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Old
04-07-2004, 08:35 PM
  #1
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The New York Rangers

Hey i just thought of something.

Sather is looking to solidify his organization through thre draft and not by retarded off season signings anymore. If this is the case then i assume they would want a 2 first rounders other than one. If the Oilers trade both 1st rounders + Jani Rita and somethign else for 6th overall and Fedor Tjutin we might actually have a shot at Schremph or maybe even Barker. NYR would be the best team to sucker to move up in the draft.


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04-07-2004, 08:50 PM
  #2
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Actually, I think the Rangers are going to make a bid for the #1 pick. They acquired so many draft picks/prospects and young players at the deadline that they have the fodder to possibly entice Washington.

Just my thought.

Florida or Atlanta might be a better trading partner for Edmonton (they tried both in the last couple of years).

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04-07-2004, 09:38 PM
  #3
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The Rangers are looking to stock their prospect pool with high tier prospects, not to dilute it.

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04-07-2004, 09:44 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by windowlicker
Yeah what he said.
Yeah....ok. that must be why they drafted Fardeleau and Jessiman the past two years ?


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04-07-2004, 09:52 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
Yeah....ok. that must be why they drafted Fardeleau and Jessiman the past two years ?
Jessiman is a frigging monster... but he can also play.

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04-07-2004, 09:54 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Actually, I think the Rangers are going to make a bid for the #1 pick. They acquired so many draft picks/prospects and young players at the deadline that they have the fodder to possibly entice Washington.

Just my thought.

Florida or Atlanta might be a better trading partner for Edmonton (they tried both in the last couple of years).
I can't see any way WSH would move the #1 overall, or for that matter PIT the #2 overall.

Agreed on the Rangers though Guy, I don't see the Rangers moving down, for what purpose? they have tons of depth, they need top endtalent and they should get pretty decent one at #6

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04-07-2004, 10:06 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
Yeah....ok. that must be why they drafted Fardeleau and Jessiman the past two years ?
Why would you edit someone elses quote?

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04-07-2004, 10:08 PM
  #8
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I think it's preety funny don't you?

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04-07-2004, 10:09 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
I think it's preety funny don't you?
For a 12 year old it is. I get it. Nevermind.

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04-07-2004, 11:53 PM
  #10
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Stupid arguments like this is why some people are slowly leaving the best board on the net to go elsewhere...Lets cut the crap and talk some legit hockey...

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Old
04-08-2004, 02:02 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
I think it's preety funny don't you?

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Old
04-08-2004, 02:33 AM
  #12
Guy Flaming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I can't see any way WSH would move the #1 overall, or for that matter PIT the #2 overall.
I agree speeds, I don't think they would be willing to do it either but I'm sure they'll get plenty of offers and I wouldn't be surprised if NYR were one team leading the charge for Ovechkin.

Considering the offers that Quebec had for Lindros back in the day, both the Flyers and the Rangers were willing to pay through the arse for Eric. It's almost unbelievable to see the list of names both teams were willing to part with for #88, who's to say Washington might get an equally ridiculous offer from a team or two this time around?

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04-08-2004, 03:18 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
I agree speeds, I don't think they would be willing to do it either but I'm sure they'll get plenty of offers and I wouldn't be surprised if NYR were one team leading the charge for Ovechkin.

Considering the offers that Quebec had for Lindros back in the day, both the Flyers and the Rangers were willing to pay through the arse for Eric. It's almost unbelievable to see the list of names both teams were willing to part with for #88, who's to say Washington might get an equally ridiculous offer from a team or two this time around?
It wouldn't shock me if they were offered the package, but whether or not they accept it is the issue. Lindros had to be traded. Ovechkin can be kept. Its not like Ovechkin has come out and said he won't play for Washington or anything like that. I honestly can't see that pick being moved.

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Old
04-08-2004, 03:47 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
I agree speeds, I don't think they would be willing to do it either but I'm sure they'll get plenty of offers and I wouldn't be surprised if NYR were one team leading the charge for Ovechkin.

Considering the offers that Quebec had for Lindros back in the day, both the Flyers and the Rangers were willing to pay through the arse for Eric. It's almost unbelievable to see the list of names both teams were willing to part with for #88, who's to say Washington might get an equally ridiculous offer from a team or two this time around?
ATL was apparently offered #7, #25, garon, and bulis??? for kovalchuk, obviously said no. It would likely take more than that for Ovechkin, especiallly considering the lockout and the depth of WSH's prospect base. All they need is quality, which they would receive in Ovechkin.

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Old
04-08-2004, 04:28 AM
  #15
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I agree with both of you. I don't think washington will make a deal to move the pick. I'm just saying that I think they'll be tempted to with numerous offers, some that might be ridiculous overpays.

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Old
04-08-2004, 08:49 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
Hey i just thought of something.

Sather is looking to solidify his organization through thre draft and not by retarded off season signings anymore. If this is the case then i assume they would want a 2 first rounders other than one.
That's a really good point. Sather would likely much rather have 2 first rounders rather than one.

