HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Torts Appreciation Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-07-2009, 05:53 AM
  #1
Sad London Ranger
RIP Boogie
 
Sad London Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: london england
Posts: 2,455
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Sad London Ranger
Torts Appreciation Thread

Ok so we won 2 games. Nice powerplay goals no doubt about it.

But I keep hearing and reading about the magical hard working system Torts is putting into place and how the players are going to adapt this system and frankly I am bit puzzled.

Have we got faster players than last year? Have we got more physical players than last year or past teams. I simply don't see it. As a matter of fact I think the team looked fairly sloppy.

I mean I have played and watched hockey for half a century so I think I can see and understand a system unfold. unless torts is doing some cloak and dagger system I cannot yet fathom and I would rather he kept quiet about it....rather than to blame the players for failing his ingenious system.

Frankly I look at the Blues and I see what the coach is trying to achieve. He has got
players for it, but I don't see the Rangers having the staff to play uptempo hockey. At least not so far. They didn't play it last year when he joined and they are certainly not playing it so far.

and while I am ranting .......Torts smug / smartass press confs are starting to get
on my ****.

Sad London Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 06:21 AM
  #2
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
Ok so we won 2 games. Nice powerplay goals no doubt about it.

But I keep hearing and reading about the magical hard working system Torts is putting into place and how the players are going to adapt this system and frankly I am bit puzzled.

Have we got faster players than last year? Have we got more physical players than last year or past teams. I simply don't see it. As a matter of fact I think the team looked fairly sloppy.

I mean I have played and watched hockey for half a century so I think I can see and understand a system unfold. unless torts is doing some cloak and dagger system I cannot yet fathom and I would rather he kept quiet about it....rather than to blame the players for failing his ingenious system.

Frankly I look at the Blues and I see what the coach is trying to achieve. He has got
players for it, but I don't see the Rangers having the staff to play uptempo hockey. At least not so far. They didn't play it last year when he joined and they are certainly not playing it so far.

and while I am ranting .......Torts smug / smartass press confs are starting to get
on my ****.
It's not that the players are faster, it's that they're always skating. Torts conditioned them so they can actually play the 3rd period.

Torts is about an aggressive forecheck. You haven't noticed that?

And yes, we do have more physical players than last year. We lost soft guys like Naslund and Zherdev and picked up guys that won't shy away from a hit like Prospal and Higgins.

Not sure what you're not picking up on... I think the "sloppy" you're referring to is the 2 rookie d-men on the back end and the 2 rookie forewards up front. Other than that, it's been the typical Redden and Rozsival side-show.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 06:40 AM
  #3
Scooter17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Although it has been fun to watch so far, I think this style of play is going to come back to bite us in the end...we give up way too many chances. But maybe that will get better with time as players adjust.

Scooter17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 06:49 AM
  #4
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter17 View Post
Although it has been fun to watch so far, I think this style of play is going to come back to bite us in the end...we give up way too many chances. But maybe that will get better with time as players adjust.
The thing is, this team hasn't won anything since the lockout by playing it safe and hoping for the best. We will get scored on, and probably a lot, but at this point it is worth the risk to go in a different direction.

Also, despite all the odd-man rushes dating back to last season, Henrik has held his own for the most part. I'm willing to bet his stats under Tortorella so far still very good.

Anyway, let's not kid ourselves... this team is not a SC contender and part of that is because of Sather's cap mismanagement. You just hope that the two young defensemen mature quickly and we somehow make the playoffs again.

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 06:58 AM
  #5
True Blue 96
Registered User
 
True Blue 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: S. Huntington, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
Ok so we won 2 games. Nice powerplay goals no doubt about it.

But I keep hearing and reading about the magical hard working system Torts is putting into place and how the players are going to adapt this system and frankly I am bit puzzled.

Have we got faster players than last year? Have we got more physical players than last year or past teams. I simply don't see it. As a matter of fact I think the team looked fairly sloppy.

I mean I have played and watched hockey for half a century so I think I can see and understand a system unfold. unless torts is doing some cloak and dagger system I cannot yet fathom and I would rather he kept quiet about it....rather than to blame the players for failing his ingenious system.

Frankly I look at the Blues and I see what the coach is trying to achieve. He has got
players for it, but I don't see the Rangers having the staff to play uptempo hockey. At least not so far. They didn't play it last year when he joined and they are certainly not playing it so far.

and while I am ranting .......Torts smug / smartass press confs are starting to get
on my ****.
I think we are a much better skating team then last year. When Torts took the timeout on Monday he chewed out the players because they weren't skating or being physical and just watching the play. These first few games this year you can see a different team then last year. We have players forchecking and putting pressure on all the time, not waiting but attacking. As for sloppy play I have seen the rookies make mistakes but what is more alarming is how Redden and Rozy are playing...mostly Rozy. He is afraid to get hit and completely freezes whenever somebody puts pressure on him.

