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Old
10-07-2009, 09:31 AM
  #26
Sad London Ranger
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sorry I think under Renney we played some really decent hockey....is it just me? Renney was offered
the wrong players to work with Gomez and Redden. Gomez with Jagr was not Renney's idea. Getting Redden instead of Campbell or Streit...who knows.


I would also like to say that I don't think this team has a forechecker as good asMarty Straka, Blair or Sjoestrom.....and throw Gomez (I do NOT miss him) Korpo, Prucha and Naslund and I think this team was at least as fast if not faster than the current team. So I fundamentally disagree with the notion that this team is faster

Toughness - yes Brashear, Boyle, and Higgins are a step up. But neither Gilroy nor Del Zotto are as physical as Mara, Tuytin.

While on the subject of Del Zotto, the golden boy, he tebnds to carriy the puck up the ice......than dumps it when he cant go any further. Again personally I think this completely counteracts the no redline offside advantage. So again I am not impressed. this kid is a major talent no doubt and I was hoping for some swift offensive break out passing and so far I have seen none of that.

We have the fastest forward and our D is now carrying the puck instead of Gomez like last year.


So I think this whole reshuffle is a big smoke up our collective b...s.


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 10-07-2009 at 09:37 AM.
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Old
10-07-2009, 09:34 AM
  #27
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The system is what it is.

I really think we should wait a few more games before some hardcore judgment is being passed on it.

I just hope we keep winning. Clearly at some point last year the players gave up on Renney (not to mention the teams' talent was overall awful). It was time to move on.

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Old
10-07-2009, 09:35 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Bottom line for me -

The team is playing to win, instead of playing not to lose.

Yep. It's refreshing.

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Old
10-07-2009, 09:36 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
You should all be thankful we play this type of style. Last year we would give up 3 to 7 breakaways / odd man rushes in a game while trapping! Does no one remember how ironic that was. This year we actually have our share of breakaways/ oddman rushes.
Excellent point.

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10-07-2009, 09:38 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
sorry I think under Renney we played some really decent hockey.

I would also like to say that I don't think this team has a forechecker like Marty Straka, Blair or Sjoestrom.....and throw Gomez (I do NOT miss him) Korpo, Prucha and Naslund and I think this team was at least as fast if not faster than this current team. So I fundamentally disagree with the notion that this team is faster

Toughness - yes Brashear, Boyle, and Higgins are a step up. But neither Gilroy nor Del Zotto are as physical as Mara, Tuytin. Del Zotto, the golden boy, carries the puck up the ice......than dumps it when he cant go any further. Again personally I think this completely counteracts on the no redline offside advantage. So again I am not impressed. this is a kid that has major talent no doubt I was hoping for some swift offensive break out passing and so far I have seen none of that.
Did you not see that pass he made to Gaborik that led him to a breakaway against the Pens?

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10-07-2009, 09:38 AM
  #31
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Yeah, definitely forgot to add I like the idea of "playing to win" rather than "playing not to lose". You lose more often than not when you play the latter. Same with other sports.

And any criticisms of Del Zotto at this point are ridiculous. The kid is younger than me and is already the best passer on this team. He also has had a few breakout passes (regular and pre-season). He has 3 points already in 3 games... Christ, I'd be ecstatic if Redden scored 3 in 15.

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10-07-2009, 09:52 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KotsyJr View Post
The system is what it is.

I really think we should wait a few more games before some hardcore judgment is being passed on it.

I just hope we keep winning. Clearly at some point last year the players gave up on Renney (not to mention the teams' talent was overall awful). It was time to move on.
I am not wishing the old days back. please don't misunderstand me.

What I would like to understand how this system, I have see seen against Sens and Devs, will bear fruit in the long run considering that we dont arguably have a much faster team nor a better forechecking team.

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Old
10-07-2009, 09:56 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
sorry I think under Renney we played some really decent hockey....is it just me? Renney was offered
the wrong players to work with Gomez and Redden. Gomez with Jagr was not Renney's idea. Getting Redden instead of Campbell or Streit...who knows.


I would also like to say that I don't think this team has a forechecker as good asMarty Straka, Blair or Sjoestrom.....and throw Gomez (I do NOT miss him) Korpo, Prucha and Naslund and I think this team was at least as fast if not faster than the current team. So I fundamentally disagree with the notion that this team is faster

Toughness - yes Brashear, Boyle, and Higgins are a step up. But neither Gilroy nor Del Zotto are as physical as Mara, Tuytin.

