krajicek sucks. You would be making your team worse adding this chump. If Gainey does this deal he's a complete moron. I already think Gainey is a tool.
krajicek sucks. You would be making your team worse adding this chump. If Gainey does this deal he's a complete moron. I already think Gainey is a tool.
You think Gainey is a "tool?" What are you..12?
Krajicek definitely doesn't suck. He won't light the lamp for your team offensively, but there are certainly worse options out there.
why such a hate for Bergeron, do'nt get it.
dont believe people here saw him play more than a game
or two when playing against montreal.
the guy scored 14 goals last year and was +5,
how many players on the team can score 14 goals on defense?
why such a hate for Bergeron, do'nt get it.
dont believe people here saw him play more than a game
or two when playing against montreal.
the guy scored 14 goals last year and was +5,
how many players on the team can score 14 goals on defense?
you telling me you saw all of the games he played in minesota?
you must not be sleeping much?
he still scored 14 goals, he must have something to offer.
Even brisebois as bad as it was contributed to 93 playoffs and did some good things for montreal... not fair to only see the bad.
you telling me you saw all of the games he played in minesota?
you must not be sleeping much?
he still scored 14 goals, he must have something to offer.
Even brisebois as bad as it was contributed to 93 playoffs and did some good things for montreal... not fair to only see the bad.
No, I don't think anyone on this board has seen every game MAB has played.
The point is, those of us with center ice who watch Western Conference games have seen ENOUGH of MAB to form an opinion on him and not just base our opinion on games he has played against the Canadiens.
From what I've seen: He's got a big shot, but often misses the net. Bad vision, often makes boneheaded plays resulting in costly turnovers.
No, I don't think anyone on this board has seen every game MAB has played.
The point is, those of us with center ice who watch Western Conference games have seen ENOUGH of MAB to form an opinion on him and not just base our opinion on games he has played against the Canadiens.
From what I've seen: He's got a big shot, but often misses the net. Bad vision, often makes boneheaded plays resulting in costly turnovers.
ok who you rather have, two rookie defensemen that will take time to develop and will make mistakes (remember O'byrne) or try as a short-term solution a guy that can probably adjust easier into Martin's system?
Anyway if not him, you need someone now who's experienced and ready to take over,
if your argument is that Bergeron is shaky on defense.
ok who you rather have, two rookie defensemen that will take time to develop and will make mistakes (remember O'byrne) or try as a short-term solution a guy that can probably adjust easier into Martin's system?
Anyway if not him, you need someone now who's experienced and ready to take over,
if your argument is that Bergeron is shaky on defense.
Personally I would rather give Weber and Carle a shot. Weber last year, in limited action, showed he he was NHL caliber, not looking out of place on defense and contributing on offense, especially in the playoffs. I think he's close to being NHL ready and would like to see what he can do with a real opportunity.
Carle was one of the last cuts at camp, meaning, in the eyes of Martin & Co, he is close to being NHL ready. Wouldn't hurt to give him some games to prove his worth as well.
I would give each one 5-10 games as kind of a "try-out". If they're absolutely terrible and it's clear the team needs help, then you bring in MAB or a similar FA.
I'd like to personally thank you, C4KOMI, for coming on this thread and supporting me a little bit. People around here seem to think that Weber, who has played 3 NHL games, is a safer bet to be the shooter on the PP, than Bergeron, who's averaged about 15 goals a season, when he plays over 70 games.
P.S. As far as cap space goes, if Weber plays the whole year up here, he'll cost us 875000. If we sign Bergeron to around 1.3 million, we'll be paying about .5 million more. Big whoopee. Weber will get a valuable year under Guy Boucher in the AHL, and gain some much needed chemistry with Subban. It's time to see the big picture here.
He's pretty much a PP specialist. And I don't care if anyone says otherwise..he's horrible in his own zone.
Exactly...I had him in a keeper pool, I thought he was a decent choice because he puts up points so I took a higher interest in him than most normally would... I agree that he is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E in his own end. Also in the Edmonton cup run a few years ago, he was the guy racing back because he got caught out of position and hurt Roloson in game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals.
