HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Toskala vs The Monster

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-05-2009, 11:42 AM
  #101
napoleon in rags
Don't follow leaders
 
napoleon in rags's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
No kidding Eazy, most of these comments are assinine. Christ there were two periods left, I'm sure he was confident that the team could turn it around, not to mention he had the intermission to throw his hissy fit in the dressing room, although I doubt that happened.

This board could really use an adult section.
It's absolute stupidity to imagine that one can judge someone's feelings based on how he looks. I don't see how throwing a public tantrum, as some posters seem to think he should, will help the situation. This is a replay of the Raycroft situation, where legions of armchair psychologists were able to interpret Raycroft's emotional state from simply observing him on TV

Someone mentioned that Toskala (note the spelling) knows full well that he's at the end of his rope. No kidding: He sees his career going down the gurgler, you can be sure of that.

I feel sorry for him, but that doesn't withstand my opinion of him as a sub par goalie. Pro sports is a tough gig.

napoleon in rags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 11:45 AM
  #102
MrLegend28*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,580
vCash: 500
the thing i worry about is when the goaltending coach isn't impressed and always fixing stuff, what his future holds.

i liked Vesa before he came to Toronto, but I guess he didn't live to the hype

MrLegend28* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 11:57 AM
  #103
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 28,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
There was a marginal difference in what was given up, for a massive, massive difference in what each team was getting.
Most would say a 4 slot improvement in a far superior draft is more than just marginal.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:13 PM
  #104
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Replace the name "Thomas Vokoun" with "Marc Savard", and replace the name "Vesa Toskala" with "Brendan Morrison", and you'll get a better idea of the difference in the returns for those two trades.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:22 PM
  #105
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 28,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Replace the name "Thomas Vokoun" with "Marc Savard", and replace the name "Vesa Toskala" with "Brendan Morrison", and you'll get a better idea of the difference in the returns for those two trades.
That doesn't really change the fact that the price for the two were different. I think Vokoun is a much better goalie, but he came at a higher price. I think he was worth it, but it doesn't change the fact it's still a higher price.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:26 PM
  #106
Poggemon Destiny*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch Imlach View Post
Lets sum up these boards after 2 of 82 games, or 2.5% of the season is over;

1) Toskala needs to be traded
2) Schenn needs to go to the minors
3) Beauchemin is a bust
4) Komisarek is a liability
5) Exelby is a wasted roster spot


Are you people high? Did I miss the opium being passed around? What single thing in life can you make judgment on when its only 2.5% of the ****ing way started?!

Honestly, this place is a cesspool right now.

You're missing the point. On points 2-5 you have a case but regarding Toskalaugh...he sucked last year as well...sucked crap..he sucked hard in pre-season and he sucks now. So the 2.5% does not apply to him. How much time do you give the guy?

Poggemon Destiny* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:31 PM
  #107
satyr9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 255
vCash: 500
Whether you like him as a goalie or not you better hope he isn't "toast." Jonas may be able to be a quality starting goalie in his rookie year, although that is far from being proven at this point, but the Leafs still need Toskala pretty much any way you go. Are people really ready to hand Jonas a 60+ game workload? I have no idea what the best way to work on Vesa is, whether it's giving him some sits now and working out kinks, or trying to play him into confidence; those are decisions for professional coaches who are hopefully more able to identify what the problem is and the best way to fix it. Any way you look at it, you still need him in the net for at least 25 games, or MacDonald or someone still UFA out there. It's seems pretty unlikely you're going to just walk into a playoff squad calibre goalie going that route, so Leafs fans, instead of just constantly blasting the guy, better start hoping the coaches can get to him and get his performance up a bit.

