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The Lindros/Gagne Syndrome

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:06 AM
  #1
FlyersRKings
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The Lindros/Gagne Syndrome

I think a medical diagnosis is needed for the Flyers' ills over the course of this admittedly very young season. However, over the past few years, I think a pattern has emerged for why this team seems to be schizophrenic at times and mind-boggilingly frustrating at spans. My opinion? They're suffering from Lindros/Gagne Syndrome, characterized by the following symptoms:

1. Extremely talented
2. Ability to dominate games at WILL (will being the most important part)
3. Inexplicable periods of ineptitude
4. Inexplicable periods of laziness and lethargy
5. Prone to significant injuries at the most inopportune times
6. Questionable two-way playing

Any others here care to second this humble poster's opinion?


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Old
10-30-2009, 10:11 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
I think a medical diagnosis is needed for the Flyers' ills over the course of this admittedly very young season. However, over the past few years, I think a pattern has emerged for why this team seems to be schizophrenic at times and mind-boggilingly frustrating at spans. My opinion? They're suffering from Lindros/Gagne Syndrome, characterized by the following symptoms:

1. Extremely talented
2. Ability to dominate games at WILL (will being the most important part)
3. Inexplicable periods of ineptitude
4. Inexplicable periods of laziness and lethargy
5. Prone to significant injuries at the most inopportune times
6. Questionable two-way playing

Any others here care to second this humble poster's opinion?

I'm not sure Gagne has EVER been able to dominate games at WILL, he's a sniper that floats in space looking to shoot. A notoriously streaky type of player, at that. Periods of ineptitude? He's one of the best defensive forwards in the league...even when the goals aren't coming, he's helping. The perception of laziness and lethargy is built off the fact that he's a sniper...they tend to look that way when the puck isn't going in.

Questionable two-way play? Guy made the most competitive international roster in the world ENTIRELY because of his two-way play.

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:17 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure Gagne has EVER been able to dominate games at WILL, he's a sniper that floats in space looking to shoot. A notoriously streaky type of player, at that. Periods of ineptitude? He's one of the best defensive forwards in the league...even when the goals aren't coming, he's helping. The perception of laziness and lethargy is built off the fact that he's a sniper...they tend to look that way when the puck isn't going in.

Questionable two-way play? Guy made the most competitive international roster in the world ENTIRELY because of his two-way play.
I completely disagree. I have noticed, when he feels like it, that Simon can truly be inspiring to watch - that's what I mean by dominating in this sense.

I'm not sure how you can say he's a sniper on one hand 'who tends to look lazy' and a defensive forward on the other. Handzus is a defensive forward, not a player like Gagne. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

And yes, periods of ineptitude. At times, he can be absolutely invisible out there, especially this year (granted you can say he was playing injured, but there's no way to tell when he actually got his two hernias). To me that's unacceptable for a former 50 goal scorer who should be leading this team, not waiting for pucks to bounce his way.

But I digress - even if you don't agree with the Gagne assessment, I meant the diagnosis as one for the WHOLE team. Call it the Lindros Syndrome, if you prefer .

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10-30-2009, 10:22 AM
  #4
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I'm not sure your assessment of Gagne could be further from the truth.

Lindros syndrome...I mean, the guy was absolutely dominant until injuries derailed his career.

I think you're trying to make a point that just doesn't make much sense, frankly.

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10-30-2009, 10:31 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure your assessment of Gagne could be further from the truth.

Lindros syndrome...I mean, the guy was absolutely dominant until injuries derailed his career.

I think you're trying to make a point that just doesn't make much sense, frankly.

I'm starting to question whether or not you actually watched Lindros play. He COULD dominate a game, and then others it was like he shouldn't have even put his skates on. And this was well before his many concussions.

I'm not sure why you're defending Gagne so emphatically. He has NOT played well this year, end of story. He IS capable of excellent, like most of last year, and kudos to him from coming back from that concussion like he did. But he has 5 points this year - explain to me how this is 'sniper' material.