It went downhill after that in Edmonton so he got traded to the Islanders where they noticed how brutal he was in his own end after about 6 minutes. I read posts on the Islanders board where the announcer was saying that the only defenseman back was Bergeron and all of the Isles fans were saying that was the scariest thing in hockey that the could hear. He actually was in the doghouse so bad that he wasn't even playing much in long Island. He went to the Ducks and was pretty much a powerplay specialist and then went to the Uber tight Minny defense. He may have learned something there, but in a pressure situation he'll just revert back to his crappy, crappy defensive play.
Exactly...I had him in a keeper pool, I thought he was a decent choice because he puts up points so I took a higher interest in him than most normally would... I agree that he is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E in his own end. Also in the Edmonton cup run a few years ago, he was the guy racing back because he got caught out of position and hurt Roloson in game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals.
It went downhill after that in Edmonton so he got traded to the Islanders where they noticed how brutal he was in his own end after about 6 minutes. I read posts on the Islanders board where the announcer was saying that the only defenseman back was Bergeron and all of the Isles fans were saying that was the scariest thing in hockey that the could hear. He actually was in the doghouse so bad that he wasn't even playing much in long Island. He went to the Ducks and was pretty much a powerplay specialist and then went to the Uber tight Minny defense. He may have learned something there, but in a pressure situation he'll just revert back to his crappy, crappy defensive play.
THIS WOULD NOT BE A GOOD MOVE FOR THE HABS!
I'm sorry, but is anyone really asking him to be much more than PP specialist? Are people so blind to not notice how important the PP is to this team? Every game we will play in this year will probably be close. A PP goal will probably make the difference in many games. Imagine how many games we could have remained close in before the arrival of Schneider last year.
I'm sorry, but is anyone really asking him to be much more than PP specialist? Are people so blind to not notice how important the PP is to this team? Every game we will play in this year will probably be close. A PP goal will probably make the difference in many games. Imagine how many games we could have remained close in before the arrival of Schneider last year.
The question I have is why can't we give Weber a shot?
If I remember correctly, his 2 points in 3 or 4 games in the playoffs were on the PP.
Again, I say we give Weber 5-10 games with regular minutes on D and the PP and let him show us if he NHL ready or not.
If he absolutely fails, then you go to someone like MAB. I mean honestly, if we don't give Weber/Carle an opportunity now, when will we? When our defense is fully healthy? This is their opportunity, we have to at least give them a shot.
The question I have is why can't we give Weber a shot?
If I remember correctly, his 2 points in 3 or 4 games in the playoffs were on the PP.
Again, I say we give Weber 5-10 games with regular minutes on D and the PP and let him show us if he NHL ready or not.
If he absolutely fails, then you go to someone like MAB. I mean honestly, if we don't give Weber/Carle an opportunity now, when will we? When our defense is fully healthy? This is their opportunity, we have to at least give them a shot.
It's true, best case scenario is to save the money and give Weber a shot. I was just hoping to not have to rush him. I think with another season in the AHL, he will definitely be ready next year. I mean, he's only played one year down there, he might as well hone his skills and play big minutes, no? Also i dont think that he needs to worry about eventually having a spot on this team. The only guys i see being on this team long term are Markov, Gorges and maybe O'byrne. By the time Weber is 25-26, he'll have full-time minutes on this team. Patience and proper tutelage are the key.
The question I have is why can't we give Weber a shot?
If I remember correctly, his 2 points in 3 or 4 games in the playoffs were on the PP.
Again, I say we give Weber 5-10 games with regular minutes on D and the PP and let him show us if he NHL ready or not.
If he absolutely fails, then you go to someone like MAB. I mean honestly, if we don't give Weber/Carle an opportunity now, when will we? When our defense is fully healthy? This is their opportunity, we have to at least give them a shot.
There was an interview with Jacques Martin on english TV (CTV12?) with about a week to go in pre-season where he stated that Weber while bringing a strong offensive upside, has a LOT to work on in Hamilton from the defensive perspective before he can graduate to the show as a regular. Clearly Weber being brought up now is out of necessity, and not JM's preference.
It seems very short-sighted to say that Weber "deserves" the chance to be in the NHL just because he scored points in the AHL last season. So great - Weber puts up a few points, but his defensive liabilities (esp. 5 on 5) would possibly MORE than negate any gains...
It would also seem likely that an experienced D will be brought in to fill the regular #6 spot, while Weber goes back to Ham-bone to resume his program.
