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Franzen out 4 months with torn knee ligament

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Old
10-10-2009, 12:43 AM
  #101
Birko19
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
Well I think Cleary wants to prove he can do better than he did in 07-08 where he went 63-20-22-42. I'm expecting a lot from him now that Franzen is down.
Cleary is not bad indeed, on paper alone a top 6 of Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Homer and Filppula-Franzen-Cleary would be good enough imo (In fact this was a top 6 at one point when we won the cup I think), but that Franzen hole needs to be filled and I'm not convinced with guys like Bertuzzi or Williams, these guys are more suited to be third liners.

Right now Babcock needs to figure out the best line combos, putting Datsyuk and Zetterberg together is a good step but Homer seems to have lost a few steps from 2-3 years ago (Even though he's still the same old Homer on the powerplays), still, I'm hoping for a rebound year from him, that leaves Filppula and Cleary to play on the second line, perhaps adding Leino there should be a chance Babcock has to take, so far I like Leino's skill but I just don't think he's strong or big enough to handle the game, but then again it's only been 3 games and here's a hope he get's stronger as the season goes by.

That leaves us with Bertuzzi, Williams, Draper, Maltby, May, Eaves, along with Helm and Abdelkader, Helm should be a full-time player when he get's back soon (I remember we had the depth to put this kid on the 4th line but now he's good enough to be on the 3rd), Abdelkader needs to be up imo playing on the 4th line, his size and hard work is quite refreshing, the rest of the guys are either washed up or just a bunch of wild cards.

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10-10-2009, 08:00 AM
  #102
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H O R R I B LE news.

Just wanted to complain. This is going to be a tough season.

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10-10-2009, 11:08 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
Like I said, if the Wings are struggling in 20 games then hopefully Holland acts too early and trades for a top 6 forward, I'm not impressed with the additions of Bertuzzi, Williams, or Eaves, yes there's some potential there but this is not the best time to experiment exactly, not to mention Leino is still a wild card so we'll see what happens.
Well Bertuzzi I'll agree with because until he throws his body around a little and actually do something with that size offensively then its pointless to have a 6'4 teddy bear.

Williams IMHO isnt too bad so far. He's showed a willingness to take the puck to the net. While he's not as "physical" as Samuelsson, he has already been much improved on the point over Samuelsson.

Eaves is a tough one to judge so far so I guess all we can do is wait and see what he does from here on out. This might be the year he just tried to get a roster spot, while potentially maybe next year would be his true coming out party? (if hes around still). Who knows tho.

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10-10-2009, 12:22 PM
  #104
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This most definitely is terrible news, especially since I had Franzen in my fantasy pool

However, if there is one thing I believe about our red wings, is they can overcome adversity when they really need to, and I hope these next 4 months are once again proof of that.

With regards to babcock, I really do think he is an excellent coach and done great things for our team, but there is one aspect about him that I hope he himself can overcome, some of you may disagree, but I think his one major weakness is that he is stubborn. Like if he has a mindset on how something should be set up, he seems to really refuse to make a change on it because he is stubborn, or maybe just too proud i'm not too sure which one it is.

Anywho, I really hope he can overcome this stubbornness and just realize that we need to play Pav and Zetters together this season, no more of this depth ********. As someone already alluded too, Anaheim nearly took us and our depth out last playoffs by having one monster power line. When Datsyuk and Zetterberg play together they automatically become one of the top three lines in the nhl at any given day. I would rather have our first line be the best first line in the nhl than somewhere in the middle. Babcock I think should have some faith in the rest that of the players and realize they are good enough to be 2nd and 3rd liners without Pav and Z and still have solid depth. The other thing I would like Babcock to do, which is a real pet peeve of mine when I see it happen, is understand that the powerplay lines do not have to the even strength lines.

For most part, our 2 main pp lines have been Franzen Datsyuk Holmstrom and Cleary Zetter Bert,

It might actually be good for our team if Detroit loses the next 2 just to possibly force Babcock's hands into reuniting the eurotwins.

The lines I would like to see

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi

Bertuzzi has played like **** so far, but one thing I have noticed with Bertuzzi during his career is he can be quite streaky, perhaps if he can pot a few easy goals playing with the eurotwins he can go on a massive hot streak for us. From what I have seen his hands seem to still be there, but the effort doesn't yet, if he gets a few taps in due to eurotwin work the effort might increase as he gains confidence

Leino - Filppula - Cleary

Filppula and Cleary are both good enough defensively that this line should be able to hold its own against the majority of team's number 2 lines, plus they have pretty decent chemistry from the past, and leino and filppula also have decent chemistry, I think given an elevated role they might surprise us.

