necessary. The team > sum of its parts. Hopefully Tavares is more than capable of being a key contributor on a winning team.

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11-08-2009, 03:44 PM
  #100
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What I don't like about Tavares is that he continually doing those weak cross ice passes that easily getting picked up by opposing players and yet I am to see him to adjust. He repeats them in almost every game. Oh and his speed is awful whatever you say. Anyway, as Hunter07 said he may never be on the level of those mentioned franchise players, but for us, the New York Islanders, he is franchise player.

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