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Old
10-04-2009, 09:05 AM
  #26
TheFirebird
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No one's demolishing Howard without reason, the simple fact is that Howard just isn't good enough, especially not good enough to be a backup goalie. When the team is doing poorly, we can't have the backup goaltender come in and suck even harder than the 1st string goalie.

Howard has never been good, only another poorly developed goalie prospect in a system where we haven't had a well developed goalie in more than 50 years ( McCollum might be an exception, but we'll have to see). I don't blame him for this failure though, I blame Meech, Lebda, and Bertuzzi, three players that aren't fit to play in recreational hockey leagues much less professional ones. Why Holland signed the players he did this season I will never know. Stanley Cup hangover, perhaps?

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10-04-2009, 09:27 AM
  #27
Yemack
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Anyone ever thought maybe we need a new goalie coach?

or maybe a dedicated one for our prospects?

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10-04-2009, 09:37 AM
  #28
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Come on... Its one game. At least give the guy a chance before you're ready send him out of town.. He was probably pretty nervous last night. This is the first time he has made the team out of camp and he probably wanted to prove he belongs here. Anyone would get nervous in a situation like that..

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10-04-2009, 09:51 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Redwingsfan View Post
Come on... Its one game. At least give the guy a chance before you're ready send him out of town.. He was probably pretty nervous last night. This is the first time he has made the team out of camp and he probably wanted to prove he belongs here. Anyone would get nervous in a situation like that..
He didn't "make the team out of camp". It was handed to him as early as July. He knew he had it in the bag.

Larsson should be backup right now and IMO should've been backup last year as well.

We should also fire Jim Bedard. Kind of telling the Wings haven't had a top-5 goalie since they hired him...

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10-04-2009, 10:12 AM
  #30
ColdToiletSeats
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if you don't put up nhl numbers in lower leagues how are you gonna do it in the NHL?

Howard got beat by the ****** goalie we once had Ty Conklin

should of took Bertuzzi's money and bought a better goalie Ken Holland just kept saying Howard Howard Howard


Howard isn't ready simple as that he never will be

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Old
10-04-2009, 10:29 AM
  #31
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Howard has my trust. Give him 15 games before we even think about doing something.

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Old
10-04-2009, 10:36 AM
  #32
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Sheesh- fairweather fans much??

I know that not everyone thinks he is the answer, but at some point he has to sink or swim. However, don't drown him in ONE game. He had several quality preseason starts.

Everyone take a DEEP breath and just give them some time. This team is in transition, and the rest of the league is catching up. We just aren't used to being "slightly above average".

Like I told Shoalzie yesterday, I don't really think the Wings are taking these two games as seriously as they perhaps deserve- subconsciously I mean.. They are playing two games in Europe, in several players home country, and then they come home and don't play for five days. To me, it doesn't even feel like the real season. Let's wait and see what happens in Detroit.
I didn't start this thread because of one game. IMO he has never played good while with the Wings. Also if he's going to be a above average NHL goalie he needed to lead the AHL in goaltending. He has had just an average AHL career. How does that = a NHL goalie? He should have been let go and the Wings should have kept Conklin and develope the other goalies. Again my problem with Howard is not due to one game it's due his bad play with Wings and his average to below average play in the AHL.

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Old
10-04-2009, 11:45 AM
  #33
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Personally I was more concerned with the defense.

Personally I'm concerned with team defense. I'm not going to throw our D under a bus, nor a goalie who played one NHL game now that he's officially on the roster. Whatever plagued the team last year is still around, and it's not JUST Lebda, or Meech, or Howard.

Too bad Lilja's not playing or I could blame him.

Z is still trying to do too much on his own line. Dats is too busy playing defense and being handicapped by Homer. Filppula is a great defensive forward who isn't playing too much D because he's trying to figure out how to create plays. Only this year he won't have Hudler to prop up his ES points.

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10-04-2009, 12:00 PM
  #34
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i think our Fs don't look that bad on defense. it's really the defenders. and bertuzzi maybe. bertuzzi is less mobile and a worse skater than lilja. he moves as much as a stranded whale on the beach. and williams on ES didn't look much better.
but in generall all 6 D looked pretty bad IMO. lidstrom is a slow starter, we know that. but the rest plays as usual, very concerning. especially if you keep him mind how much salary our D makes.

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10-04-2009, 12:29 PM
  #35
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Cloutier is still available.. Do not fret.. There is still time..

Cloutier!! Come back !!!1 PLEEEEEEASE


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Old
10-04-2009, 01:03 PM
  #36
detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by Yemack View Post
Anyone ever thought maybe we need a new goalie coach?

or maybe a dedicated one for our prospects?
No. This is not the problem at all. Osgood is nearing 37 years old. He was once a good regular season goalie, and he has been a great playoff goalie on many occasions. Howard was not poorly developed, hes just not a strong goaltender. He doesn't have a lot of talent.

