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All-Time Draft #12, Part III

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Old
10-09-2009, 12:59 PM
  #76
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'm not disagreeing on his skills. You should know that. But if I was after Keats, (and I am after every player when the time is right) I would also expect him to drop further because he was a western player and that's how they roll.
There are several reasons why I feel very fortunate to have been able to select Duke Keats at 293:

- In my opinion, Duke Keats was the best center available since Darryl Sittler at 196. That's on reason why I REALLY didn't wanted to take the chance to fall at 348.
-In the last 3 drafts, Keats was taken 318, 279 and 312 ... so I feel fortunate to see him available at 293.
-The ''newbies'' over the Leafs board seems to respect the pré-NHL ERA players more than the usual ATD'er. I have no doubt one of them would of took Keats before my next selection
- the next center on my list was a good notch under Keats in term of skills and overall value

Those are the reasons why I'm thrilled to have selected Keats now, even though I could of use that pick to fill other spots.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:03 PM
  #77
jarek
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Let's not misunderstand each other, jarek. As I have made no specific statements about your team, I will assume that your arguments regarding Duff and Ramsey are directed at those who have and that you are just expressing them in a post ostensibly directed at me. Speaking very generally, I have nothing against pure checking lines on principle; I just think they're hard to pull off in reality. I'll list the reasons:

1) Line matching doesn't have an amazingly high success rate, especially on visiting ice. No matter how hard you try and how good a coach you have, over a 7 game series you're not going to get your preferred matchup more than about 60% of the time if the other team does anything against it. Line matching also involves the risk of changing lines on the fly, a problem that is magnified against ATD 1st units which are almost unanimously capable of exploiting a bad change.

2) Icetime: even if 100% line-matching success were possible, that means you would be giving 1st line icetime to 3rd line offensive talents. Sure, you might slow down another team's top unit, but you're slowing down your own, as well.

3) Defensemen: most ATD teams don't have two stud, pure defensive-defensemen to make such a scheme successful without being wasteful. Most teams have at least one 2-way guy like a Lidstrom or a Park among their two best defensive defensemen, which is problematic for putting together a shutdown unit. Either you largely waste the offensive talents of one of your best defensemen (Lidstrom feeding pucks up ice to...Guy Carbonneau?!) or you man your "shutdown unit" with a lesser player at its most important position.

If I were to build a pure shutdown unit, I would probably do it as a 1st or 2nd line with stud 2-way players like Lemaire, Hooley Smith, etc. At least then I could justify the icetime they'd be getting and the defensemen with whom they'd be playing. One could argue that my 1st line in ATD#11 (Delvecchio - Nighbor - Cook) was a variation on this theme.

You just described almost my entire ATD#8 team; I've been burned on that flame before. If you think you are speaking with someone who does not adequately respect team or line balance, you are mistaken.
First lines aren't going to play 30-40 minutes per game, no way. I don't see how putting the 3rd against the 1st out every time isn't a legitimate strategy. Historically, it works, otherwise, guys with legacies like Ramsay and Carbonneau and Gainey wouldn't exist. I don't see how I'm limiting my own team's strengths by matching 3rd on 1st. My 1st would still get plenty of time on the ice. Also, I think even in an ATD, a "shutdown" defensive pairing in most cases will also have competent enough offensive skills to start a rush. Harry Howell is a gem of an example. He was elite defensively while also being strong enough offensively that he's not out of place in starting a rush. He is a perfect guy for a shutdown pairing, and there are many "Harry Howells" out there, although most not as good.

I guess in the end we'll see how all this plays out.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
There are several reasons why I feel very fortunate to have been able to select Duke Keats at 293:

- In my opinion, Duke Keats was the best center available since Darryl Sittler at 196. That's on reason why I REALLY didn't wanted to take the chance to fall at 348.
-In the last 3 drafts, Keats was taken 318, 279 and 312 ... so I feel fortunate to see him available at 293.
-The ''newbies'' over the Leafs board seems to respect the pré-NHL ERA players more than the usual ATD'er. I have no doubt one of them would of took Keats before my next selection
- the next center on my list was a good notch under Keats in term of skills and overall value

Those are the reasons why I'm thrilled to have selected Keats now, even though I could of use that pick to fill other spots.
seventies is the reason that we all love pre-NHL players..

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:05 PM
  #79
jarek
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post


Yo Pavel, I'm really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but Marty Pavelich is one of the best defensive forwards of all-time. Of all-time!






New York Golden Blades select LW Marty Pavelich.
You are epic winner.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:06 PM
  #80
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
seventies is the reason that we all love pre-NHL players..
I'm not doubting that.

I might have raised some eyebrows with my first statement (Keats as the best center available since Sittler), but I'll try to make an extra good bio on Keats

Got to go, I won't be around until later tonight.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:07 PM
  #81
jarek
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm not doubting that.