You don't seem to remember how Lindros was berated at times in the press for his lethargic play - I certainly do. It was frustrating to watch someone with so much talent simply coast for an entire game.

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10-30-2009, 10:38 AM
  #6
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I don't get involved in Lindros discussions, because he's my favourite player and I would defend him until death.

Having said that -- I don't see the resemblance between the two players (when healthy).

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10-30-2009, 10:42 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
1. Extremely talented
2. Ability to dominate games at WILL
3. Inexplicable periods of ineptitude
4. Inexplicable periods of laziness and lethargy
5. Prone to significant injuries at the most inopportune times
6. Questionable two-way playing
Things you got wrong are in bold.

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
I don't get involved in Lindros discussions, because he's my favourite player and I would defend him until death.

Having said that -- I don't see the resemblance between the two players (when healthy).
Not in style of play, but in attitude TOWARDS playing. Lindros earned the nickname 'Linda' around bars in Philly at the time when he chose not to be physical and simply blend in.

The similarity between the two for me is the on-game, off-game rigmarole. They were/are both excellent players when they choose to be. When they don't, it's frustrating to watch. See some of those games back in 97-99 when the Flyers used to get blown out by mediocre teams. We get blown out less and less these days, because the talent is spread out and we don't rely on one line for offense and one pairing for defense. If we relied on Gagne for offense, we WOULD get blown out.

He carries that 'A' on his sweater for a reason. He should be a leader on this team, and lately I've been frustrated because he just doesn't seem to be providing the spark needed offensively.

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10-30-2009, 10:50 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Things you got wrong are in bold.
Did you watch the Sharks game? I don't think we got a decent scoring chance after the first period. Explain to me, for a team this talented, how that happens if not for a sudden period of ineptitude.

I don't see how you can watch this team and not see periods of laziness as well - we dump and then refuse to chase, we try to sneak by with cross ice passes that get picked off instead of actually creating plays, and then the forecheck just absolutely disappears at times. That's what I mean by a good portion of that post.

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10-30-2009, 10:56 AM
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I have always liked Gagne but Lindros was in a league of his own during his Flyers days.

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:56 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Not in style of play, but in attitude TOWARDS playing. Lindros earned the nickname 'Linda' around bars in Philly at the time when he chose not to be physical and simply blend in.

The similarity between the two for me is the on-game, off-game rigmarole. They were/are both excellent players when they choose to be. When they don't, it's frustrating to watch. See some of those games back in 97-99 when the Flyers used to get blown out by mediocre teams. We get blown out less and less these days, because the talent is spread out and we don't rely on one line for offense and one pairing for defense. If we relied on Gagne for offense, we WOULD get blown out.

He carries that 'A' on his sweater for a reason. He should be a leader on this team, and lately I've been frustrated because he just doesn't seem to be providing the spark needed offensively.
As I already said, I won't comment on Lindros as it's likely to get me banned. Yes, even as a moderator.

As for Gagne -- the guy is ****ing hurt. Do you really expect spark from a guy with 2 hernia's (possibly other ailments, hip?) and his guts being pushed out his stomach wall???

Cut the guy some slack.

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10-30-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
As I already said, I won't comment on Lindros as it's likely to get me banned. Yes, even as a moderator.

As for Gagne -- the guy is ****ing hurt. Do you really expect spark from a guy with 2 hernia's (possibly other ailments, hip?) and his guts being pushed out his stomach wall???

Cut the guy some slack.
Seems to be some sensitivity towards criticizing some certain players on this board. In any case, Gagne DID play for 9 games. It should not take that long to sense that one has an injury, even if he is trying to play through it.

1. He could have aggravated the injury if he played more than one or two games hurt - whether he chose not to inform team doctors that he was hurt or whether they decided to play him knowing, it doesn't matter, same result.
2. If he only DID play one or two games hurt, then he was ineffective for the first eight games.
3. He does no one any favors by playing hurt and playing badly.

