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Franzen out 4 months with torn knee ligament

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Old
10-09-2009, 08:49 PM
  #76
Howard35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Filppula - Datsyuk - Homer looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Two guys who only shoot if as a last ditch effort and a guy who can barely stay on his skates.
Pavel needs someone with a desire to shoot the puck and get open. Franzen was the perfect man not named Hank.

CALL UP HAT TRICK DICK!!!!!!!

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Old
10-09-2009, 08:54 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTownWingsfan View Post
Whether or not Babs keeps these lines will remain to be seen, but it's how they practiced:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Cleary
Leino-Helm-Williams
May-Draper-Maltby (Eaves working in)
Franzen (out)

But Gator is also back up so I guess either him or Eaves will take Franzen's spot until Helm can play on Tuesday.
That top line is the sort of thing that might be a good idea in the preseason or something, stick Filppula with a guy looking to pass first and a human wall and tell him "well someone has to be taking shots Fil", but actually icing that for even 1 game in the regular season without having tried it before just seems silly. That said, all that has happened so far is exactly what I'm saying, try it out at training and see how Fil handels it.

I guess Babcock is steadfastly refusing to pair Zata and Dats because of the whole, lots of long playoff runs and midseason olympics break has him trying to spread out ice time, which is easier if you try and keep more depth, but this seems nuts.

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10-09-2009, 09:12 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin24 View Post
Omg this is terrible. I wonder who I should grab on my fantasy. Leino or tuzzi
I have a feeling that this injury will benefit Cleary and Flips fantasy production more than either of these two.

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Old
10-09-2009, 09:16 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Filppula - Datsyuk - Homer looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Two guys who only shoot if as a last ditch effort and a guy who can barely stay on his skates.

And its no surprise that Babs is keeping Bert - Hank - Cleary together. After all, they've proven to have ZERO chemistry together at even strength, just how Babs likes it.
Disagree. Dats and Flip have shown great chemistry in the past.

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Old
10-09-2009, 10:14 PM
  #80
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Haven't read any posts and/or articles yet but he played the whole game to my knowledge. That means he skated on it. And that means it's not a complete tear(probably). MRI most likely showed a very small tear so 4 months is accurate(probably). Any new info would be great...

*******!

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Old
10-09-2009, 10:18 PM
  #81
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I would actually like to see Leino get some top six time.

Zetts-Dats-Homer, Leino-Flip-Cleary, Williams-Helm-Bertuzzi, May-Draper-Maltby.

Let Williams-Helm-Bertuzzi feast on other teams' bottom lines. Seriously, with Bert's bad skating and average defense he's basically Hudler Deluxe.

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Old
10-09-2009, 10:32 PM
  #82
detredWINgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Disagree. Dats and Flip have shown great chemistry in the past.
Yes. With Franzen or Hossa on their line. Two players chemistry does not a line make.


As if Franzen - Datsyuk - Homer wasn't mediocre enough through the first 3 games...

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Old
10-09-2009, 10:38 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Well, obviously this is a really bad development. We're way over 100 goals down from last season now, and the defense isn't very sound. That's a recipe for a very difficult season ahead. Plus, that 11 year deal is looking more risky all the time.

But there are some kinda positive angles to view this from. First, the salary cap crunch is solved now. Holland won't have to do anything to clear up space when Helm is healthy, and the same holds true when / if Lilja is cleared. That benefits Eaves. This will also give Leino more of an opportunity to step up, as well as Filppula.

I'm counting Franzen out for the rest of this season, though, including the playoffs. Even if we get him back he'll be hard pressed to be the high impact player we need and expect.

let's hope that guaranteed contracts are eliminated w/ the next CBA...?

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Old
10-09-2009, 10:39 PM
  #84
detredWINgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
I would actually like to see Leino get some top six time.

Zetts-Dats-Homer, Leino-Flip-Cleary, Williams-Helm-Bertuzzi, May-Draper-Maltby.

Let Williams-Helm-Bertuzzi feast on other teams' bottom lines. Seriously, with Bert's bad skating and average defense he's basically Hudler Deluxe.
Except worse on the PP.

I'd like to see Leino get some time on the top 2 lines, too, but I'd like to keep Hank and Datsyuk separated for the time being. I'm not sold on Filppula being a scoring line center yet.

I also wouldn't mind Williams on the top 2 lines, and no, I can't believe I'm typing that. He's played with a lot of jump, and hes been smart with the puck, too. Of course, he may only look good because he's in a 3rd line role without much pressure from the oppositions best D pairings.

Either way, I hope that Babs experiments with the lines, and doesn't force a line to play together that simply has no chemistry.

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Hes a UFA. Armstrong, Christensen, Esposito, and a first was quantity over quality for Hossa.
... and Fil, Kronwall and a first obliterate that package.

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MikeyDangles View Post
Hope?
Yeah, Menace has a little bit of an ax to grind with people who don't think Howard ought to get 20 NHL starts before anyone can make any comments on his skill level or possible future.

