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I still hope for a Rangers semi-fire sale

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Old
10-06-2009, 03:31 AM
  #1
Beacon
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I still hope for a Rangers semi-fire sale

Let me use this moment when everyone is happy to call for a mini fire sale. I just don't want people to think that I am responding to a loss if I post it when the team is down.

I really wish that Sather traded Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal and Rosie at the trading deadline for a second rounder each. Based on what he did in 2004, it is not unreasonable.

The more excited I get about our youth, the more I wish we could actually add enough to it to make the team truly Stanley Cup quality in a few years. Plus, when the present crop matures and gets "adult" contract, we'll need cheap rookies.

If we have 6 picks in the first two rounds in 2010, it would be big for the franchise. Last time in 2004, we got at at least 2 players (Dubinsky and Korpikoski) plus another is on the way (Byers), as well as a 4th rounder in Callahan.

If we could pull off another three guys like Dubi, Cally and Korps, it would be excellent for the franchise. However, given the depth that already exists in the system, Slats would be able to go for high-risk, high-return guys like Savard and Dube. Hopefully, he'd pull out at least one superstar out of the 6 picks in the first two rounds or one of our later picks.

Oh well, I know it won't happen, but that's what I want. Ultimately, dealing away these 4 guys will guys will be better for the franchise than playing 5-6 more playoff games.

Again, I know it won't happen, but does anything think it might be a good idea towards the end of the season (obviously not now)?

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10-06-2009, 03:40 AM
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D713B
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Isn't this supposed to be one of the weakest draft classes in a long time?

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10-06-2009, 03:46 AM
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Hate saying it, but couldn't agree more.

I do however, love Higgins and want him locked up. Why try to draft another Callahan when we have one already?

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10-06-2009, 03:46 AM
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I think it's a tad bit too early to make a proposition like this, but I see where you're coming from.

I really only disagree with Prospal. For what he's being paid vs. what he can provide, it's an absolute must-keep-him situation. Seriously. He enjoys playing under Torts. He's played decently so far. The guy loves to score and definitely knows how to dish the puck out to people. He's the type of person I'd like to see around for another 2-3 years assuming he'd be getting paid around the same amount as now.

The rest, aside from Rozi, will have to undergo the normal "82 game tryout" in front of the Ranger fan base. Higgins has grit and can surely chip in 20 in a good season, but can definitely be shadowed by Cally. Getting a second rounder from him or better could have an upside.
Kotalik on the other hand, has one hell of a shot on a powerplay that's now showing that it can actually shoot and score for the first time in many years. Aside from MDZ and Gilroy, I think Kotalik should not be replaced by a second rounder with as much as he brings to the plate for us. But, contradicting myself, it's three games in and he could turn out to be a complete and utter waste 40 games from now, who knows.

Either way, I believe expending a vet or two, in the right situation, to get back a few second round draft picks or even higher, isn't a terrible idea at all; just really depends on who and what the draft is like. Our history of drafting, up until recently, is almost taboo in the plethora of Ranger's jargon.

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10-06-2009, 03:47 AM
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Just how much younger do you wanna get? why don't we just have stewie griffin take roszival's place while were at it.

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10-06-2009, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
Hate saying it, but couldn't agree more.

I do however, love Higgins and want him locked up. Why try to draft another Callahan when we have one already?
For two reasons:

1. I expect Kovalchuk to be available this summer, and paying $3+ for Higgins will mean no Kovalchuk.

2. Higgins will be $3-4, while a draftee would cost us $800k. Big difference, especially when guys like Dizzy will be getting paid "adult" salaries. It's a few years away, but the short-term is Kovalchuk, and the long-term would be Dizzy/Grachev/Stepan.

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10-06-2009, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AOWRanger View Post
Just how much younger do you wanna get? why don't we just have stewie griffin take roszival's place while were at it.
Tell me about it. Now we're really reaching.

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10-06-2009, 05:08 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
For two reasons:

1. I expect Kovalchuk to be available this summer, and paying $3+ for Higgins will mean no Kovalchuk.

2. Higgins will be $3-4, while a draftee would cost us $800k. Big difference, especially when guys like Dizzy will be getting paid "adult" salaries. It's a few years away, but the short-term is Kovalchuk, and the long-term would be Dizzy/Grachev/Stepan.
I really doubt Kovalchuk would want to sign here, after all he has two fights against this team (how many career fights does he have? three?).
Sure in the end a lot of money could persuate him, but he will get near league max in Atlanta if he wants to. And anyway I think he won't hit UFA status.