Hasek was good, until he was too old, and Cujo - although many Wings fans are loathe to admit it - probably had the best playoff performance of a Wings goaltender since the Sawchuk days with his Calgary series.

Should we fire Babcock because our skaters aren't playing well? After all, hes the coach of them...

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10-04-2009, 01:06 PM
  #37
ArGarBarGar
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
No. This is not the problem at all. Osgood is nearing 37 years old. He was once a good regular season goalie, and he has been a great playoff goalie on many occasions. Howard was not poorly developed, hes just not a strong goaltender. He doesn't have a lot of talent.

Hasek was good, until he was too old, and Cujo - although many Wings fans are loathe to admit it - probably had the best playoff performance of a Wings goaltender since the Sawchuk days with his Calgary series.

Should we fire Babcock because our skaters aren't playing well? After all, hes the coach of them...
I wouldn't consider four games a strong sample size of a playoff performance.

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Old
10-04-2009, 01:08 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwingsfan View Post
Come on... Its one game. At least give the guy a chance before you're ready send him out of town.. He was probably pretty nervous last night. This is the first time he has made the team out of camp and he probably wanted to prove he belongs here. Anyone would get nervous in a situation like that..

Let them talk. You wont get anywhere saying its just one game. Ppl on here love to go into panic mode over the tenders every other game.

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Old
10-04-2009, 01:37 PM
  #39
detredWINgs
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I wouldn't consider four games a strong sample size of a playoff performance.
You're right. Its a good thing Joseph played 8 1/2 playoff games that year.

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10-04-2009, 01:43 PM
  #40
Yemack
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Let them talk. You wont get anywhere saying its just one game. Ppl on here love to go into panic mode over the tenders every other game.
I think some of you are taking being skeptic as a mass panic.

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10-04-2009, 02:10 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Yemack View Post
Anyone ever thought maybe we need a new goalie coach?

or maybe a dedicated one for our prospects?
I do. Jim Bedard has not been very good overall. And this is not based on a couple of games, I called for the same thing this summer at Kukla's.

Howard has a leash. A very short one, but I'm still going to give him enough rope to hang himself. I am not jumping the gun, although I am not optimistic about Howard. I watched him play live the past two preseasons without much improvement.

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Old
10-04-2009, 02:21 PM
  #42
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i think our Fs don't look that bad on defense. it's really the defenders. and bertuzzi maybe. bertuzzi is less mobile and a worse skater than lilja. he moves as much as a stranded whale on the beach. and williams on ES didn't look much better.
but in generall all 6 D looked pretty bad IMO. lidstrom is a slow starter, we know that. but the rest plays as usual, very concerning. especially if you keep him mind how much salary our D makes.
Our forwards haven't been putting much pressure on the opposition, they get outworked on the boards -- COMPLETELY -- and some of them are taking those pretty perimeter shots. At best, the TEAM looks somewhat average.

Can't believe the kid goalie plays one game and the 'off with his head is out already'. Ozzie had 3 months to pull his head together, and Howard has had one game?

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Old
10-04-2009, 03:10 PM
  #43
zecke26
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Our forwards haven't been putting much pressure on the opposition, they get outworked on the boards -- COMPLETELY -- and some of them are taking those pretty perimeter shots. At best, the TEAM looks somewhat average.
i think they have no passion or interest in the game at all. they look like players only doing their job. you remember the times two seasons ago when we talked about the red machine? they played like robots. i think they still look the same sort of. there are not ideas or anything. all players do the same every shift. no matter how the game flow is. a lot of automatism. it looks like apathy with some players.
but i think the lines we saw are crap. williams looked like a stranger on the finnish line.

so i guess we will see some line shuffling.

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Can't believe the kid goalie plays one game and the 'off with his head is out already'. Ozzie had 3 months to pull his head together, and Howard has had one game?
nah...ozzie was ripped apart from the beginning last season too. a bad game is a bad game.
but remember how we were already cursed during the season and after all, ozzie still managed to get the team in the finals. maybe next spring howard leads the team to the finals.

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Old
10-04-2009, 04:05 PM
  #44
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Our forwards haven't been putting much pressure on the opposition, they get outworked on the boards -- COMPLETELY -- and some of them are taking those pretty perimeter shots. At best, the TEAM looks somewhat average.

Can't believe the kid goalie plays one game and the 'off with his head is out already'. Ozzie had 3 months to pull his head together, and Howard has had one game?
Ozzie was getting thrown to the wolves after his game too. I can't say Howard is or is not ready to be in the nhl on a nightly basis after just yesterday, but what I saw from him did not look good at all. His rebound control was awful, and led to the second goal being scored. And then the third and fourth goals...well nothing needs to be said about those. We can only hope that if he doesn't improve soon then something will be done about it.