True Blue 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:09 AM
  #6
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
It's not that the players are faster, it's that they're always skating. Torts conditioned them so they can actually play the 3rd period.
I think Torts have done alot of good things, he is a awsome coach-coach -- there is no denying that. I have some big questionmarks about Torts, if he knows what it takes to win in the "new" NHL. If he can be "elite" in that aspect too. And I think thats a really important aspect.

But, how have Torts "conditioned" the players, and how is it paying off? 2-3 days at camp?

I do get alittle annoyed by that talk because he could never ever get away with if he was in a Canadian city -- and while one isloated incident isn't exactly harmful, over the years here in NY it have become a big problem. Coaches/GM's/players can BS the media as much as they want and they always gets away with it. They are writing their own history/story most of the time. Like have Slats ever been called out for not trapping in 03' when every team in the league had trapped for half a decade? No never. The only thing he was called out for was that he let vets have optional practises and the rest was blamed on the players. Isn't that a problem? When the guys in charge can do whatever they want and nobody knows whats really goes on?

Reality is that Torts could have skated the players as hard as he did for thoose 2 days for a month, and its probably not enough to even have a marginal impact on how well a player is conditioned. To make a NHL team alot better conditioned then other teams in the league is a process that would take several years without anydoubt -- and its covered in NY press like all you need to do is follow that MTV program were they pick up like a teenage girl and challenge here to become a boxer/cheerleader and train here for like 2 weeks.

With that said, I am not against what Torts have done -- mentally it can have a impact. He is giving a team a fresh start and he is taking maximum advantage of the that so far -- and thats 100% positive. But facts are that we have not heard any "stat" of how much better conditioned this team is and there is a reason for that -- we are probably worse conditioned this season then last year. If not we would get thoose stats in our face because they have all the numbers. The reason we are worse conditioned is probably because the personell we have, like not Prucha, Dawes, Betts, Sjö and co, and more heavier and bigger players. I don't mind that Torts is putting on the show he have so far, but media shouldn't pick up on it and report for more then it actually is. If Torts have success that success will be accredited to the wrong actions, it would not have anything to do with how well conditioned this team is, if he fails, the failure would probably be blamed on something else then the right reason. Like "he thought it would be enough to practise harder which wasn't enough".

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:21 AM
  #7
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,671
vCash: 500
Ola, the good thing is that with this system the players will continue to condition themselves as the season goes along. Under Renney, there was a lot of puck-watching and not much hustle, and thus while other teams slowly got stronger and sharper, we did not. Also, I don't agree that the players are probably less conditioned right now than at the same time last season. For example, I have noticed that Dubinsky, Staal, Redden, and Drury all look noticeably quicker and stronger so far this season.

Tortorella is laying the foundation for the players to play up to their potential, whatever that may be

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:23 AM
  #8
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
The thing is, this team hasn't won anything since the lockout by playing it safe and hoping for the best.
Thats actually not true either.

Go back and look at last seasons roster. Look at the start that team had. Just how good of a start was that?

Like:
Näslund-Gomez-Drury
Dawes-Dubinsky-Zherdev
Prucha-Kopri-Callahan
Sjö-Betts-Orr
Voros
Staal-Rozi
Redden-Girardi
Kalinin-Mara


No size. Very little skill. Poor defense. No QB ability from the blueline whatsoever. Very little playmaking ability.

I mean we got alot better with Avery, Antro and Morris -- but still had nothing to put up against the Caps.

So can we say that if we didn't play like Torts but like STL and Andy Murray instead or like Boston or like Detroit that we would be booring again? No, not IMO.

Last year we just didn't have a good team -- the fact that we got into the PO's IMO was a success with that roster.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:26 AM
  #9
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,701
vCash: 500
Ola, Torts was in contact with all the players the Rangers signed and told them what he expected out of them in terms of conditioning so they had some time to start working on that before training camp even started.

It's not like he just had absolutely no contact with the players until the day training camp started

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:28 AM
  #10
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,966
vCash: 500
Hated the way Torts acted at times last season.

Like the way Torts has handled the young players. Like his puck pursuit system. Puck pressure. That's Rangers hockey. Whether it's Anders Hedberg and Ulf Nilsson. Herb Brooks. Mark Messier. Mike Keenan.

The signature of the Rangers organization is having up tempo good skating teams. When the team has had success,that is the style they have played.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:37 AM
  #11
Scooter17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
I think the bottom line is that no matter what system this team plays, they will always have the potential to be a winning team because of one very important factor: LUNDQVIST. I think a lot of people take him for granted and forget how important and how good he is.