In defense of his detractors I do think the track record of problems is longer than two games, so I get the concern, but instead of just calling for his demise, IMO people should be worrying about how to get him on track, 'cause I don't see a more viable alternative readily available. In spite of that, I think you have to wait until you see him really crap the bed with a decent defensive game in front of him for 60 minutes. Yes, he absolutely could've performed better to start this year, but IMO it's not all on him yet. Too many defensive lapses and crossed wires so far. Personally, I think going with Jonas on Tuesday makes sense, 'cause if Toskala has another consecutive bad outing, you run the risk of losing any chance he can perform as a Leaf. I just think it's very dangerous to trot him back out there one more time, unless they really see a change in the last couple practices, both from Vesa and the defense figuring out how to play together better. I don't think you will mess up Jonas too much if he has a poor game on Tuesday, so I'd limit the liability and let him have a shot at a full 60 minutes.

Sorry if I rambled a little too long. xD

satyr9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:32 PM
  #108
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedBlueAndWhite View Post
wow give a month r u ****in serious nooo way. Do you wanna start the season 0-12-1 ...When did he ever single-handedly win us a game I rarely recalled that...We've all been cutting this guy enough slack enough already. I still cant ****ing believe how many people on this board still believes in this guy its pathetic. HE IS NOT A BONIFIED NUMBER ONE GOALIE.
And Gustavsson is? Settle down there slugger; despite what some think, the sky is not falling. It is, 2 games into the season. You are incorrect in your statement with Allaire, in an interview about a week ago, he talked about "butterfly style" goaltending is just one of the things he teaches his pupils. Nice try though.

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:34 PM
  #109
Poggemon Destiny*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Why all this talk about only Jonas...what about Joey Mac?? He's more than capable.

Poggemon Destiny* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:34 PM
  #110
ACC1224
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 32,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny View Post
You're missing the point. On points 2-5 you have a case but regarding Toskalaugh...he sucked last year as well...sucked crap..he sucked hard in pre-season and he sucks now. So the 2.5% does not apply to him. How much time do you give the guy?
The real question is, do you believe in Burke/Wilson?
I do, so to answer that you give him as much time as they see fit.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:36 PM
  #111
stoney
Registered User
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,554
vCash: 500
It is a sad, sad day when a Damian Cox article is being thrown around as gospel in here.

And I prefer Tosalad to Toskalol.

stoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:54 PM
  #112
IBleedBlueAndWhite*
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 79
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
And Gustavsson is? Settle down there slugger; despite what some think, the sky is not falling. It is, 2 games into the season. You are incorrect in your statement with Allaire, in an interview about a week ago, he talked about "butterfly style" goaltending is just one of the things he teaches his pupils. Nice try though.

I listened to that interview as well. We all know he isnt a number 1 goalie...hey slugger try 2+ season not 2 games. Get your facts straight.. Name me games where he won for us? I cant even go past 5.

IBleedBlueAndWhite* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:55 PM
  #113
Lexicon
Registered User
 
Lexicon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: No clue
Country: United States
Posts: 8,202
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by leafs123 View Post
this, thank you
Join Date: Jan 2009...

How can you agree that posting declines each season?

Lexicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:55 PM
  #114
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 64,854
vCash: 500
Wilson defends Toskala and takes shot at the Leafs defense core in the process of the blame game.

Quote:
Toronto Maple Leafs coach Ron Wilson pulled Vesa Toskala out from under the proverbial bus on Monday, but was not about to reveal if the goaltender will start on Tuesday night.

Wilson pointed out that the criticism levied towards Toskala after he allowed three goals on eight shots in Washington is unfair, citing that the Leafs defence did very little to help out their goaltender in the 6-4 loss.

"I think its grossly unfair. It only seems to happen (in Toronto)," Wilson said after Monday's skate. "When a guy struggles a little bit he doesn't have to try and fix himself under, it's not a microscope it's an electron microscope and it's awful hard to feel good about yourself if you're always being questioned."

"The red light goes on every time there's a mistake and we've got some defencemen who played like peewee hockey players but they're not under the microscope the way our goaltending is," Wilson added.

