HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Arizona Coyotes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Blue Jackets @ Coyotes (10/10/09)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-12-2009, 02:38 PM
  #201
Sinurgy
Embrace Passion
 
Sinurgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 7,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
You're painting our home opener as a blown opportunity of monstrous proportions, etc.

In point of fact, outside of the die-hards who are picking apart the team's performance, it was a huge success.

We've had enough dire negativity to last us a decade over the past few months. Is it too much to ask for this fanbase to be positive about something for a change? Let the Canadian media throw asterisks at the WhiteOut all they want. Let WJF build a fallout shelter in his virtual backyard to protect himself from the inevitable collapse of his hockey world because of a shutout.

WE SOLD OUT THE BUILDING. WE HAD A WHITEOUT. THE ATMOSPHERE WAS ELECTRIC. PEOPLE HAD FUN. What is so bad about that?
It was a blown opportunity! The house was packed and the team played average at best and didn't manage a single score. How in the hell can you possibly call that positive?

This has nothing to do with the Canadian media or WJF. The simple fact is the Coyotes had an excellent opportunity to make a great impression on a lot of noob fans and they for the most part blew it. I'm not speaking from the standpoint of a die-hard fan dissecting the game because from that standpoint I can see plenty of positives but to your average Joe all they saw were fumbled passes and a big zero on the score board.

It's not the end of the hockey world of course and obviously I still have faith in the Yotes putting together a meaningful season but they had a great opportunity to help the franchise out and IMHO they did not seize that opportunity.

Sinurgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 02:55 PM
  #202
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
It was a blown opportunity! The house was packed and the team played average at best and didn't manage a single score. How in the hell can you possibly call that positive?

It's not the end of the hockey world of course and obviously I still have faith in the Yotes putting together a meaningful season but they had a great opportunity to help the franchise out and IMHO they did not seize that opportunity.
I tend to agree with this and the results will be hard to measure, but if attendance is not up at least a little bit then it was a blown opportunity at best. I can see all that hype and discount tickets as a loss leader, but that loss needs to lead to something. If the Coyotes had managed at least more scoring chances (not shots, I know they had plenty of weak shots) if not goals, it would have been more exciting. The fans need more than the excitement of opening night to want to make repeat appearances. They need the game to be exciting and opening night really wasn't a very exciting game.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 03:14 PM
  #203
SH1VERmeT1MBERS
Registered User
 
SH1VERmeT1MBERS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Surprise
Country: United States
Posts: 2,069
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
It was a blown opportunity! The house was packed and the team played average at best and didn't manage a single score. How in the hell can you possibly call that positive?

This has nothing to do with the Canadian media or WJF. The simple fact is the Coyotes had an excellent opportunity to make a great impression on a lot of noob fans and they for the most part blew it. I'm not speaking from the standpoint of a die-hard fan dissecting the game because from that standpoint I can see plenty of positives but to your average Joe all they saw were fumbled passes and a big zero on the score board.

It's not the end of the hockey world of course and obviously I still have faith in the Yotes putting together a meaningful season but they had a great opportunity to help the franchise out and IMHO they did not seize that opportunity.
I'm with you 100% This pretty is much all I could think about as I looked around the arena and watched as half of the fans in attendence sat on their hands. The casual fan around here doesn't know squat about hockey, as illustrated by all of the calls to "SHOOT". These fans need a few goals, some big hits, and a fight or two to get them fired up. I think the players know this, they just failed to deliver.

SH1VERmeT1MBERS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 03:45 PM
  #204
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
It was a blown opportunity! The house was packed and the team played average at best and didn't manage a single score. How in the hell can you possibly call that positive?
No loss is a positive. But I am completely stymied by the fact that you could possibly see the WhiteOut as a negative. That's the best atmosphere Jobing.com Arena has EVER had for a 60-minute hockey game. The "noob fans" you speak of aren't going to remember the final score. They'll remember the event - the same way everyone who went to a WhiteOut in the late '90s does. I don't know of a single person who speaks of the previous WhiteOuts as "blown opportunities."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I'm not speaking from the standpoint of a die-hard fan dissecting the game because from that standpoint I can see plenty of positives but to your average Joe all they saw were fumbled passes and a big zero on the score board.
If you're right (and I'm definitely not saying that you are), then this team needs to move to Canada. Now. ASAP. Because if this team can't attract the kind of fan that appreciates the atmosphere of ice hockey regardless of the score, this team is a goner no matter how many wins they rack up this year.

Oh, and by the way - I had eight "average Joes" in attendance with me. ALL of them had a blast even with the shutout. I should also add that one of the "average Joes" had been to a game last year and he spent the whole game commenting on how much better the Coyotes appeared to be this season.


Last edited by zyllyx: 10-12-2009 at 04:18 PM.
zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 04:50 PM
  #205
Sinurgy
Embrace Passion
 
Sinurgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 7,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
No loss is a positive. But I am completely stymied by the fact that you could possibly see the WhiteOut as a negative. That's the best atmosphere Jobing.com Arena has EVER had for a 60-minute hockey game. The "noob fans" you speak of aren't going to remember the final score. They'll remember the event - the same way everyone who went to a WhiteOut in the late '90s does. I don't know of a single person who speaks of the previous WhiteOuts as "blown opportunities."
I think you need to relax with all the "WhiteOut" talk. It was cool and had the players actually responded, could have been very cool but to put it in the same category as an actual playoff WhiteOut is just downright silly. Playoff WhiteOut >>>>>>>>>>>> Faux WhiteOut

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
If you're right (and I'm definitely not saying that you are), then this team needs to move to Canada. Now. ASAP. Because if this team can't attract the kind of fan that appreciates the atmosphere of ice hockey regardless of the score, this team is a goner no matter how many wins they rack up this year.