It's true, best case scenario is to save the money and give Weber a shot. I was just hoping to not have to rush him. I think with another season in the AHL, he will definitely be ready next year. I mean, he's only played one year down there, he might as well hone his skills and play big minutes, no? Also i dont think that he needs to worry about eventually having a spot on this team. The only guys i see being on this team long term are Markov, Gorges and maybe O'byrne. By the time Weber is 25-26, he'll have full-time minutes on this team. Patience and proper tutelage are the key.
Given our injuries, I think there's no question we need to get some kind of NHL player to help carry the load of Markov and O'Byrne being down, and I agree putting Weber in that role is very probably lose-lose, both for the short term play of the club and for his long-term development.
All that being said, I think it's only right that Weber get some games right now, and if he plays over his head than that gives the Habs a bit more breathing room to find a more veteran player. Depending who that player is, either Carle or Benoit or someone like Henry can spend time as a #7 while Weber goes back to Hamilton. I hope he's up for 5 games and maybe he can earn himself another 5. Then if there's no vet solution, give Carle the same kind of chance.
Given our injuries, I think there's no question we need to get some kind of NHL player to help carry the load of Markov and O'Byrne being down, and I agree putting Weber in that role is very probably lose-lose, both for the short term play of the club and for his long-term development.
All that being said, I think it's only right that Weber get some games right now, and if he plays over his head than that gives the Habs a bit more breathing room to find a more veteran player. Depending who that player is, either Carle or Benoit or someone like Henry can spend time as a #7 while Weber goes back to Hamilton. I hope he's up for 5 games and maybe he can earn himself another 5. Then if there's no vet solution, give Carle the same kind of chance.
Yeah, it seems that the proverbial "try-out" is going to happen, i just hope Weber doesn't mind being shipped back and forth from Hamilton to Montreal all year long. I still thinks it makes more sense to get a veteran in there now, so he can gel with the team and the new system. Either way, Gainey and Co. know way more than me so i assume they will make the right call. One thing i'd love to see is MaxPac sent down--i think he needs seasoning in the AHL.
Yeah, it seems that the proverbial "try-out" is going to happen, i just hope Weber doesn't mind being shipped back and forth from Hamilton to Montreal all year long. I still thinks it makes more sense to get a veteran in there now, so he can gel with the team and the new system. Either way, Gainey and Co. know way more than me so i assume they will make the right call. One thing i'd love to see is MaxPac sent down--i think he needs seasoning in the AHL.
I think we can all agree on that. Problem is, who do you put on the 2nd line? D'Agostini? I think D'Agostini would fit better with Gomez. That's if D'Agostini plays like he did when he first came up and crashes the net. Play D'Agostini with Gomez and Cammalleri and play Gionta with Plekanec and Kostitsyn? The way Gionta has been playing early would compliment Plekanec's game well and maybe their play would rub off on Invisibitsyn.
I think we can all agree on that. Problem is, who do you put on the 2nd line? D'Agostini? I think D'Agostini would fit better with Gomez. That's if D'Agostini plays like he did when he first came up and crashes the net. Play D'Agostini with Gomez and Cammalleri and play Gionta with Plekanec and Kostitsyn? The way Gionta has been playing early would compliment Plekanec's game well and maybe their play would rub off on Invisibitsyn.
Yeah Wasteofspacestyn is driving me crazy. I think D'ago plays more of a slow-paced, wait-and-see game that might fit better on that second line. Max is very north/south, and is better suited right now as a forechecker in the NHL. Seeing as though they want to make him into top 6 forward, Hamilton is the best place for him. This is, of course, exactly what they should have done latendresse, but no use playing the "we should have done this" game. I agree about the gionta/plex mix, but actually feel that where ever gionta plays he'll make things happen, and no matter who plays with Stitsy, he'll play the same. I think that Martin will be forced to bench him like what happened to Kovalev last year, to knock some sense into him. And i don't buy the concussion excuse either. He's delivered checks this season and in pre-season, he's not scared to get physical. There's just no continuity in his game. He'll do something right then stop working immediately after or get discouraged. He's playing with this mindset, it seems, that he has to replace Kovalev's heroics on the ice. Somehow he has to start believing in the "team" concept, and maybe these overtime, come from behind victories will help him see the light.
From what I've seen: He's got a big shot, but often misses the net. Bad vision, often makes boneheaded plays resulting in costly turnovers.