Too bad he didn't think of this at the deadline. He likely could have moved Brian Leetch for a 1st, a 2nd next year, Jarko Immonen, and Maxim Kondratiev. You should have mentioned it to him at the time. I bet he'd have done it and then he'd have his two 1st round picks right now.

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Old
04-08-2004, 09:40 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outKast
Hey i just thought of something.

Sather is looking to solidify his organization through thre draft and not by retarded off season signings anymore.
I will believe this when I see it.

The best thing that could have happened to Sather long term is the Rangers being out of the playoffs as early as they were becasue it afforded him the chance to off load his overpriced talent.

But consider this, last year his payroll was over 76 mil (not including bonuses) and right now he is at 63.8 including Richter, Messier and Bure. Subtract those three and he is down to 46.5 mil in payroll.

He shaved 30 mil off his payroll on the eve of a new CBA. He also aquired a number of picks to "build for the future" and has a lot of plumber type players on the team right now.

As it sits right now, his cupboard is bare as far as prospects go and any draft picks from this year are a couple years away at least. I would expect two key things from a new CBA as far as Sather goes (perhaps among others), a soft cap with some kind of luxury tax and a decent drop in salaries among UFA's due to a possible glut on the market.

In my opinion, Sather's plan is not to wait three years by building through the draft but instead he is going to;

1) use his established plumbers as trading chips to teams that may need to off load some higher priced talent - of any team NY will be the most likely to spend above the cap and can afford a luxury tax so they will likely be taking on salary again

2) will dip back into the UFA market but will actually save money because the UFA's won't likely command the same prices they have in the last few years.

He may very well end up with exactly the same kind of team he has built over the last couple years, only at less money and with more kids in his stable for a few years down the road.

Then, just like we have seen with guys like Lundmark, if Sather gets caught up in the cycle again his draft picks will simply be pawns in future moves because there won't be room on the roster for them.

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Old
04-08-2004, 10:05 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
ATL was apparently offered #7, #25, garon, and bulis??? for kovalchuk, obviously said no. It would likely take more than that for Ovechkin, especiallly considering the lockout and the depth of WSH's prospect base. All they need is quality, which they would receive in Ovechkin.
I heard that the Habs offered Tho and their first pick

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Old
04-08-2004, 01:22 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle
That's a really good point. Sather would likely much rather have 2 first rounders rather than one.

Too bad he didn't think of this at the deadline. He likely could have moved Brian Leetch for a 1st, a 2nd next year, Jarko Immonen, and Maxim Kondratiev. You should have mentioned it to him at the time. I bet he'd have done it and then he'd have his two 1st round picks right now.

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Old
04-08-2004, 02:48 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
1) use his established plumbers as trading chips to teams that may need to off load some higher priced talent - of any team NY will be the most likely to spend above the cap and can afford a luxury tax so they will likely be taking on salary again

2) will dip back into the UFA market but will actually save money because the UFA's won't likely command the same prices they have in the last few years.
I've actually thought this same logic. One thing you missed on was that Lindros also comes off the books this year, so that's another 10 million (I know about his base salary and the bonusses he gets; bottom line is if he's playing the Rags aren't paying 10million, and if he isn't, they aren't paying 3million).

A lot of guys are going to be out there and I can also see Sather being a thrifty shopper. He's not going to go for big UFA's (unless someone really intriguing is out there) but instead go for the cheap ones (ie. what Ken Klee was for the Leafs this year). He'll build around what he has, but with the foresight to not sign players to positions he can already fill - young kids will get a kick at the can on this team.

I can also see him going to teams looking to get out of albatross contracts and picking them up. One scenario that I like for the Rangers is they go to a team like Dallas, desperate to get out of Turgeon's contract, and they agree to pick it up (either in a trade or on waivers) giving up someone for Turgeon. The catch is that Dallas ends up giving up someone pretty good, maybe a couple of Steve Otts or even a Brendan Morrow. Now Sather has the character guy(s) he needs to build around and if he can get some production out of Turgeon, great. If not, buy him out or play him n the minors, namely the ECHL.

Obviously I'm not rumoring here but giving an example of what could happen in a similar situation with someone else.

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Old
04-08-2004, 02:57 PM
  #21
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my understanding is that pittsburgh was very upset they lost the rights to Ovenchicken because he was going to be a big part of their marketing plan. I have repeatedly heard that the oilers think Malkin is just as highly rated as O.C.

Maybe Malkin is the guy they target.

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Old
04-08-2004, 03:49 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanmoreMike
I've actually thought this same logic. One thing you missed on was that Lindros also comes off the books this year, so that's another 10 million (I know about his base salary and the bonusses he gets; bottom line is if he's playing the Rags aren't paying 10million, and if he isn't, they aren't paying 3million).

A lot of guys are going to be out there and I can also see Sather being a thrifty shopper. He's not going to go for big UFA's (unless someone really intriguing is out there) but instead go for the cheap ones (ie. what Ken Klee was for the Leafs this year). He'll build around what he has, but with the foresight to not sign players to positions he can already fill - young kids will get a kick at the can on this team.