Wilson did not name which of the two will get the starting nod against Ottawa at the Air Canada Centre on Tuesday night.

Full Story : http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/...ders_starting/

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:02 PM
  #115
Lexicon
Registered User
 
Lexicon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: No clue
Country: United States
Posts: 8,202
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Wilson defends Toskala and takes shot at the Leafs defense core in the process of the blame game.
Wilson has a point. I mean Komisarek has played terrible, and seems he is just trying to take stupid penalties. Beauchemin looks like he hasn't adjusted yet while Schenn looks like he never played in the NHL before. Exelby, well anyone who knows hockey knew what to expect from him. Ian White hasn't been terrible, but has made some mistakes such as skating in front of the goalie with the puck which led to a turnover in front of the net (Canadiens game).

Tomas Kaberle has been great though.

Honestly, I think give Gustavsson a shot and see what happens. Wilson is right, I mean Toskala saves a shot and people automatically laugh making remarks that they thought he wouldn't save it. Even if Toskala does something good, he is criticized.

I forget who said it (PunchImlach?) but it's ridiculous the amount of threads that have been made lately. Two games (2.5%) into the year, and yet apparently are season is done.

I'll just keep on watching, cheering on the blue and white.

Lexicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:06 PM
  #116
stoney
Registered User
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
I would definately not agree with that, unless you are counting this year as a season already even though its only been 2 games. 2 years ago Toskala single-handedly won us many games. Even last year before his injury he was good. It's 2 games into the year...cut the guy some slack...

Give him a month, then panick.
Despite what most of you might think now, this is true. Raycroft won us games, but never really stole any. Toskala won us more than a couple of games that season that we simply didn't deserve.

I am willing to let Toskala play and actually lose a game himself before we go crazy here. I mean this is really getting out of hand for 2 losses. It isn't the same thing all over again. It is 2 games, with maybe a great goalie waiting (and right now it is still a maybe), but definitely Joey Mac ready to go if we need him.

I don't even think I can post anymore on this until I see a game where Toskala actually plays poorly. Not when he is subject to shoddy defense and is made to be the scape-goat by idiots like Damian Cox.

stoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:06 PM
  #117
Roo
Registered User
 
Roo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,249
vCash: 500
Of course Wilson has a point. The leafs played like crap in front of both Toskala and Gustavsson. Both gave up 3 goals, Gusto is a hero, Toskala garbage.

While I feel like most in that I think we should give the reigns to Jonas to see what he can do, I do feel that Toskala is getting the majority of the blame when its really our team that has been crap in front of both of them. Yes, you need to make a big save here and there, but you also need to play well in front of your goalie.

I would reserve judgement on goaltenders until we actually play a game and resemble a team.

Roo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:11 PM
  #118
LastCupUpNorth
Registered User
 
LastCupUpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
You know what I say to the people ripping on others who are calling Vesa out for being calm on the bench...

Same **** goes for any other sport.


When Rios was acting like it was just another day at the office when he was playing garbage, it roasts fans in a way that is just unimaginable.

These athletes are getting paid millions, to play a sport they enjoy playing. It's not some street hockey scrimmage, this is the f-ing NHL. Show some emotion, show some intensity!

Shooters won't fear the goalie they know is just going to shrug and say "oh well" when they score on him. They'll eat him for breakfast and **** him for dinner.

That's why goalies like Luongo, Kipper, Brodeur, and Henrik are so successful. They have a psychological angle to their games and that's what puts them apart from the lesser goalies.


When you're a shooter flying in on the breakaway against Patrick Roy, are you really thinking about a fancy way to deke him out or are you just ******** your pants about going on a breakaway against Patrick Roy?

There are very few elite shooters that have no fear.

Unfortunately, Vesa isn't that intimidating, big or any good for that matter.


He's got a big game in him, you saw it in SJ. But he also had the forwards and the big, intimidating goaltender ahead of him in Nabby.