This is not a knock on Gagne personally, but on any player with an injury as severe as his trying to play through it. He does the team no favors doing this. I know it sounds all bad*** and tough and gritty to do that, but it does more harm than good in non-playoff situations, especially if the reason for poor play is directly because of it.

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10-30-2009, 11:13 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure Gagne has EVER been able to dominate games at WILL, he's a sniper that floats in space looking to shoot. A notoriously streaky type of player, at that. Periods of ineptitude? He's one of the best defensive forwards in the league...even when the goals aren't coming, he's helping. The perception of laziness and lethargy is built off the fact that he's a sniper...they tend to look that way when the puck isn't going in.

Questionable two-way play? Guy made the most competitive international roster in the world ENTIRELY because of his two-way play.
100% correct. Gagne cannot dominate a game at will, but his two-way play never falters. Even during this season, when he wasn't putting many pucks in the net and was playing injured, Stevens lauded his defensive effort and cited a stat about how Gagne has allowed the fewest offensive chances against.

This isn't to say he isn't streaky, because he is. As a pure shooter, he isn't going to make pretty passing plays often, but his skill lies in finding open areas and blasting off accurate shots. The reason he wasn't having much success this season was because his injury prevented him from using his speed to get to the open spots. You can never question Gagne's drive. He's also proven to be a clutch playoff performer.

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10-30-2009, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Helter Skelter View Post
100% correct. Gagne cannot dominate a game at will, but his two-way play never falters. Even during this season, when he wasn't putting many pucks in the net and was playing injured, Stevens lauded his defensive effort and cited a stat about how Gagne has allowed the fewest offensive chances against.

This isn't to say he isn't streaky, because he is. As a pure shooter, he isn't going to make pretty passing plays often, but his skill lies in finding open areas and blasting off accurate shots. The reason he wasn't having much success this season was because his injury prevented him from using his speed to get to the open spots. You can never question Gagne's drive. He's also proven to be a clutch playoff performer.
And that's where we differ. Again, I don't see anything super-special from Gagne. He has scored once, and we don't know when that injury occured (see my previous post). I do question his drive. There has been a good deal of talk on this board at times about trading Gagne, so I know I'm not alone in this respect. And I'm not really interested in Stevens' opinions on anything, especially after he said we played a 'good game' against San Jose. He is a solid player on his best days, but nothing spectacular. You can support and defend him unnecessarily all you want, but his actual on ice performance has dropped considerably, regardless of when that injury occurred.

For the record, I was always a Gagne fan. I have his jersey. I'm more disappointed about this than it seems.

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10-30-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Seems to be some sensitivity towards criticizing some certain players on this board. In any case, Gagne DID play for 9 games. It should not take that long to sense that one has an injury, even if he is trying to play through it.

1. He could have aggravated the injury if he played more than one or two games hurt - whether he chose not to inform team doctors that he was hurt or whether they decided to play him knowing, it doesn't matter, same result.
2. If he only DID play one or two games hurt, then he was ineffective for the first eight games.
3. He does no one any favors by playing hurt and playing badly.

This is not a knock on Gagne personally, but on any player with an injury as severe as his trying to play through it. He does the team no favors doing this. I know it sounds all bad*** and tough and gritty to do that, but it does more harm than good in non-playoff situations, especially if the reason for poor play is directly because of it.
Simon most likely thought that the soreness in his groin was just a remnant of his summer surgery/injury. Doctors told him he wouldn't be completely healthy until December. It wasn't until the San Jose game when he realized that something else must be wrong and he told Stevens he couldn't play mid-game.

I don't think that the point you are making in this thread really applies to Gagne. He wears an "A" on his jersey because he leads by example. He is a quiet person, but those people are often the most powerful leaders. You can't fault him for being injury-prone.