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10-06-2009, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Let me use this moment when everyone is happy to call for a mini fire sale. I just don't want people to think that I am responding to a loss if I post it when the team is down.

I really wish that Sather traded Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal and Rosie at the trading deadline for a second rounder each. Based on what he did in 2004, it is not unreasonable.
I guess your a glass half empty kind of guy. Sather had a firesale cause they did not produce. But lets forget the fact these players might produce for a moment and let me ask you,.. how many more rookies you wanna put on our backline? You think there are more MDZs and Gilroys out there? It is highly unusual to have 2 first year players on the blueline. I think you are presuming any rookie would be better than a contract.

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10-06-2009, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Let me use this moment when everyone is happy to call for a mini fire sale. I just don't want people to think that I am responding to a loss if I post it when the team is down.

I really wish that Sather traded Higgins, Kotalik, Prospal and Rosie at the trading deadline for a second rounder each. Based on what he did in 2004, it is not unreasonable.

The more excited I get about our youth, the more I wish we could actually add enough to it to make the team truly Stanley Cup quality in a few years. Plus, when the present crop matures and gets "adult" contract, we'll need cheap rookies.

If we have 6 picks in the first two rounds in 2010, it would be big for the franchise. Last time in 2004, we got at at least 2 players (Dubinsky and Korpikoski) plus another is on the way (Byers), as well as a 4th rounder in Callahan.

If we could pull off another three guys like Dubi, Cally and Korps, it would be excellent for the franchise. However, given the depth that already exists in the system, Slats would be able to go for high-risk, high-return guys like Savard and Dube. Hopefully, he'd pull out at least one superstar out of the 6 picks in the first two rounds or one of our later picks.

Oh well, I know it won't happen, but that's what I want. Ultimately, dealing away these 4 guys will guys will be better for the franchise than playing 5-6 more playoff games.

Again, I know it won't happen, but does anything think it might be a good idea towards the end of the season (obviously not now)?


I think this is a little extreme. The rangers currently have nine guys 25 or younger, with Higins 26 on their ACTIVE roster, with Grachev and Macdonagh leading a huge pipeline of young talent on the way. Redden and Rosie are both not going anywhere, although Roszival is more enticing since he comes off the books after next season

There is no need for a fire sale because quite frankly, I like making the playoffs every year and rolling the dice with Henrik leading us deep in the postseason instead of years and years of playing golf in April.

Dubinsky is blossoming into a star and gaborik is playing like he is a top-10 player in the league. Henrik is one of the three best goalies in the NHL, and our farm system is producing legit NHLers, I really dont push the panic button unless this team bottoms out, which wont happen IMO.

Besides, our scouting dept has proven to unearth gems in the later rounds. I have faith in them that they can draft solid players with just one pick each round. Our farm system doesnt need replenishing right now, so I would think a fire sale is out of the question.

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10-06-2009, 08:13 AM
  #11
darrenturcotte#8
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This team is finally starting to look like a quality hockey club. If by fire-sale, you mean trade Redden and Rozi, I'm with you. Higgins is great. Prospal wants to play for Torts and is at his best with him. I think if Redden and Rozi go, you have 12 mill to sign whoever you want. Thats enough. The rest of this team needs to stay, gel and compete as a team. We did rebuild and we got some great youth to go with the vets. We have a top tier goalie in his prime. This is not the time to dump the whole team and wait 3-4 yrs.

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10-06-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
I really doubt Kovalchuk would want to sign here, after all he has two fights against this team (how many career fights does he have? three?).
Sure in the end a lot of money could persuate him, but he will get near league max in Atlanta if he wants to. And anyway I think he won't hit UFA status.
His fights weren't against the Rangers per se, they were against the man wearing the Rangers sweater....huge difference.

I would think that he would jump at the chance of playing wing to Anisimov and Grachev, but hey, that's just me.

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10-06-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
For two reasons:

1. I expect Kovalchuk to be available this summer, and paying $3+ for Higgins will mean no Kovalchuk.

2. Higgins will be $3-4, while a draftee would cost us $800k. Big difference, especially when guys like Dizzy will be getting paid "adult" salaries. It's a few years away, but the short-term is Kovalchuk, and the long-term would be Dizzy/Grachev/Stepan.
We have this guy named Marian Gaborik....he is pretty good.

Can we stop with the calls for firesales and putting in all kids please? Let the season play out a bit before we start talking about this.