I might have raised some eyebrows with my first statement (Keats as the best center available since Sittler), but I'll try to make an extra good bio on Keats

Got to go, I won't be around until later tonight.
In my Leafschat ATD team, I almost took Keats as my spare forward, so I know a bit about him. He was certainly good.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:12 PM
  #82
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
In my Leafschat ATD team, I almost took Keats as my spare forward, so I know a bit about him. He was certainly good.
As a spare forward? Oh the good old time where I could take Jack Darragh at 525 and Moose Johnson a 374

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10-09-2009, 01:13 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
In my Leafschat ATD team, I almost took Keats as my spare forward, so I know a bit about him. He was certainly good.
I'm glad you didn't. It really is a shame Keats hasn't really had any chance to shine on our team; but there isn't room to play him really.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:15 PM
  #84
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Rzeznik and Nalyd/Sturm:

You guys can leave a list with me if you won't be around by Mullin's pick. I'll be here all night.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:17 PM
  #85
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Tidewater selects
C Pavel Datsyuk



529 games, 171 goals, 352 assists, 523 points

2002 Olympic Bronze Medal
2002 Stanley Cup Champion
2006 Lady Byng Trophy
2007 Lady Byng Trophy
2008 Stanley Cup Champion
2008 Lady Byng Trophy
2008 Selke Trophy
2008 NHL Plus/Minus Leader
2009 Lady Byng Trophy
2009 Selke Trophy

I think Datsyuk is a great pick. YOu have a guy who won multiple Selkes, who brings far more to the table offensively than any of the defensive specialists who have been picked before. He was my first choice for my upcoming picks, but I didn't think he would fall that far, and he didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
The Winnipeg Jets select defenseman Ott Heller
I was looking at him 40 or so picks ago when I got Goldham, so to get him this much later seems good value.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:21 PM
  #86
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raleh and I are big Heller fans. He wasn't the best defenceman available, but he was tops on our list for this round. And he was No. 2 on our short list for the last round. His combination of toughness and puck-moving ability gives me reason to believe he's a Jean-Guy Talbot type of defenceman, and that's pretty good for Round 10.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:21 PM
  #87
MXD
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
There are several reasons why I feel very fortunate to have been able to select Duke Keats at 293:

- In my opinion, Duke Keats was the best center available since Darryl Sittler at 196. That's on reason why I REALLY didn't wanted to take the chance to fall at 348.
-In the last 3 drafts, Keats was taken 318, 279 and 312 ... so I feel fortunate to see him available at 293.
-The ''newbies'' over the Leafs board seems to respect the pré-NHL ERA players more than the usual ATD'er. I have no doubt one of them would of took Keats before my next selection
- the next center on my list was a good notch under Keats in term of skills and overall value

Those are the reasons why I'm thrilled to have selected Keats now, even though I could of use that pick to fill other spots.
I don't think Keats was the BCA.

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Old
10-09-2009, 01:27 PM
  #88
God Bless Canada
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I don't think Keats was the BCA.
I would agree, although Duke's close. Better centres out there. But if you want a tough, gritty centre who is talented enough to centre a second line (and would therefore be an excellent linemate for the skilled Bobby Bauer), then Duke's the best option out there.

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Old
10-09-2009, 02:09 PM
  #89
God Bless Canada
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I have paper's list, but I might not be around when his pick(s) comes up. Because it'll likely be for Round 10 and possibly Round 11, I'd like someone to take his list who has already picked this round.

Thanks.

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Old
10-09-2009, 02:49 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm not doubting that.

I might have raised some eyebrows with my first statement (Keats as the best center available since Sittler), but I'll try to make an extra good bio on Keats

Got to go, I won't be around until later tonight.
Here's a start.....




Quote:
"Gordon (Duke) Keats was the best player of all time. You would have thought he had a nail in the end of his stick, the way he could carry that puck around. He was that good." -- Lloyd McIntyre (a former teammate)
Quote:
“Duke is the possessor of more hockey grey matter than any man who ever played the game” – _______
Quote:
” The "Iron Duke," hailed on all sides as one of the most dominating forces ever seen, was the best player in the league. Throngs of people clamored to see the big man perform miracles with the puck. He shot as well as anyone anywhere, combining unparalleled offensive ability with a hard, clean style to become the greatest player in Edmonton before Gretzky.” – Ultimate Hockey
Quote:
“A fiery leader, once while playing for Toronto of the National Hockey Association during the 1916-17 season, Keats became so angered by the poor performance of goalie __________ that he strapped on the pads and took over in net himself for the next period.” – Red Wings History on NHL.com
Quote:
“the brainiest pivot that ever strapped on a skate because he could organize plays and make passes every time he starts” – _______


Gordon “Duke” Keats!!