Personally, I'd love it if Jimmy Howard turns into a 60 start #1 goalie for the Wings and becomes a positive difference maker at that position... just like I'd love it if Darren Helm turns into a 40 goal scorer on a top line.

I think there's an equal chance of either happening.

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:12 PM
  #87
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The only way to get things in gear is to get Z-D-H back in gear (assuming "H" gets back to form...).

If not, I'd like to see either Helm or Leino on the top line with Zetsyuk.

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:14 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Except worse on the PP.

I'd like to see Leino get some time on the top 2 lines, too, but I'd like to keep Hank and Datsyuk separated for the time being. I'm not sold on Filppula being a scoring line center yet.

I also wouldn't mind Williams on the top 2 lines, and no, I can't believe I'm typing that. He's played with a lot of jump, and hes been smart with the puck, too. Of course, he may only look good because he's in a 3rd line role without much pressure from the oppositions best D pairings.

Either way, I hope that Babs experiments with the lines, and doesn't force a line to play together that simply has no chemistry.
The thing that makes me most calm about Franzen going out is that with the current roster you can come up with three or four or five completely different combinations without resorting to anything truly wacky.

Granted, the Wings minus Franzen aren't going to score 320 goals or anything, but they'll have one of the top 5 offenses in the West...










... as long as nobody else gets hurt... (knockknockknockknock)

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jacK View Post

let's hope that guaranteed contracts are eliminated w/ the next CBA...?

You;ve just advocated a two-year lockout.

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:34 PM
  #90
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Gaaaawd this ****ing blows! Man this is really killing my buzz.

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:37 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by UBCsalmonslayer View Post
I have a feeling that this injury will benefit Cleary and Flips fantasy production more than either of these two.
Yea I thought about Filp too but prob with him he's a center. My centers are Crysby,J-Rod and Kopitar.
need to replace a RW. Big Bert is a LW/RW and Leino a LW.
decisions decisions.
**** FRANZEN IS OUT THIS SHT IS ****ED

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Old
10-09-2009, 11:41 PM
  #92
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I hear Nylander is in great playing shape..

Please, for the love of God, take him!

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Old
10-10-2009, 12:16 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Its really not.

Hudler ---> Leino + Bertuzzi
Sammy ---> Williams
Kopecky ----> Helm
Drake ----> May
Downey/Hartigan/Extras ----> Eaves, Abdelkader.

Personally, I see every single one of those as an even swap or an upgrade.
Yeah me too. Though the person that brought up the idea of the puck possession being better makes an intriguing point.

I suppose you can argue that this team will need time to form chemistry. "Time" means "growing experience" which means more losses than usual during the first 20-30 games, which means that they'll be playing catch up the whole year.

You can also argue that the team in '08 only had one or two new faces while this team has many more new and inexperienced players.

But all in all I think the comparison is a pretty good one. Who knew that when Cleary went down that Franzen was going to come out of the woodwork? I'm not saying that will happen again this year but the Wings have a few names that have a good chance of stepping up. Personally I think Cleary is salivating at the opportunity to play 18-19 minutes a game in order to solidify a spot in the top six.

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Old
10-10-2009, 12:49 AM
  #94
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Ok before people freak out about Franzen lets do a little comparison to say the 07-08 team offensively.

Team 07/08- Team 09-10 Predictions
Datsyuk (31)- Datsyuk 30 [if he isn't around there I'd be really surprised]
Zetterberg (43)- Zetterberg 35 [if he is reunited with Dats it could go to 40s]
Franzen (27)- Leino 25 [Now that he'll get PP time I don't think 25 is out of reach]
Homer (20)- Filppula 22 [I think with more PP time he'll be back up over 20 too]
Cleary (20)- Cleary 20 [I think he is a sure bet for 20 with top 6 minute]
Filppula (19)- Bert 15 [About his average]
Huder (13)- Williams 15 [Its a little higher than his average but he missed a lot of games the last 2 seasons]
Raffy (13)- Raffy 10 [he is getting a bit older and I expect his scoring to go down a bit]
Sammy (11)-Kronner 12 [I think this is Kronners breakout year offensively]
Lids (10)- Lids 10 [its his norm]
Kronner (7)- Ericsson 10 [That shot cannot be denied and he has a good nose for jumping into the play]
Draper (9)- Helm 10 [That speed will get him breakways and he does not have hands of stone]
Malts (6)- Abdelkader 8 [He'd probably score more than Helm if he gets more playing time but I think it'll take him awhile to earn it]
Lebda (3)- Maltby 6 [I feel like he's going to really push for one last year before retiring]
Kopecky (3)- Lebda 3 [if only he had a tinsy bit of hockey sense]
Cheli (3)- May 2 [He'll pot a timely grinder goal or two]
Drake (3)- Meech 2 [ He is gonna get one or two seeing spot duty at forward/d]
Lilja (2)- Franzen [I think he comes back a game or two before the playoffs and pots a few]
Ellis (2)- Draper 5 [As a winger he is better offensively and defensively at this stage of his career]
Hartigan (3)- Homer 7 [I think this will be his last season but he'll still get a few timely PP goal]
Stuart (1)
Ericsson (1)

Total 07/08 (252 goals) vs 09/10 (249)

Thats not too bad and I didn't account for callups or give anyone too gaudy of numbers. Yes young guys are going to have to pan out somewhat but that was true of this season anyhow. As long as we don't lose anyone else for an extended period of time I think we'll be ok. Also I really doubt Holland will rest and not make some sort of deal after he sees what this team needs. If Ozzie holds up I think the offense and defense will work itself out.