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10-06-2009, 08:28 AM
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Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
For two reasons:

1. I expect Kovalchuk to be available this summer, and paying $3+ for Higgins will mean no Kovalchuk.

2. Higgins will be $3-4, while a draftee would cost us $800k. Big difference, especially when guys like Dizzy will be getting paid "adult" salaries. It's a few years away, but the short-term is Kovalchuk, and the long-term would be Dizzy/Grachev/Stepan.
Holy christ here we go again with the kovalchuk ****.

Kovalchuk will not be a free agent. Ill put it this way, if Kovy goes, the Thrashers go, Assman Bettman will not let that happen, therefore he will do what it takes to keep Kovalchuk in Atlanta. The Thrashers have a small, but very loyal fanbase. And most of that fanbase believes not in the Atlanta Thrashers, but Ilya Kovalchuk.

I live in Atlanta, and have attended over 100 thrashers games in the past 3 years. I know this team almost as well as I know the Rangers.

Second, who the **** is "Dizzy"

Third, do you really expect a second rounder to be NHL ready out of the draft?

Fourth, why rush any prospects development just because you dont like having any player whos older than 25 and want to feild a team full of pre-schoolers? Some one else said it, might as well throw stewie griffin out there. At least there would be alot of comedy if we did.

You dont know what kind of year Higgins will have. He could have a 35-35 year and command 5.5 million, or could have a 25-25 and take 2.5 million to play for NY if he really likes playing here.

Prospal is the ****ing man. I want him to play here for another 2-3 years, hes a GREAT two way forward, has enthusiasm and is exactly the type of VETERAN, YOU HEAR THAT WORD VETERAN, ILL SAY IT AGAIN VETERAN that this team needs. Every team needs veterans to play a role. Were already like the 5th youngest team in the NHL. So chill the **** out, let our prospects come in due time.

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10-06-2009, 08:30 AM
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I think they do need to find a way to trade one of Rozsival or Redden, but more for cap reasons than anything. They'd probably be replaced by a cheaper vet at the moment, as a defense consisting of 5 young defensemen probably would give Tortorella ulcers.

I think at least one of Prospal or Higgins isn't here next year...not sure if the Rangers will be able to re-sign Higgins, and I guess we'll see how his season goes anyways, but I expect Grachev to take one of those spots anyways. Not sure I see any other major forwards ready to make a serious roster case quite yet, but that's ok.

Also don't think Kovalchuk is going to end up being available

edit:
Quote:
Every team needs veterans to play a role. Were already like the 5th youngest team in the NHL. So chill the **** out, let our prospects come in due time.
This is also really important. A team completely made up young players, even if they're really talented, is also pretty much a lock to not win the cup, or possibly not make the playoffs. The best thing is to have a good mix of veterans and talented young players (well, theoretically talented veterans too!)

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10-06-2009, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
We have this guy named Marian Gaborik....he is pretty good.

Can we stop with the calls for firesales and putting in all kids please? Let the season play out a bit before we start talking about this.
Yes. Hes very good. I may get ripped a new ******* for saying this but watching kovalchuk as long as i have, Kovalchuk very very slightly > Gaborik.

They are both top 10 players.

Kovalchuk 560 points in 546 games 1.03 ppg

Gaborik 441 points in 505 games. .874 ppg, while Gaborik has had health issues, and im sure every one will agree, coming back from injury takes a bit of time to get back in the swing. I cant say for sure, no one can, but i believe if healthy so far through his career gabby would be a ppg player.

They are both game changing players, they both dominate games and can single handedly win games for their teams. Im not saying if I had the option I would choose Gabby over Kovy or vice versa, but we have Redden at 6.5 for 4 more years after this season. Drury at 7 for 2 more years. If we didnt have Gaborik, Id say maybe we make a move for kovalchuk because we might not have 7.5 million in capspace spent on gabborik and could therefore re-sign our RFA's after this year and be able to sign kovalchuk but we, made Gaborik our man, lets stick with it and build the team with him and stop this infatuation with Kovalchuk.

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10-06-2009, 08:48 AM
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I hope only Roszival and Redden are part of that fire sale. Would like to see us retain Higgins. Prospal however is a tricky one. While I would like to see him stay and he loves playing for Torts, he may be too expensive.

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10-06-2009, 08:51 AM
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I'd be more interested in finding a good complimentary, legit 30 goal scorer to compliment Gaborik rather than hope that Kovalchuk is available and won't ask for the moon

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10-06-2009, 08:52 AM
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Not sure about a fire sale but I would pretty much do anything to rid ourselves of the big 3 contracts that we all seem to hate.

By my definition, fire sale usually means get rid of the players who you can get the most value for. That would mean our best young players who are looking more and more like our true core guys.