Williams - Helm (when he returns) - Eaves/Draper

Apparently Eaves is suppose to be decent defensively so i would like to observe for myself if that is the case. If not Draper can shift up there and help mentor Helm to becoming an elite checking like winger and not just an energy grinder guy

Matlby - Draper/Abdelkader - May/Holmstrom

I think that all of Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader (if he isn't sent back to the minors), May, Holmstrom, Eaves should see 20 or so games of press box time this season. If gator stays up we are then running 14 forwards 7 d and 2 goalies for the 23 man roster (it is suppose to be 23 right?)

However, on the powerplay, i hope babcock understands that you can change the lines, this is where

Zetterbery Datsyuk Holmstrom get reunited (especially since faceoff is in offensive end, holmstrom shouldn't really slow the play down in these instances)

Leino - Filppula - Cleary/Bertuzzi (whoever is playing better during the game should get the pp time)

I think these lines up are solid and should get us 45+ wins, I really hope babcock reunites the twins at least

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Old
10-10-2009, 12:28 PM
  #105
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You;ve just advocated a two-year lockout.
That's a joke, right? The players will fold wayyyyyy before then. They were in a much better financial position before and they still cracked first. Now there are quite a few owners out there who will actually probably do better financially if a season is whacked, and with the advent of the cap the 'middle class' of hockey players who made 4+ mil a year has been almost completely wiped out, meaning that a fairly large majority of the player body is going to be comprised of guys making 3 mil a year or less.

3 mil a year is a pretty big number, of course, but after taxes it's not necessarily an amount of money that most families accustomed to that level of earning power can afford to go without being paid for 24 months.

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10-10-2009, 12:31 PM
  #106
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We'll give you Jason Blake for an autographed picture of Steve Yzerman.

Personally autographed...

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10-10-2009, 12:53 PM
  #107
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This is bad, but other players will have to step up.

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10-10-2009, 02:18 PM
  #108
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It sucks that Franzen went down, and there's going to be an adjustment period, but it's also going to push some guys into bigger roles and allow the team to more freely experiment with its lineup. I think this is going to be a positive thing for the team down the line. Instead of centering the third line, Flip will center the second and stands a good shot at seeing more PP time. Abdelkader's already been re-called and will center the third line. When Helm gets back, he'll probably be getting more minutes than he would have gotten before.

Also, it could convince the team that it needs to focus more heavily on the defensive end of things. If it helps the team tighten down in their own zone, it'll be big.

Then, when Franzen hopefully gets back with a couple of weeks of the regular season left and is able to fine-tune for the playoffs, the team will be that much stronger for it.

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10-10-2009, 04:17 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Pavel needs someone with a desire to shoot the puck and get open. Franzen was the perfect man not named Hank.

CALL UP HAT TRICK DICK!!!!!!!
Why on earth not Tatar? Is there some obstacle in his contract from being brought up? Kid is an offense first player. Obviously still inexperienced and all, but hey, he gotta learn sometime. From what I've gathered he's pretty much leapfrogged the other prospects save for maybe Ritola in maturity...

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10-10-2009, 04:23 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by GuloGulo View Post
Why on earth not Tatar? Is there some obstacle in his contract from being brought up? Kid is an offense first player. Obviously still inexperienced and all, but hey, he gotta learn sometime. From what I've gathered he's pretty much leapfrogged the other prospects save for maybe Ritola in maturity...
Ask yourself; have the Wings ever played an 18-year old rookie on a regular basis during the entire course of a season during any recent season (think; 1999-2000 onwards)?

The Wings stance on player development always goes back to the term "overripe". Is Tatar at that point in his game yet? Maybe he is, but I highly doubt Holland and co. feel that way right now.

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10-10-2009, 04:50 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
It sucks that Franzen went down, and there's going to be an adjustment period, but it's also going to push some guys into bigger roles and allow the team to more freely experiment with its lineup. I think this is going to be a positive thing for the team down the line. Instead of centering the third line, Flip will center the second and stands a good shot at seeing more PP time. Abdelkader's already been re-called and will center the third line. When Helm gets back, he'll probably be getting more minutes than he would have gotten before.