Wow, he had 140 shots on goal (just 4 off his career high), scoring on ten percent of them. If he misses the net a lot as you claim, he must have had TONS of opportunities to shoot, meaning he'd be exceptionally good at finding a shooting lane and getting that shot off and through traffic if he's able to get 140 on net and still miss a ton on top of that.
If we get MAB for anything more than league minimum, a 1-year deal and tell him he's playing in the stands or in Hamilton once Markov is back, I'm shooting myself.
Carle was one of the last cuts at camp, meaning, in the eyes of Martin & Co, he is close to being NHL ready.
Carle being one of the last cuts in camp does not mean that in the eyes of the coaching staff he is close to being NHL ready. It simply means that out of the bodies that were healthy, he was one of the guys the organization was going to keep up to fill out the rosters of the exhibition schedule.
Any coach worth his salt is going to give his veterans rest through the bloated exhibition schedule, and that means carrying extra bodies at every position until the exhbition schedule is ready.
Is Carle higher up on the depth chart? Yes. But that doesn't mean they staff think he's NHL ready or close to NHL ready. It just means he's closer - and healthier - then some of the other AHL options.
Wow, he had 140 shots on goal (just 4 off his career high), scoring on ten percent of them. If he misses the net a lot as you claim, he must have had TONS of opportunities to shoot, meaning he'd be exceptionally good at finding a shooting lane and getting that shot off and through traffic if he's able to get 140 on net and still miss a ton on top of that.
Based on what I've seen, yes, he does take a lot of shots at the net. And he does miss the often enough that it's noticeable.
Don't get me wrong though, he does have a great shot, and you're right when you say he is good at finding shooting lanes and getting his shot off. He's got a quick release for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
Carle being one of the last cuts in camp does not mean that in the eyes of the coaching staff he is close to being NHL ready. It simply means that out of the bodies that were healthy, he was one of the guys the organization was going to keep up to fill out the rosters of the exhibition schedule.
Any coach worth his salt is going to give his veterans rest through the bloated exhibition schedule, and that means carrying extra bodies at every position until the exhbition schedule is ready.
Is Carle higher up on the depth chart? Yes. But that doesn't mean they staff think he's NHL ready or close to NHL ready. It just means he's closer - and healthier - then some of the other AHL options.
Those are all valid points. I may have been wrong in my assumption that he was somewhat close to NHL ready. I'm not in the offices of Martin and Gainey, I'm not sure how they evaluate him.
If they really feel like he isn't even close to being NHL ready, then maybe the best option would be to bring in a veteran presence at the blueline.
I wouldn't be surprised if they bring up Henry before Carle. Give Carle more time in the AHL to develop and bring Henry up as the 7th dman, someone who does have some NHL experience.
Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-05-2009 at 06:54 PM.
Reason: Merge
I'm sorry, but is anyone really asking him to be much more than PP specialist? Are people so blind to not notice how important the PP is to this team? Every game we will play in this year will probably be close. A PP goal will probably make the difference in many games. Imagine how many games we could have remained close in before the arrival of Schneider last year.
There were a few occasions last year when he had his pocket picked winding up for the big shot. He has a slow release and this caused quite a few turnovers...Yes even on the powerplay. We need someone that can play and this guy ain't it.
Mattias Ohlund
Andrej Meszaros
Victor Hedman*
Paul Ranger
Kurtis Foster
Matt Walker
Matt Smaby
Lukas Krajicek
David Hale
Lukas Krajicek seems to fit the bill. Around $1million, some offensive abilities, experienced.
Paul Ranger would be be nice. Foster too.
Krajicek is terrible. Saw him play in Vancouver while he was with the Canucks and a wet noodle is not as soft as he is. The one off that list that might be a decent pick would be Meszaros, very much underrated.
I tell you though, we're in deep, deep crap if the choices are the names that we've heard lately: Bergeron, Krajicek, Brisebois, Chelios, Dandenault...
I'd much rather give a chance to one of our 3 young rookies. At least the mistakes would be justifiable!
There were a few occasions last year when he had his pocket picked winding up for the big shot. He has a slow release and this caused quite a few turnovers...Yes even on the powerplay. We need someone that can play and this guy ain't it.
Wow, nitpick much? Who hasn't gotten their pocket picked on the PP? Fine, we'll bring back Brisebois instead, just for you...