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10-06-2009, 08:55 AM
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I hope only Roszival and Redden are part of that fire sale. Would like to see us retain Higgins. Prospal however is a tricky one. While I would like to see him stay and he loves playing for Torts, he may be too expensive.
I dont think Prospal will be the type of player to bite the hand that feeds him. Hes 34 years old, knows his time is coming to an end, and if he has a monster season (for him that would be...) something like 30-35 or 25-40/45. I doubt he goes out and looks for a 5 million dollar contract as a 35 year old. Instead I bet he re-signs with the Rangers and bench boss Jtorts for a modest 2 mill ish. Hes 34, his time is slowly coming to an end. Why not play for a coach you have had success with, is the main reason your in New York, and play for a team that may have a chance to contend for the cup.

The Rangers are going to be the surprise of the NHL this year, and I fully believe they will win the cup within the next 3 years.

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10-06-2009, 08:57 AM
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This is just a very stupid idea. Not very well thought through. And it seems like the main basis for it is more for the signing of kovalchuk over "wanting the kids to play."

So I guess were just gonna field a team of youngster all unproven with no NHL experience? That should be fun to watch. Yeah in fact lets do it, lets look like the Islanders. And the dumbest part of this idea is that its pretty much ignoring the fact that we've made the playoffs every year since the lockout after not making it for 7 straight seasons, and we have a very good shot at making it again. You dont go and sign marion gaborik, paying him $7.5 million a year, without the intention of competing for a cup, I'm sorry you just dont. And if youre going to compete for a cup youre going to need key veteran players such as Prospal to lead your team, and he already has had an impact on this team.

Its ****ing laughable at the fantasy world some fans apparently live in. They must be living in this fantasy world since they think the rangers can just sign every marquee name every offseason. Hey kovalchuk is available this year so lets trade guys to make room because we must have him. God its ridiculous. What supporting cast are we gona have for him when we sign him? Gaborik? First line will look great, but every line after that will have guys that have no NHL experience. And no we wont be able to sign some cheap veterans because we'll have NO cap space left.

And who says the young players are ready? What young prospects are we bringing up?? Grachev? Because he couldve made the team out of camp, however, he still needs work on his game from what I saw. Stepan is not going to be on this team next year. And who the **** is Dizzy like someone mentioned???? Del Zotto?? Because that guy is on the roster right now. And if its not del zotto then whatever prospect youre giving nicknames to is definitely not ready otherwise we'd know who the hell your talking about. Theres a lot of youth as it is on the roster right now, how much ****ing more do you want? Enough to tank it when were 3 games into the season and our record is 2-1? I mean geez.

I really hope this team keeps playing well and gets better and better, posting a solid record to make the people that support this feel like a complete and utter moron.

3 GAMES IN! wow.

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10-06-2009, 09:06 AM
  #22
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I just don't understand this board's obsession with picks. For every one that does make it, there are a dozen wallowing in the minors or gone. Yes, evey so often you will find a gem, but honestly, I'm just plain tired of the grass is always greener crowd.

Please go join a fantasy hockey league if you know it all.

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10-06-2009, 09:11 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
His fights weren't against the Rangers per se, they were against the man wearing the Rangers sweater....huge difference.

I would think that he would jump at the chance of playing wing to Anisimov and Grachev, but hey, that's just me.
Yes, but one of those he fought is still on this team, and he isn't really loved around the league.
And I don't see how Grachev (who plays LW like Kovalchuk anyway) and Anisimov are any more of a reason than the numerous other Russians spread across the league.

I'm not saying he would never sign here, I just don't think we are in any better position than all the other teams in the league, and most of them can offer him more money than the Rangers, even after a firesale

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10-06-2009, 09:21 AM
  #24
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We already have a next wave of players that will be comng in.

And while I want Kotalik, Rozsival, and Redden to be moved, its for two other reasons:

1. Kovalchuk
2. To allow room for the next wave of players.

Kreider, Grachev, Stepan, Sanguinetti, McDonagh.

Those are the 5 most likely to reach heir potential.

The Rangers have been drafting very well with the picks they have.

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10-06-2009, 09:38 AM
  #25
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Barring a complete melt down coupled with a draft on the order of '03, I don't see this happening.

I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves with how good our pipe line is, but Sather has done a decent job building our depth. Now is the time to let some of that talent develop.

I see us incrementally adding to our depth with smart drafting and jumping at opportunities when they present themselves. The Gilroy situation comes to mind here.

A fire sale might see us losing some future gems to snag some vet who will come in and do squat. Sound familiar?

No thanks. I'll stick with what we have for now.

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