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10-30-2009, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveNeptune View Post
I have always liked Gagne but Lindros was in a league of his own during his Flyers days.
This.

When Lindros was on the ice you knew it. Not to mention the Legend of Doom. They were just unstoppable.

I for one think Gagne and Lindros are way two different style of play.

On the side of physical play. Lindros was a wreaking ball. I've never seen Gagne even come remotely close to checking people the way Lindros did.

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10-30-2009, 11:24 AM
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Lindros was like an adult playing midget hockey.

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10-30-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helter Skelter View Post
Simon most likely thought that the soreness in his groin was just a remnant of his summer surgery/injury. Doctors told him he wouldn't be completely healthy until December. It wasn't until the San Jose game when he realized that something else must be wrong and he told Stevens he couldn't play mid-game.

I don't think that the point you are making in this thread really applies to Gagne. He wears an "A" on his jersey because he leads by example. He is a quiet person, but those people are often the most powerful leaders. You can't fault him for being injury-prone.
Agree to disagree on Gagne then, even though the San Jose game is a bit late to be deciding that one's particularly bad playing is because of a nagging injury. Kudos to Gagne for trying to tough through it, but it may not have been the best move.

But you're about it not being the point of the post. I still think the points about it applying to the team are valid.

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10-30-2009, 11:27 AM
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Lindros was the single most dominant hockey player I've ever seen. Ovechkin resembles him in some way, but Lindros took it to a whole new level. I wonder if we'll see someone like that ever again.

His prime was a short period of time, but he was unbelievable.

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10-30-2009, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
This.

When Lindros was on the ice you knew it. Not to mention the Legend of Doom. They were just unstoppable.

I for one think Gagne and Lindros are way two different style of play.

On the side of physical play. Lindros was a wreaking ball. I've never seen Gagne even come remotely close to checking people the way Lindros did.
Not entirely true. Watch the '97 Cup Finals and see how ineffective the entire Legion of Doom line was, hardly any points and swept in four. And it wasn't just like that during the finals, Renberg became remarkably ineffective the next year and Keith Jones did admirably in his place but it was nowhere near what it had been. Lindros had help in the form of LeClair - without him at the net, Lindros wouldn't nearly have been as effective.

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10-30-2009, 11:29 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Lindros was like an adult playing midget hockey.
For real. His presence in the ice was so incredible he brought new fans to the game of hockey. (I was one of them)

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10-30-2009, 11:30 AM
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I don't see the comparison here. I have never questioned Gagne's effort on the ice. The same could be said for Lindros up until after the cup year. After that, things got so bad between him and Clarke and his parents, that he turned it off for lengths of period, which wasn't cool to watch as a fan. But I don't think Gagne has ever been known for giving up.

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10-30-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
Seems to be some sensitivity towards criticizing some certain players on this board. In any case, Gagne DID play for 9 games. It should not take that long to sense that one has an injury, even if he is trying to play through it.
You can criticize whom you wish, nobody is stopping you and it's well within the site rules to do so in a respectful manner. It doesn't though, mean I am agree with your viewpoints...because I don't.

As we know, Gagne was injured at the Canadian Olympic camp and I firmly believe he's been 100% since then. If you want to criticize players for playing injured, I hope you don't stop at Lindros and Gagne...because all players do it. It's part of the sport/game.

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10-30-2009, 11:31 AM
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It's a shame no one taught Eric to keep his head up.

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10-30-2009, 11:33 AM
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After that, things got so bad between him and Clarke and his parents, that he turned it off for lengths of period, which wasn't cool to watch as a fan.
At least I got one person to agree that at times, Lindros could not show up to play. And since the team was completely built around him, we failed miserably when he didn't.

I'm actually surprised at all the Lindros love on this board. I don't actually know anyone else who is high on him, in fact quite the opposite. There are some pretty bad feelings about how things went down in the late nineties in the Philly area.

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