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Old
10-10-2009, 12:56 AM
  #95
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This is a ****** move but it can have its positive side too, in a month from now if noone steps up to take on Franzen's production (I personally don't see guys like Williams or Bertuzzi doing it) Holland has a few millions to play with NOW, perhaps it's time for Babcock to move up Leino and Filppula on the second line to see what Leino is made of (Flip should be there to begin with), if things are still not going well for the first 20 games, TRADE.

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Old
10-10-2009, 12:58 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Yes. With Franzen or Hossa on their line. Two players chemistry does not a line make.


As if Franzen - Datsyuk - Homer wasn't mediocre enough through the first 3 games...
Actually, Filppula, Datsyuk, and Cleary have played together in the past and looked great. I think it was in '07-08, when Babcock was screwing with the lines to split up Hank and Pavel.

I'm still not really sure why they're split up. They're clearly better together than apart... and the Wings won the Cup with them playing together. I understand spreading out the scoring and needing each guy to carry his line... but the bottom line is they've won a Cup playing together before.

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Old
10-10-2009, 01:10 AM
  #97
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You know what? You can't compare 2007 or even 2008 to this team. People get older, and with age comes slowing. Osgood is slower. Lidstrom is slower. Draper and Maltby are slower. Not just speed-wise, but the game is passing them all by. Hell, even Zetterberg and Datsyuk are slower. The fact of the matter is, the Wings need to get some fresh blood, and I don't mean Eaves, May, or whatever other 3rd/4th line scrub Holland can dredge up.

Filppula + whatever else for Kovalchuk! Make it happen!

(sorry, I'm fairly drunk)

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Old
10-10-2009, 01:20 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by arice89 View Post
I'm still not really sure why they're split up. They're clearly better together than apart... and the Wings won the Cup with them playing together. I understand spreading out the scoring and needing each guy to carry his line... but the bottom line is they've won a Cup playing together before.
His thinking might be along the lines of puck possession. Both play 20+ minutes and are among the best two-way players in the game. If they are on separate lines that's potentially a maximum of 40 minutes of a great chance that the puck is in the Red Wings possession and not the opponent's. If Pav and Z are together, then you only have 20 minutes of that luxury.

That along with the fact that last year Babs could really spread out the talent and make teams think twice about their lines and matchups. However, we both saw against Anaheim that a team can have one incredibly dominant line and still hang with the Red Wings depth. For better or for worse Babs isn't a fan of changing his own mind but Franzen's injury might be the hockey Gods' way of telling Babs that you don't split up the cosmic out of this world force that is the euro twins.

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Old
10-10-2009, 01:25 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
His thinking might be along the lines of puck possession. Both play 20+ minutes and are among the best two-way players in the game. If they are on separate lines that's potentially a maximum of 40 minutes of a great chance that the puck is in the Red Wings possession and not the opponent's. If Pav and Z are together, then you only have 20 minutes of that luxury.

That along with the fact that last year Babs could really spread out the talent and make teams think twice about their lines and matchups. However, we both saw against Anaheim that a team can have one incredibly dominant line and still hang with the Red Wings depth. For better or for worse Babs isn't a fan of changing his own mind but Franzen's injury might be the hockey Gods' way of telling Babs that you don't split up the cosmic out of this world force that is the euro twins.
Splitting them up has been a failure experience, not that they did not do too well or anything but the fact remains that they're more dangerous and dynamic together, also remember that they played against other team's top lines and were able to prevent big goals.

Next to these guys I would say Franzen and Filppula are the next best two, sadly one is gone but Flip is the next best in terms of puck position and puck control to the point if he had some scoring ability he would be almost at the same level as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, regardless to that he needs to be centering that second line, and once Helm is returned put him on a 3rd line with Abdelkader and things should be set.

Like I said, if the Wings are struggling in 20 games then hopefully Holland acts too early and trades for a top 6 forward, I'm not impressed with the additions of Bertuzzi, Williams, or Eaves, yes there's some potential there but this is not the best time to experiment exactly, not to mention Leino is still a wild card so we'll see what happens.

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Old
10-10-2009, 01:32 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
I'm not impressed with the additions of Bertuzzi, Williams, or Eaves, yes there's some potential there but this is not the best time to experiment exactly, not to mention Leino is still a wild card so we'll see what happens.
Well I think Cleary wants to prove he can do better than he did in 07-08 where he went 63-20-22-42. I'm expecting a lot from him now that Franzen is down.

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