In Toronto, he has the #1 chair to himself, and a division of fierce rivals. Unfortunately, he can't afford to sit on his laurels like he could in SJ.

LastCupUpNorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:12 PM
  #119
dissociater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,096
vCash: 500
I think a lot more people would be ready and willing to give toskala a lot more rope to play with if we hadn't have trade our first picks for the next two years for kessel. That trade means we have no consolation prize at the end of the season if we blow it.

We can afford to let Toskala have a 20 game try out if he's not cutting it. I think you have to just give them both play a game and whoever plays better starts. If one starts winning games, let them ride it until they show they can't handle it. It might sound harsh, but I'd rather that then have Boston get a lottery pick or two.

dissociater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:14 PM
  #120
IBleedBlueAndWhite*
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 79
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneymcstone View Post

I am willing to let Toskala play and actually lose a game himself before we go crazy here. I mean this is really getting out of hand for 2 losses. It isn't the same thing all over again. It is 2 games, with maybe a great goalie waiting (and right now it is still a maybe), but definitely Joey Mac ready to go if we need him.
This is a dumb thing to say why would u want to start the season on a sour note like this, start the season like say 3-9-1 cuz i think they have about this many games in October. Wouldnt rather start the season well get a good start rather than an early hole?..this is stupid thinking in my opnion. I would much rather get a good start then continue rolling from there instead of having to climb mount Everest like they always tend to do.

IBleedBlueAndWhite* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:14 PM
  #121
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Wilson defends Toskala and takes shot at the Leafs defense core in the process of the blame game.
yup.

He defends him so strongly that he'll still put the rookie Gusto in anyways.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:15 PM
  #122
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedBlueAndWhite View Post
I listened to that interview as well. We all know he isnt a number 1 goalie...hey slugger try 2+ season not 2 games. Get your facts straight.. Name me games where he won for us? I cant even go past 5.

You listened to the same interview that I did, where Allaire talks about teaching several aspects of goaltending (not just the butterfly) and yet you post this.

Toskala didn't look good in camp and is now being coaxed and prodded daily by a goaltending coach, Francois Allaire, who preaches a style that Toskala doesn't play.

Sounds like you may want to stick with facts (straight from Allaire) as apposed to making things up to support your agenda. Toskala was okay in his first year here; who exactly consists of the "we all know" group you menioned above?

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:16 PM
  #123
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny View Post
Why all this talk about only Jonas...what about Joey Mac?? He's more than capable.
exactly.

People don't realize exactly what level of goaltending Toskala gives us.

Not only could we rely on Mac for comparable goaltending, but there's a whole bunch of guys we could pick up on waivers to give us comparable goaltending as well.

Toskala is simply not important to this team. He's never been a great goalie, and now he's nowhere close to even his mediocre best.

There's plenty of goalies who could give us comparable or better goaltending.

There's no sense in waiting on him and hoping that somehow at age 32 he'll suddenly become better than he's ever been before.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:19 PM
  #124
ACC1224
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 32,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
exactly.

People don't realize exactly what level of goaltending Toskala gives us.

Not only could we rely on Mac for comparable goaltending, but there's a whole bunch of guys we could pick up on waivers to give us comparable goaltending as well.

Toskala is simply not important to this team. He's never been a great goalie, and now he's nowhere close to even his mediocre best.

There's plenty of goalies who could give us comparable or better goaltending.

There's no sense in waiting on him and hoping that somehow at age 32 he'll suddenly become better than he's ever been before.
Have you lost all faith in Burke and Wilson?

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:21 PM
  #125
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
No, I have complete faith in them.

There's a reason why Burkie went "harder after Gusto than he's ever gone after anyone", and why he added Joey Mac who played 50 games last year as a legit NHL goalie.

There's a reason why Wilson is refusing to call Toskala the unquestioned #1 goalie today, just two games into the season.

they know.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.