Awards and Achievements:
4 x WCHL First All-Star (1922, 1923, 1924, 1925)
WHL First All-Star (1926)

Top-10s:
NHA Scoring
Points – 3rd(1916)
Goals – 5th(1916)
Assists – 3rd(1916)

WCHL Soring
Points – 1st(1922), 2nd(1923), 3rd(1924), 4th(1925)
Goals – 1st(1922), 4th(1923), 5th(1924), 2nd(1925)
Assists – 1st(1922), 4th(1923), 2nd(1924), 6th(1925)

WHL Scoring
Points – 6th(1926)
Goals – 4th(1926)
Assists – 6th(1926)

NHL Scoring
Points – 9th(1927), 10th(1928)
Goals – 10th(1927), 15th(1928)
Assists – 8th(1927), 7th(1928)

Penalty Minutes – 1st(1916), 2nd(1922), 1st(1923), 3rd(1924), 8th(1925), 1st(1926)


Last edited by Dreakmur: 10-09-2009 at 04:18 PM.
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Old
10-09-2009, 02:49 PM
  #91
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
There are several reasons why I feel very fortunate to have been able to select Duke Keats at 293:

- In my opinion, Duke Keats was the best center available since Darryl Sittler at 196. That's on reason why I REALLY didn't wanted to take the chance to fall at 348.
-In the last 3 drafts, Keats was taken 318, 279 and 312 ... so I feel fortunate to see him available at 293.
-The ''newbies'' over the Leafs board seems to respect the pré-NHL ERA players more than the usual ATD'er. I have no doubt one of them would of took Keats before my next selection
- the next center on my list was a good notch under Keats in term of skills and overall value

Those are the reasons why I'm thrilled to have selected Keats now, even though I could of use that pick to fill other spots.
OK, fair enough, you're right.

Good job noticing the Leafs Board guys appreciate the older players. I may have had something to do with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
As a spare forward? Oh the good old time where I could take Jack Darragh at 525 and Moose Johnson a 374
God, make picks like that today and you're punching your ticket to the finals. Should have been that way back then, too, except the reason they dropped so far was no one appreciated them. So getting far by getting steals like that is a bit of an oxymoron.

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Old
10-09-2009, 02:54 PM
  #92
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
With our 24th selection, the Temagami Lake Spartans are happy to finish our roster with a player who can fill in on any line. He can provide offense or physical play. We are proud to select the Iron Duke himself....
No Keats for you. Not this time.

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Old
10-09-2009, 02:56 PM
  #93
jarek
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
No Keats for you. Not this time.
My e-mail..

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Old
10-09-2009, 03:56 PM
  #94
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Hartford Whalers select Joel Otto, C.



Joe Pelletier wrote:

Quote:
He had overcome his early label of a monstrous thug to be one of the league's most valuable and sought after players.
(just love that description )

Quote:
Otto was a 6'4" 220lb face-off specialist who loved to physically punish any opponent at any time. He became the prototypical 3rd line center that everyone wanted. Huge and strong and not afraid to demonstrate that fact, Otto was very good defensively, and excelled at puck drops. A dedicated athlete and tireless worker, he was a quiet leader.
Quote:
Otto faced off against all the top centers in the league, shutting them down defensively and physically abusing them at the same time. But the Messier-Otto war-like grudge matches were classic.

"Those two had some incredible battles. He was the only guy I saw who could physically dominate Mark," said former Oiler Mike Krushelnyski.
- 2x Selke finalist
- his PPG in playoffs actually improved compared to the regular season
- 74 pts in 122 postseason games, incl. 15 pts in 22 games, 19 in 22 and 6 in 6 - rather excellent for a 3rd line defensive center
- won the Cup with Flames in '89

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Old
10-09-2009, 04:09 PM
  #95
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I don't think Keats was the BCA.
Yes he was

I probably know who GBC has in mind, which I firmly disagree. As for you MXD, I only have one name in mind, a player we both love a lot, but he doesn't have the overall abilities of Duke Keats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I would agree, although Duke's close. Better centres out there. But if you want a tough, gritty centre who is talented enough to centre a second line (and would therefore be an excellent linemate for the skilled Bobby Bauer), then Duke's the best option out there.
The Duke will feed his passes to one of the greatest goalscorer of All-Time in Roy Conacher.

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Old
10-09-2009, 04:35 PM
  #96
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Can anyone take my list for tonight?

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Old
10-09-2009, 04:56 PM
  #97
jarek
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Can anyone take my list for tonight?
I can, however, I pick before you. If you're willing to trust me, I can take it for you.

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Old
10-09-2009, 05:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
I can, however, I pick before you. If you're willing to trust me, I can take it for you.
OK, thanks. List sent to jareklajkosz. If all the names on the list are gone and my pick comes up tonight, skip me and I'll make the pick tomorrow.

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Old
10-09-2009, 05:22 PM
  #99
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I'm very pleased to select a player whose ability to thrive under pressure was incredibly obvious over the past two playoffs as he scored a combined 51 points and won the 2008 Conn Smythe.

He's a career PPG player, very good at both ends of the ice and has been an impact playoff performer in his last five trips to the pos-season... including back to back trips to the Cup Finals. He's also able to play both LW and C on my second line.

I'm very happy to add LW/C Henrik Zetterberg

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Old
10-09-2009, 05:40 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
The Duke will feed his passes to one of the greatest goalscorer of All-Time in Roy Conacher.
I was hoping that Keats would be feeding passes to an even greater goal scorer of the same last name. A Northcott-Keats-Conacher line would have been a real handful for defenses.

Recchi was a bargain where he ended up getting picked.

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