I can also see him going to teams looking to get out of albatross contracts and picking them up. One scenario that I like for the Rangers is they go to a team like Dallas, desperate to get out of Turgeon's contract, and they agree to pick it up (either in a trade or on waivers) giving up someone for Turgeon. The catch is that Dallas ends up giving up someone pretty good, maybe a couple of Steve Otts or even a Brendan Morrow. Now Sather has the character guy(s) he needs to build around and if he can get some production out of Turgeon, great. If not, buy him out or play him n the minors, namely the ECHL.

Obviously I'm not rumoring here but giving an example of what could happen in a similar situation with someone else.

So they'll take Turgeon from Dallas, but only if the Stars also give them a GOOD player? In exchange for...anything?

I dunno - at this point I'll believe Sather to be a 'smart shopper' when I see it. He's had a number of years to be one and he hasn't shown much of it in New York. I guess we'll see, but I'm not holding out much hope for it to change substantially.

Bart

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Old
04-08-2004, 05:35 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
my understanding is that pittsburgh was very upset they lost the rights to Ovenchicken because he was going to be a big part of their marketing plan. I have repeatedly heard that the oilers think Malkin is just as highly rated as O.C.

Maybe Malkin is the guy they target.
I could see them looking for Malkin as well, but this seems like a tough year to move up that high. But, to move up at all won't really be easy:

(1) WSH - why would they move down? rebuilding team, have the money for ovechkin, already have good prospect depth, need the superstar, will potentially get one. Unless someone absolutely blows them away they will keep this pick, one would imagine

(2) PIT - same story as WSH, except they don't have a ton of money. IF money problems are tha bad then MAYBE they will trade the pick for good young depth. EDM could be a player in that case. Personally, I think PIT will just go ahead and draft whoever they see at #2, probably Malkin from what I've read

(3) CHI - hmm, I could maybe see them trading this away since they won't get the cornerstone they could have used in Ovechkin. But if they trade this pick, I would guess they'd only trade down 5 spots at most to perhaps get someone else they like a bit lower? They'll likely just pick here as well though

(4) CLB - rebuilding team, they'll probably pick here as well

(5) PHX - see CLB

(6) NYR - I could see them trying to swap with CHI, they have extra picks to move, really don't see them moving down though

(7) FLA - I've seen them mentioned before, I'm not sure what bait EDM would have (I've seen Smith mentioned) but EDM might well want to jump up to #7

(8) CAR - probably keep

(9) ANA - probably keep

(10) ATL - potential trade partner, but for whom. If Schwartz slips to here, someone could trade up to land him, especially to get ahead of LA. that someone coudl be EDM, who knows?

(11) LA - probably keep

(12) MIN - probably keep

(13) BUF- probably keep

(14) EDM - well, who knows?

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Old
04-08-2004, 06:17 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
So they'll take Turgeon from Dallas, but only if the Stars also give them a GOOD player? In exchange for...anything?

I dunno - at this point I'll believe Sather to be a 'smart shopper' when I see it. He's had a number of years to be one and he hasn't shown much of it in New York. I guess we'll see, but I'm not holding out much hope for it to change substantially.

Bart
I'll reiterate, this isn't a rumor or anything.

The Rangers would give up someone or something that the Stars could use, but ultimately it gives them the flexability to get/keep those they really need. Consider the case of last year and if an offer had been made to take Turgeon's contract in exchange for Morrow. The Stars would have been losing someone good (ie. Morrow) and losing someone bad (ie. Turgeon) but they'd have had the flexability to sign someone important (ie. Hatcher). So then the trade becomes a question of whether its better keeping Hatcher or Morrow, while Turgoen remains unimportant in this equation.

Sather might not pull this, maybe only I would. Maybe this is why either my genius is going to waste or why I don't have an NHL job at the moment.

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Old
04-08-2004, 06:54 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
(7) FLA - I've seen them mentioned before, I'm not sure what bait EDM would have (I've seen Smith mentioned) but EDM might well want to jump up to #7

(10) ATL - potential trade partner, but for whom. If Schwartz slips to here, someone could trade up to land him, especially to get ahead of LA. that someone coudl be EDM, who knows?
Sure speeds I can see us dealing with Florida at #7 to get a forward the scouts really like say Tukonen or Schremp if they slip just a bit. Not sure we need to make the small jump to deal with Atlanta at #10 unless one of these 2 guys are still there at this slot. Schwartz may indeed slip to #10 but I dont know if I trade up to get him because at least one of Schwartz and Montoya will very likely still be there at #14. Both guys are players IMO.

The best player available at #14 may very well be a goalie and we should be prepared to pick one there. If you look at previous #14 picks they are mostly decent 2nd or 3rd liners and #3-4 dmen. We have LOTS of those already. So intelligently swinging for the fence in this draft may mean drafting a netminder and Im all for that because Im really not all that excited about any of the forwards or dmen available after #5 or so.

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