Scooter17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:41 AM
  #12
Scooter17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
and while I am ranting .......Torts smug / smartass press confs are starting to get
on my ****.
Me too. He can be an arrogant a-hole.

Scooter17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:52 AM
  #13
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,913
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Ola, Torts was in contact with all the players the Rangers signed and told them what he expected out of them in terms of conditioning so they had some time to start working on that before training camp even started.

It's not like he just had absolutely no contact with the players until the day training camp started
Not only that, but most players are given an actual training schedule and diet for the off-season by the teams trainers.

The Diet is more of a guide than anything, but the training schedule is set in stone and the first 2 days of camp was really to test how dedicated these players were to that schedule.

And Ola,

The difference between what the Rangers are trying to do in comparisson to training a teenager to be a boxer in 2 weeks is that the teenager has never had any previous formal training in that discipline where as hockry players are already conditioned to na extent. Training harder throught a summer CAN give you a leg up on the competition.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 07:58 AM
  #14
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,913
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter17 View Post
Me too. He can be an arrogant a-hole.
I like the arrogance.

That arrogance is the New York that I remember as teenager back in the late 70's to early 80's.

Feels good to have that back again.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:03 AM
  #15
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think Torts have done alot of good things, he is a awsome coach-coach -- there is no denying that. I have some big questionmarks about Torts, if he knows what it takes to win in the "new" NHL. If he can be "elite" in that aspect too. And I think thats a really important aspect.

But, how have Torts "conditioned" the players, and how is it paying off? 2-3 days at camp?

I do get alittle annoyed by that talk because he could never ever get away with if he was in a Canadian city -- and while one isloated incident isn't exactly harmful, over the years here in NY it have become a big problem. Coaches/GM's/players can BS the media as much as they want and they always gets away with it. They are writing their own history/story most of the time. Like have Slats ever been called out for not trapping in 03' when every team in the league had trapped for half a decade? No never. The only thing he was called out for was that he let vets have optional practises and the rest was blamed on the players. Isn't that a problem? When the guys in charge can do whatever they want and nobody knows whats really goes on?

Reality is that Torts could have skated the players as hard as he did for thoose 2 days for a month, and its probably not enough to even have a marginal impact on how well a player is conditioned. To make a NHL team alot better conditioned then other teams in the league is a process that would take several years without anydoubt -- and its covered in NY press like all you need to do is follow that MTV program were they pick up like a teenage girl and challenge here to become a boxer/cheerleader and train here for like 2 weeks.

With that said, I am not against what Torts have done -- mentally it can have a impact. He is giving a team a fresh start and he is taking maximum advantage of the that so far -- and thats 100% positive. But facts are that we have not heard any "stat" of how much better conditioned this team is and there is a reason for that -- we are probably worse conditioned this season then last year. If not we would get thoose stats in our face because they have all the numbers. The reason we are worse conditioned is probably because the personell we have, like not Prucha, Dawes, Betts, Sjö and co, and more heavier and bigger players. I don't mind that Torts is putting on the show he have so far, but media shouldn't pick up on it and report for more then it actually is. If Torts have success that success will be accredited to the wrong actions, it would not have anything to do with how well conditioned this team is, if he fails, the failure would probably be blamed on something else then the right reason. Like "he thought it would be enough to practise harder which wasn't enough".
Torts gave the players a program to follow during the summer and told them what they would be expected to do in training camp. They came into camp in top shape ready to perform up to his standards.

Remember last season how the team would disappear in the 3rd? I suspect it had something to do with the conditioning of the players and fatigue. I know it's only been 3 games, but so far they haven't disappeared yet in the 3rd. Hopefully those types of games will be few and far between with Torts.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:11 AM
  #16
Scooter17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I like the arrogance.

That arrogance is the New York that I remember as teenager back in the late 70's to early 80's.

Feels good to have that back again.
I'm sure you wouldn't feel that way if you were one of the people he was always talking down too and treating like crap.

Scooter17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:11 AM
  #17
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,214
vCash: 500


Holy christ its THREE GAMES!!!!!!!!

you can bring this up after 20!

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:15 AM
  #18
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,041
vCash: 500
To expand on the conditioning argument, Sather acquired players in the offseason that have played in an uptempo system before, so I can't imagine how they would be any worse conditioned than last year.

Kotalik played run-and-gun in Buffalo, Prospal played under Torts in Tampa. Higgins is used to playing an uptempo game from his years in Montreal. So it's not like any of these players were forced to become "well-conditioned" only this offseason.

Also, there were members on last year's teams who were DEFINITELY worse conditioned than this year's team. Naslund and Mara come to mind, and I think Mara's conditioning level has something to do with why he's not currently on the team.