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10-04-2009, 04:18 PM
  #45
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Howard looked bad i'll admit it but it was his 1st game of the season in ****ING SWEDEN! Let's give him a chance atleast til the end of the month or so. If were still looking bad then we should consider moving or releasing him.
Maybe try n snag Halak, just a thought

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Old
10-04-2009, 07:02 PM
  #46
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well if some say goaltending isn't that big of a problem... then whats next coaching? I'm sorry but the wings are stacked with talent whats the damn problem please explain thanks

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10-04-2009, 09:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Our forwards haven't been putting much pressure on the opposition, they get outworked on the boards -- COMPLETELY -- and some of them are taking those pretty perimeter shots. At best, the TEAM looks somewhat average.

Can't believe the kid goalie plays one game and the 'off with his head is out already'. Ozzie had 3 months to pull his head together, and Howard has had one game?
And yet, averaging more than 3 goals a game - something 28 teams in the NHL couldn't do last year - shouldn't be necessary. When we're calling out our forwards for not scoring 4,5, or 6 goals, somethings wrong.

Your goalie lets in weak goals, your team gets deflated. The opposition uses weak goals against you to take the lead, and they're going to try and shut you down.

The Wings took it to the Blues for 25 minutes, and the Blues score. The Wings sit back, and the Blues score. Whats the common denominator here?

At the end of the day, our forwards didn't play a perfect game, but to suggest that they're failing because they aren't getting into a run-and-gun match with the opposition is ridiculous.

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Old
10-05-2009, 01:17 AM
  #48
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I am worried an I'll admit it. If i have to eat my words later I'm fine with that and I hope I have to. Giving Howard a few months could be disastrous to our season.

It may have been one game, but since after his first year in Grand Rapids he has proven himself to be an incompetant goaltender. He has not had the greatest of teams to play in front of him but he was also playing at a level, where if he was to be our goaltender in the future, he had to perform. He has never proven himself as NHL caliber. He is no longer a kid. He is 25. If he hasn't developed yet, I don't want to keep waiting on him.

I'll bring up Calgary now. Kipper plays about 70-75 games a year if not more. The back-up in Calgary, Curtis Mcelhinney, has won 1 game while playing for the Flames in 2 seasons as a full-time back-up(19 appearances). The Flames though have the luxury of having a goaltender that plays that many games and still plays at a high level. In Detroit Ozzie is too old to be play night in and night out. If he's only good for about 40 to 45 games a year, Howard has to play the rest.

If Howard is given the remainder of games, there's no telling where we will be sitting in the standings. I hope I am eating my words later but I definetly do not see it coming.

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Old
10-05-2009, 05:53 AM
  #49
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I am worried an I'll admit it. If i have to eat my words later I'm fine with that and I hope I have to. Giving Howard a few months could be disastrous to our season.

It may have been one game, but since after his first year in Grand Rapids he has proven himself to be an incompetant goaltender. He has not had the greatest of teams to play in front of him but he was also playing at a level, where if he was to be our goaltender in the future, he had to perform. He has never proven himself as NHL caliber. He is no longer a kid. He is 25. If he hasn't developed yet, I don't want to keep waiting on him.

I'll bring up Calgary now. Kipper plays about 70-75 games a year if not more. The back-up in Calgary, Curtis Mcelhinney, has won 1 game while playing for the Flames in 2 seasons as a full-time back-up(19 appearances). The Flames though have the luxury of having a goaltender that plays that many games and still plays at a high level. In Detroit Ozzie is too old to be play night in and night out. If he's only good for about 40 to 45 games a year, Howard has to play the rest.

If Howard is given the remainder of games, there's no telling where we will be sitting in the standings. I hope I am eating my words later but I definetly do not see it coming.
It is just one game, but I think I'll join the group not believing Howard will ever develop into an NHL goalie.
We will wait and see, but I am afraid if Osgood is going to have a terrible regular season like he did last year and Howard is gong to suck, we might lose too many valuable points.
If Legace is available I would take him. He would take the league minimum and he would play great for us.

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Old
10-05-2009, 06:21 AM
  #50
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It is just one game, but I think I'll join the group not believing Howard will ever develop into an NHL goalie.
We will wait and see, but I am afraid if Osgood is going to have a terrible regular season like he did last year and Howard is gong to suck, we might lose too many valuable points.
If Legace is available I would take him. He would take the league minimum and he would play great for us.
Ill join the group too. Im not basing this on one poor NHL game; Im basing it on the fact that he NEVER improved his consistency in four seasons in the AHL. How is that suddenly going to change?

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