While on the subject of Del Zotto, the golden boy, he tebnds to carriy the puck up the ice......than dumps it when he cant go any further. Again personally I think this completely counteracts the no redline offside advantage. So again I am not impressed. this kid is a major talent no doubt and I was hoping for some swift offensive break out passing and so far I have seen none of that.

We have the fastest forward and our D is now carrying the puck instead of Gomez like last year.


So I think this whole reshuffle is a big smoke up our collective b...s.
Wrong.

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20092010,2,6

2:40

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Old
10-07-2009, 10:15 AM
  #34
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saw THE pass!

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Old
10-07-2009, 10:21 AM
  #35
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Too many odd-man rushes, but I think maybe they will be reeled in a bit once Torts has left his mark. I don't remember tampa playing this aggressively.

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10-07-2009, 10:34 AM
  #36
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I guess you could argue that as a team we may not be a lot faster but the mobility and skill level on this team has improved. Drastically improved mobility on the blue line too. Gomez was the only guy who could carry the puck last year and now the D men do it, and will get better. Big difference, "will get better". Nineteen year old running the power play already? Wow!

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Old
10-07-2009, 10:39 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
I am not wishing the old days back. please don't misunderstand me.

What I would like to understand how this system, I have see seen against Sens and Devs, will bear fruit in the long run considering that we dont arguably have a much faster team nor a better forechecking team.
The basis of your argument is that last year's (and previous Renney years) team was as fast and as good at forechecking as this year's, right? As far as forechecking is concerned, how can you even discuss the ability of last year's team when they were hardly even allowed to attempt it. This year's team is unarguably better at forechecking than last year's team simply because of the fact that they actually forecheck.

Now on to the speed thing. Let's take a look at the changes in terms of speed:

Gaborik > Gomez (Gomer is fast, Gaborik is explosive)

Lisin > Korpikoski (Lisin might be the fastest straight line skater in the NHL)

Higgins > Naslund (Maybe not in Markus' prime, but his skating had clearly regressed)

Prospal = Zherdev (Nik isn't a speedster despite being a finesse perimeter guy)

Gilroy >> Mara (Again, this is only addressing speed, not overall game)

Boyle < Betts

Brashear >= Orr (Let's face it, Orr is a horrible skater, despite his improvements)

Voros << Sjostrom

I dunno man. Up and down the lineup I think it is pretty clear that this year's team is faster than last year's, except on the 4th line where it doesn't really matter much. I don't think there is much there to argue.

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Old
10-07-2009, 10:40 AM
  #38
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Torts' system works, when you have a goalie that can actually make a save. Thats what happend in tampa bay. He won the Cup with the Bulin wall. Then came back from the lock out and had John Grahame, Johan Holmqvist, Marc Denis... Etc. His system had no chance.

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10-07-2009, 10:43 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
sorry I think under Renney we played some really decent hockey....is it just me? Renney was offered
the wrong players to work with Gomez and Redden. Gomez with Jagr was not Renney's idea. Getting Redden instead of Campbell or Streit...who knows.

Yeah, it's just you. And me. And a few others... Most people here think that Torts has a unique system. You not going to convince anyone who listens to MSG. Keep in mind majority of the fans know about the game and the team as much as Jim Dolan.

Two words: Henrick Lundqvist. He plays the way I always thought he will one day. Should he played the way he did for Renney, there would be plenty of "analysts" blaming defense, Rozy, Redden, rookies, Sather, Torts and his system, the way he handles the media, etc. So far Hank saves Torts system from being scrutinized. Therefore this thread is simply premature.

No one argues that uptempo system is by far more peasant to watch. Whether this system wins more than any other is a very good question.

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10-07-2009, 10:48 AM
  #40
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Two words: Henrick Lundqvist. He plays the way I always thought he will one day. Should he played the way he did for Renney, there would be plenty of "analysts" blaming defense, Rozy, Redden, rookies, Sather, Torts and his system, the way he handles the media, etc. So far Hank saves Torts system from being scrutinized. Therefore this thread is simply premature.
Lundqvist isn't playing any better than he did at the start of last year

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10-07-2009, 10:50 AM
  #41
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Lundqvist isn't playing any better than he did at the start of last year
Last year we had the best start in Rangers glorious history!

Voros -Dubinski-Zherdev

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Old
10-07-2009, 11:04 AM
  #42
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The team is incredibly more entertaining then it was last year.

Lundqvist can handle the load, as long as they continue to score goals in support.

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10-07-2009, 11:05 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
Torts' system works, when you have a goalie that can actually make a save. Thats what happend in tampa bay. He won the Cup with the Bulin wall. Then came back from the lock out and had John Grahame, Johan Holmqvist, Marc Denis... Etc. His system had no chance.
75% rule??

