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Is failure the key to success?

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10-07-2009, 11:14 PM
  #1
Stjonnypopo
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Is failure the key to success?

What do you guys think?

I know this isn't true for all of the teams, but the Penguins were a sub-par team for a couple years before becoming the strong team they are today, same thing with Chicago, who spent the better part of 5 years closer to the bottom of the standings than the top and now they've become a strong team and definitely a contender.

There are arguments that go against this idea, Detroit has always been strong, New Jersey for the past decade also, and on the other end of the scale (without personally attacking the fans of these teams) Toronto and the Islanders have been pretty weak for a while.

I'm thinking all this because Colorado was pretty horrible last year and had a good draft this year, they're expected to do poorly again this year which would get them another good pick, does this mean in a couple years they might be a strong team like they were in the late 90s early 2000's?

Is building through the draft the key to success? We know some GM's think so (Burke and Snow showed this in the draft this season)

If a team is in the middle of the standings, does this mean they're probably going to stay there until something drastic happens?

Throw some ideas my way

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10-07-2009, 11:15 PM
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goooal
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No more tanking threads...please...

The Pens really did tank, though.

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10-07-2009, 11:17 PM
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dawkins121
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The Red Wings would tend to disagree

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10-07-2009, 11:19 PM
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Here we go again!

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10-07-2009, 11:19 PM
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Nicklas Lidstrom
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You don't have to draft high to "build through the draft"

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10-07-2009, 11:26 PM
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detredWINgs
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So we have teams like the Pens and Hawks who have sucked for a while, and turned it around. Maybe the Jackets can be included in this soon.

Then we have teams like Phoenix, LA, and Toronto who have sucked for a while, and still haven't done much.

Then we have teams like New Jersey and Detroit who have rarely drafted high or done poorly in the past 10, 12, or 15 years.

Then we have teams like Vancouver, Minnesota, and Boston who have done a fair amount of fluctuating in the past 5 years or so.


Honestly, I don't see any pattern here. There are cases to bat for all sides of the issue.

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10-07-2009, 11:30 PM
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fatschoonerrat
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Watch out for Atlanta starting this year. They will support your theory.

While I don't think it's THE way to build a winner, it's A way.

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10-07-2009, 11:37 PM
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PZA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
Watch out for Atlanta starting this year. They will support your theory.

While I don't think it's THE way to build a winner, it's A way.
Evander Kane FTW.

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Old
10-07-2009, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
The Red Wings would tend to disagree
Actually before Yzerman the Wings were one of the worst teams in the league for years. I think the stat was 17 years and only 2 playoff appearances. Either way they sucked at one point which is kind of hard to believe now.

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10-08-2009, 12:10 AM
  #10
danishh
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how do you explain a team like the 2005-2007 sens then? the 2000-2009 DRW? the late 90's stars?

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10-08-2009, 12:33 AM
  #11
Selke
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For some teams it works. For others not so much.

Chicago and Pittsburgh, it worked. Very nicely at that.

For teams like Tampa and Atlanta, I'd say not so much. I guess it all depends whose in office and scouting for said team.

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10-08-2009, 12:36 AM
  #12
SergeConstantin74
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For Toronto, failure is a way to get Boston at the top.

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Old
10-08-2009, 12:37 AM
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The idea that to win a cup you have to be horrible is such a b.s. myth.

Ask the Islanders, Kings, Panthers, Thrashers what high picks have done for them.

Pittsburgh got Crosby+Malkin laregley because they were bankrupt, not because they decided to tank it.

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10-08-2009, 12:38 AM
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For me you either suck for a while and get high draft picks or you get very lucky and draft a lot of guys who make quick impacts.

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10-08-2009, 12:39 AM
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Key to success is player development, making great trades and don't blow your load on July 1st.

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10-08-2009, 01:51 AM
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the key to success is simply good management. You have good people in place they will find the talent required no matter where they draft.

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Old
10-08-2009, 01:57 AM
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HTFN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg Zeppelin View Post
You don't have to draft high to "build through the draft"
Seriously. I think Mike Green was actually a Detroit pick, though that could have been Fleischmann. Hell, maybe both. Either way, Green was taken with the 26th pick, and look at where he is now. You don't need a top 5 pick to get a good player, clearly shown with Detroit's Datsyuk/Zetterberg thing.

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10-08-2009, 02:20 AM
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BigT2002
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Its been proven before that you can win championships through FA as well. Granted not nearly as much as now, but look at teams such as Detroit in 2002. Or Colorado during around the same stretch. Two teams that signed quite a few HHOFs in order to make deep playoff runs before the season even started.

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10-08-2009, 02:41 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Its been proven before that you can win championships through FA as well. Granted not nearly as much as now, but look at teams such as Detroit in 2002. Or Colorado during around the same stretch. Two teams that signed quite a few HHOFs in order to make deep playoff runs before the season even started.
But those teams already had home grown cores before they made trades to surround their talent with more talent. Colorado had Sakic and Forsberg(he counts as home grown for the Avs, IMO). Detroit had Yzerman and Fedorov.

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10-08-2009, 02:44 AM
  #20
TheDanceOfMaternity
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The Sharks might as well give it up and give failure a shot

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Old
10-08-2009, 03:11 AM
  #21
BigT2002
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Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
But those teams already had home grown cores before they made trades to surround their talent with more talent. Colorado had Sakic and Forsberg(he counts as home grown for the Avs, IMO). Detroit had Yzerman and Fedorov.
Very true. However, none of the new teams are 100% drafted players either are they? How many of the players on the Pens or Blackhawks were drafted by them because of tanked years? Are they?

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10-08-2009, 03:34 AM
  #22
Gibsons Finest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveio View Post
Actually before Yzerman the Wings were one of the worst teams in the league for years. I think the stat was 17 years and only 2 playoff appearances. Either way they sucked at one point which is kind of hard to believe now.
A lot of people tend to forget those years, I believe. And while there are very few players on their current roster who made their way to Detroit during the lean years, one of them is a guy they would never win without and is easily their best player(a reason I thought it was stupid for Datsyuk to be nominated for the Hart).

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Old
10-08-2009, 05:11 AM
  #23
NYRFANMANI
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Well i thought this is a pretty neat thread/theory until i entered it...

Tanking blabla
kind of okward ... (how do i spell this one?)

Is failure the key to success?

Well in first case success is the key to success,
Then i'll say it is heart/willingness/poise
and last but not least btw the one and only thing which without you'll never be able to win is FAILURE!

Pens are the perfect example, i dont have to explain that any further.

to answer the thread so, it is the way life is (probability). You cant win everytime and always. Take the almost perfect season of the Patriots LOL i loved it (what was it 16-1 ? or 17-1? only season loss in the Finals )
But one failure can teach you more then 100 victories ...

via Napoleon, Hitler, Pens <- ignore this line

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Old
10-08-2009, 05:58 AM
  #24
MoreGore
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Sucking for years is not they key, drafting well is very important. Failure just helps with draft position. Luck is also important. Look who Pittsburgh got when they sucked. It isn't too often those type of players come around.

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Old
10-08-2009, 06:11 AM
  #25
Jill Sandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
how do you explain a team like the 2005-2007 sens then? the late 90's stars?
You explain the Sens through their mid 90s records. From 1992 on, they draft 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 1st, and 1st. That's actually 'worse' then the Penguins. The late 90s teams? Like the Avalanche? Three first overall picks in a row? 5 years picking in the top 5..? Detroit and Dallas, both of their captains were top 5 picks. New Jersey picked 8th, 6th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 12th and 5th during a period in the 80s.

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