Also, it could convince the team that it needs to focus more heavily on the defensive end of things. If it helps the team tighten down in their own zone, it'll be big.

Then, when Franzen hopefully gets back with a couple of weeks of the regular season left and is able to fine-tune for the playoffs, the team will be that much stronger for it.
Don't forget the whole salary aspect. Franzen being out for 4 months + only using replacements that cost an average of Eaves, May, Abdelkader's, Maltby, and Helm's salaries = 2.1M in nonprorated salary at the deadline.

Personally, I think too much is being made of this Franzen injury.

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10-10-2009, 05:07 PM
  #112
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looks like the league finally get detroit where they want them.
bettman will clap his hands.

good luck for the season, we will need it.

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10-10-2009, 05:59 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Don't forget the whole salary aspect. Franzen being out for 4 months + only using replacements that cost an average of Eaves, May, Abdelkader's, Maltby, and Helm's salaries = 2.1M in nonprorated salary at the deadline.

Personally, I think too much is being made of this Franzen injury.
Another good point. Having some cap cushion for some moves later on could be big for us.

I'm with you in not seeing this as a huge deal. It hurts but we have the depth to make up for it.

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10-10-2009, 11:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
That's a joke, right? The players will fold wayyyyyy before then. They were in a much better financial position before and they still cracked first. Now there are quite a few owners out there who will actually probably do better financially if a season is whacked, and with the advent of the cap the 'middle class' of hockey players who made 4+ mil a year has been almost completely wiped out, meaning that a fairly large majority of the player body is going to be comprised of guys making 3 mil a year or less.

3 mil a year is a pretty big number, of course, but after taxes it's not necessarily an amount of money that most families accustomed to that level of earning power can afford to go without being paid for 24 months.
No it's not a joke. If you think players in this sport, who risk injury every shift, are going to give up guaranteed contracts without a major fight, I think you're misreading the situation.

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10-11-2009, 10:39 AM
  #115
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No it's not a joke. If you think players in this sport, who risk injury every shift, are going to give up guaranteed contracts without a major fight, I think you're misreading the situation.
Where did I say they wouldn't fight, Tin?

I said they'd lose and cave way before they hit that silly 24 month prediction of yours.

I mean, have you been reading about the NHLPA lately? Does that group of people strike you as one that is really cohesive and 'all in it together'? Please.

And, by the way, don't pretend for a moment that a whole slew of players wouldn't simply sign one year deals in the KHL, further screwing those stuck over here and widening the divide between the haves and have-nots of the rank and file.

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10-11-2009, 11:58 AM
  #116
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Where did I say they wouldn't fight, Tin?

I said they'd lose and cave way before they hit that silly 24 month prediction of yours.

I mean, have you been reading about the NHLPA lately? Does that group of people strike you as one that is really cohesive and 'all in it together'? Please.

And, by the way, don't pretend for a moment that a whole slew of players wouldn't simply sign one year deals in the KHL, further screwing those stuck over here and widening the divide between the haves and have-nots of the rank and file.
If they went a year on a cap, they will go even longer on guaranteed contracts.

I bet the owners know this too. Which is why they won't even bring it up in a meaningful way.

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10-11-2009, 10:49 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
If they went a year on a cap, they will go even longer on guaranteed contracts.

I bet the owners know this too. Which is why they won't even bring it up in a meaningful way.
I think the owners also know it's a good threat, though. I'm hoping for a more creative solution that will fix more problems. Something like a league cap but floors that are individualized for each team depending on their money reports.

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10-12-2009, 07:03 AM
  #118
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If they went a year on a cap, they will go even longer on guaranteed contracts.
Again, I don't see how that would be financially possible for the significant majority of the rank and file. You have yet to explain how you think a two year absence of compensation is something players can weather.

The NHLPA went a year before giving the NHL pretty much every single thing the league expressed desire for. Granted, the NHL was idiotic about what they asked for and have since implemented a cap system with efficiency and foresight somewhere between Evander Holyfield and Corky from 'Life Goes On', but still.

Quote:
I bet the owners know this too. Which is why they won't even bring it up in a meaningful way.
Well, it depends how you parse 'meaningful way', I suppose. IMO the NHL is going to try and get contracts more towards what the NFL does, where only specific aspects of the deals are guaranteed, or where perhaps only a limited portion of long-term deals are guaranteed, or something along those lines.