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10-07-2009, 11:07 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The team is incredibly more entertaining then it was last year.

Lundqvist can handle the load, as long as they continue to score goals in support.
Well If Lundqvist got tired playing around 70 games in a safe system last year, how many will he be good for this year, I think is a vital question. Is Valiquette good enough to handle an aggressive system. Already we've seen that changing the style has brought out the best in some players (Dubinsky, Gilroy) and the worst in others (Rozsival, Girardi). Goalies are no exception.

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Old
10-07-2009, 11:47 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
sorry I think under Renney we played some really decent hockey....is it just me? Renney was offered
the wrong players to work with Gomez and Redden. Gomez with Jagr was not Renney's idea. Getting Redden instead of Campbell or Streit...who knows.


I would also like to say that I don't think this team has a forechecker as good asMarty Straka, Blair or Sjoestrom.....and throw Gomez (I do NOT miss him) Korpo, Prucha and Naslund and I think this team was at least as fast if not faster than the current team. So I fundamentally disagree with the notion that this team is faster

Toughness - yes Brashear, Boyle, and Higgins are a step up. But neither Gilroy nor Del Zotto are as physical as Mara, Tuytin.

While on the subject of Del Zotto, the golden boy, he tebnds to carriy the puck up the ice......than dumps it when he cant go any further. Again personally I think this completely counteracts the no redline offside advantage. So again I am not impressed. this kid is a major talent no doubt and I was hoping for some swift offensive break out passing and so far I have seen none of that.

We have the fastest forward and our D is now carrying the puck instead of Gomez like last year.


So I think this whole reshuffle is a big smoke up our collective b...s.
Straka wasn't fast, he showed a lot of hustle, though.

Sjostrom was fast. Gomez is fast. Korpedo had ok speed.

Betts is not fast but not slow. Prucha hustled but didn't have good speed.

Naslund is not fast.

All this is pointless though because you're confusing speed with conditioning.

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Old
10-07-2009, 11:53 AM
  #46
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Lets put it this way... my mother watches Rangers games, but she is in no way shape or form an expert when it comes to systems or even strategy of the game, not even in the modest of respects.
But shes been a fan, for a long time.

She called me after the first three games and said "Wow, they are really fast this year huh?"

I think that puts the speed issue to bed. The Rangers are a faster team, that was one of the goals of the offseason. I also explained to her how the different styles of play differed from years past. She picked up on that too. But for a novice hockey mind, the speed is what jumped out at her in comparison to last year. Thats an easy observation to make and its the correct assessment.

No mom jokes please.

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10-07-2009, 12:01 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Bottom line for me -

The team is playing to win, instead of playing not to lose.
/thread

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Old
10-07-2009, 12:03 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Lets put it this way... my mother watches Rangers games, but she is in no way shape or form an expert when it comes to systems or even strategy of the game, not even in the modest of respects.
But shes been a fan, for a long time.

She called me after the first three games and said "Wow, they are really fast this year huh?"

I think that puts the speed issue to bed. The Rangers are a faster team, that was one of the goals of the offseason.
I think no one disagree. They are faster. Will they win more? Flames was arguably the fastest team in the NHL last season under Keenan.

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Old
10-07-2009, 12:14 PM
  #49
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Frankly, even though I don't think we're going to be that much better than we were last year (I'd say a 5th seed is our ceiling), I'm so excited for this season just for the fact that it's going to be FUN to watch Ranger games again.

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10-07-2009, 12:15 PM
  #50
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The bottom line is this...the Rangers are not playing Torts' system yet. There are mistakes all over the ice. Torts' system is basically 3 men on the ice, at all times, need to be attacking the other team. if they have the puck, 1 guy is going to go straight to him, and the other 2 need to be anticipating where the puck is going to, and get there fast. if they cant, then someone else will, and they need to rotate back to cover for that player. its a rotation system. its all about making a play that may take you out of position, have someone rotate to cover your ass, then you go back and they go back.

our rotation has been sloppy to put it kindly. Literally the only player i can see who is playing right on almost eveyr shift is Prospal. This is a pretty difficult system to play if youre not used to playing it, because you arent really a winger, or a center, or a defenseman, you are a skater. people need to play out of their comfort zone to make plays happen. every and any defenseman has carte blance to join a play if they feel they can make a difference, the problem has been Torts' system requires someone rotate back to the defensive position to cover and right now, nobody is rotating back like they should. It also depends on a tremendous amount of back pressure, but that has been there so im happy about that.

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