I just fail to see how this team can be worse conditioned considering that Torts obviously had a hand in choosing what players to acquire. He was heated last year when the Rangers would collapse in the 3rd period due to exhaustion. The conditioning level of the players is something that is integral to a Torts system and I can't imagine him not taking this into account.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:22 AM
  #19
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,913
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter17 View Post
I'm sure you wouldn't feel that way if you were one of the people he was always talking down too and treating like crap.
Sorry, but I learned sports from coaches just like him and all they want is for you to do what they tell you to do.

If you (not you specifically) are not smart enough to follow simple directions, then you need to be spoken to as if you were a dummy.

I didn't have a problem with it then, I do not have a problem with it now and I will have no problem with it in the future.

Sometimes people need to be spoken to in certain ways to 1) get their point across and 2) to get the attention of the person they are speaking to.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:27 AM
  #20
bumrusherer
Registered User
 
bumrusherer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,820
vCash: 500
I like the system. I like the idea of making teams have to work through the neutral zone instead of giving them a free pass to skate into our defensive zone.

As for balance, I think once we have a contending team, there will be more balance in the system. But considering that we are probably a borderline playoff teams, we might as well just attack and go for the jugular at this stage.

bumrusherer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:31 AM
  #21
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Sorry, but I learned sports from coaches just like him and all they want is for you to do what they tell you to do.

If you (not you specifically) are not smart enough to follow simple directions, then you need to be spoken to as if you were a dummy.

I didn't have a problem with it then, I do not have a problem with it now and I will have no problem with it in the future.

Sometimes people need to be spoken to in certain ways to 1) get their point across and 2) to get the attention of the person they are speaking to.
I don't think Tortorella treats his players like he treats the media, and I personally don't give a damn how he treats the media.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 08:32 AM
  #22
Synergy27
Registered User
 
Synergy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Country: United States
Posts: 5,780
vCash: 500
All I know is that by mid-season last year I was becoming terribly bored with watching this team play. I couldn't really understand my feeling because I have lived and breathed Rangers hockey for many years, but I definitely turned games off or missed them completely several times last year because there were just other things to do that were more fun. I attribute this to the style of hockey they were playing, not to any sort of change in my own lifestyle, although I do admit that that could have played a role as well.

That said, without even discussing Xs and Os at all, it is blatantly obvious that this team is playing a significantly different "system" this year than last year. Are they going to win with it? Probably not, but they weren't going to win playing Renney's conservative style either. The difference is that this "system" is fun to watch, it is hockey as it was meant to be played, and I will at least be entertained while watching the team achieve mediocrity. Entertainment is all any of us are really asking for anyway, right?

Synergy27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 09:04 AM
  #23
Jeds2StepOpus
Registered User
 
Jeds2StepOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 500
You guys do realize this is a work in process, right?

Superior Conditioning does take a long time to develope, build and for there to be a noticabe difference. But there are short term benefits.

I think some of you are forgetting that Torts gave each player a conditioning program to follow, in the off-season; as soon as last season ended.

You have to start some where. And you can't expect ........all of the sudden ......we have the best conditioned team in then league. Doesn't waork that way. But there are short term benefits.

Furthermore, for the players who started Tort's conditioning program right away (after a few weeks of rest and relaxation); there will be small improvements and progress. It will take time to see a big differences and results. Anyone who has been a gym rat and has worked out/conditioned themselves, knows there will peaks and valleys.

Be patient. Again, Torts had to start some where. This is just the beginning.

As for his system, there's a very noticable difference. But they haven't mastered it, yet. Of course there's going to be sloppiness and missed assignments. Of course they're going to get burned some times. That's the nature of this system.

They are much more aggressive all over the ice. Their puck pursuit and their aggressive challenging for the puck has improved, dramatically. Their forecheck is more aggresive and they have been able to gain the puck/control the puck more.

Every system has it's advantages and flaws. There's no perfect system. But if you can get the players to really master the system and you have some horses; you can go far with it.


This team is overall faster. Adding Gaborik, Lisin, Higgins, Gilroy and Prospal does make them faster. Obviously it doesn't mean our Rangers will all of the sudden look like a bunch of Roadrunners, blazing around the ice and leaving nothing but a blurry trail behind them.

It's a work in process. Can't get it all done in one summer.

Jeds2StepOpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 09:05 AM
  #24
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,214
vCash: 500
Bottom line for me -

The team is playing to win, instead of playing not to lose.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2009, 09:23 AM
  #25
levski87
Registered User
 
levski87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 3,980
vCash: 500
You should all be thankful we play this type of style. Last year we would give up 3 to 7 breakaways / odd man rushes in a game while trapping! Does no one remember how ironic that was. This year we actually have our share of breakaways/ oddman rushes.

levski87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.