I doubt the NHL would try and hold out for what would essentially be 'at will' contracts because there's no template for that kind of system in pro sports really, but the league could do something as simple as nudge the buyout rules a little bit and accomplish quite a lot.

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10-12-2009, 07:06 AM
  #119
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Something like a league cap but floors that are individualized for each team depending on their money reports.
That makes me a little nervous. It might be easier to just say 'if you want to qualify for revenue sharing you have to spend to whatever the cap floor is, but if you want to pass up the league bucks spend as little as you want'.

Then the NHL could leave the cap 'floor' the way it is, and distressed teams could get immediate relief from having to overspend their revenue base.

This might require and adjustment on how the revenue-sharing shares are determined, but I'd really rather not trust individual teams to report their financial situations accurately.

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10-12-2009, 08:50 AM
  #120
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That makes me a little nervous. It might be easier to just say 'if you want to qualify for revenue sharing you have to spend to whatever the cap floor is, but if you want to pass up the league bucks spend as little as you want'.

Then the NHL could leave the cap 'floor' the way it is, and distressed teams could get immediate relief from having to overspend their revenue base.

This might require and adjustment on how the revenue-sharing shares are determined, but I'd really rather not trust individual teams to report their financial situations accurately.
I'd be fine with that, too. Getting rid of guaranteed contracts seems like a red herring to me. It looks good, I can see how it could be enticing, but it's not something that will make up for stupid GMs and won't really "fix" anything. And I don't see a reason to make it easier on GMs to make up for being stupid. It just penalizes the well-run organizations.

Trying to find a way of customizing spending requirements to individual markets seems like more of a fix to me- however it's done. As long as Phoenix (for example, insert whatever team here) can control costs to a point where they can more readily control their losses/gains, it's a good thing. And most teams will probably spend at least to the midpoint just to appear competitive anyway, so I can't see salaries taking a big downturn.

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11-02-2009, 02:42 PM
  #121
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Franzen said to a Swedish newspaper recently, that he would be heart broken if he couldn't play in the olympics, so he hasn't given up yet.

He also said his operation went fine, but that he had to endure more pain than he though during his recouperation....is that the correct word?

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11-02-2009, 03:48 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Franzen said to a Swedish newspaper recently, that he would be heart broken if he couldn't play in the olympics, so he hasn't given up yet.

He also said his operation went fine, but that he had to endure more pain than he though during his recouperation....is that the correct word?
The rehab for ACL injuries is generally far worse than the surgery or even the original injury. I've walked a full ACL and Meniscus tear 3 miles down rough trail and they had almost no pain but the range of motion stuff post surgery had him screaming.

Its good that he has the Olympics to work towards , its hard to be excited about rehabbing but the better job you do with it the faster you'll come back.

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11-03-2009, 12:05 PM
  #123
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The rehab for ACL injuries is generally far worse than the surgery or even the original injury. I've walked a full ACL and Meniscus tear 3 miles down rough trail and they had almost no pain but the range of motion stuff post surgery had him screaming.

Its good that he has the Olympics to work towards , its hard to be excited about rehabbing but the better job you do with it the faster you'll come back.
I actually tore my ACL...if it is the same thing I'm thinking of, like 5 years back when my knee got bent the "wrong way" during a soccer game. No operation, so I don't have a working ACL....there's a front and back ACL, right? Or am I confusing it with something else? What does ACL stand for?

Anyway, when I tore it - I experienced the worst pain I have ever felt in my whole life - it was just horrible.

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11-04-2009, 12:44 AM
  #124
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I just had ACL replacement surgery today (Allograph) from what my doctor said its the same procedure that Franzen had. From what I'm reading in this thread rehab isn't sounding fun at all

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11-04-2009, 12:45 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
I actually tore my ACL...if it is the same thing I'm thinking of, like 5 years back when my knee got bent the "wrong way" during a soccer game. No operation, so I don't have a working ACL....there's a front and back ACL, right? Or am I confusing it with something else? What does ACL stand for?

Anyway, when I tore it - I experienced the worst pain I have ever felt in my whole life - it was just horrible.
Anterior Cruciate Ligament

I tore both that and my lateral meniscus about 5 years ago as well. Because I waited so long to get them repaired I will have to get knee replacement surgery when I'm older because there is joint problems in my knee now.

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