Oh, and by the way - I had eight "average Joes" in attendance with me. ALL of them had a blast even with the shutout.
Now you're just being downright dramatic. As I said before, you can spin it how you like but the Yotes had an opportunity to make a great impression and they failed to seize that opportunity.

Sinurgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:12 PM
  #206
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I think you need to relax with all the "WhiteOut" talk.
And I think you need to relax with the Chicken Little attitude. Think we'll be able to reconcile our two viewpoints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
As I said before, you can spin it how you like but the Yotes had an opportunity to make a great impression and they failed to seize that opportunity.
You can spin it how you like, but this loss was no worse than any other we'll have during the season, and I guarantee you we'll have at least a handful of games where we'll look a whole lot worse than we did against Columbus.

And call me dramatic if you like, but I'll reiterate: if this team can't draw and keep fans by virtue of the game atmosphere, then honestly the team ought to be moved somewhere where they are appreciated by "average Joes." The whole theory behind fighting to keep the team here - apart from keeping Balsillie from getting a team outside of the NHL's bylaws and procedures - is the belief that this market has the potential to grow and be a healthy (if non-traditional) hockey market. If, indeed, you are correct and a shutout loss in the home opener is critical enough that it will turn people off from coming to more games, then that theory is disproven.

Ice hockey is a game that translates best by being seen live. The visceral impact of the game transcends the boxscore. A packed house and electric atmosphere goes further towards promoting the sport among the casual fans than a simple game victory (see: WNBA). You cannot totally negate the impact of the WhiteOut, therefore, simply because the team lost.


Last edited by zyllyx: 10-12-2009 at 05:25 PM.
zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:31 PM
  #207
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
And I think you need to relax with the Chicken Little attitude. Think we'll be able to reconcile our two viewpoints?
Seeing that an opportunity was missed and saying the sky is falling are not the same thing. You seem to be blowing his argument out of proportion in order to argue it. I don't see anyone saying the sky is falling (although I do have a particular poster on ignore).

An opportunity was missed to show the fans the fast, counter attack excitement that the team has shown in the first two games of the season. They did not do it. The house was packed. It was a missed opportunity.

That does not mean there will not be other opportunities. It does not mean the team cannot still find ways to draw fans. That does not mean that anyone thinks those potential fans are lost forever. It does mean the opportunity to do it right off the bat to a large number of potential new fans was missed. The team and the team's marketing department are going to have to work harder than they might have had to work if this opportunity had been better taken advantage of.

There will be many other, smaller opportunities. They just likely won't be as big any time in the near future. It's a shame they could not take complete advantage.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:32 PM
  #208
Sinurgy
Embrace Passion
 
Sinurgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 7,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
And I think you need to relax with the Chicken Little attitude. Think we'll be able to reconcile our two viewpoints?
I'm hardly displaying a chicken little attitude. Perhaps you should go back read MY posts because I think you have me mixed up with others. I'm merely being realistic and that includes acknowledging the negatives of the night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
You can spin it how you like, but this loss was no worse than any other we'll have during the season, and I guarantee you we'll have at least a handful of games where we'll look a whole lot worse than we did against Columbus.
Considering all that happened in the off season, the big WhiteOut promotion, the cheap tickets and the sell out only to put up a goose egg on opening night? I definitely think it will be considered one of the worst losses of the season from a business standpoint. As far as the season goes, of course it's not and yes there will be some games (hopefully not many) where the team will get blown out. However, it'll likely be only us die-hards watching those games. Unless it's like last year where they seemed to make a habit of getting blown out on the weekends in front of big crowds.

Sinurgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:38 PM
  #209
Sinurgy
Embrace Passion
 
Sinurgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 7,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Seeing that an opportunity was missed and saying the sky is falling are not the same thing. You seem to be blowing his argument out of proportion in order to argue it. I don't see anyone saying the sky is falling (although I do have a particular poster on ignore).

An opportunity was missed to show the fans the fast, counter attack excitement that the team has shown in the first two games of the season. They did not do it. The house was packed. It was a missed opportunity.

That does not mean there will not be other opportunities. It does not mean the team cannot still find ways to draw fans. That does not mean that anyone thinks those potential fans are lost forever. It does mean the opportunity to do it right off the bat to a large number of potential new fans was missed. The team and the team's marketing department are going to have to work harder than they might have had to work if this opportunity had been better taken advantage of.

There will be many other, smaller opportunities. They just likely won't be as big any time in the near future. It's a shame they could not take complete advantage.
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

Sinurgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:40 PM
  #210
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
There is one thing this game and the Buffalo game had in common which I hope the coaching staff is working on.

The Coyotes in the first two games did a good job of trapping, forcing turnovers and mounting a quick counterattack against teams that like to carry the puck into the zone and maintain possession. In the next two games the Coyotes ran into teams that play the same game.

The interesting thing is that while the Coyotes are good at executing the neutral zone strategy they employ, they are terrible playing against it. I'm not much for dump and chase hockey as Plan A, but they need to learn how to do it effectively to either beat the trap or to take trap teams off of their game. Maybe not even dump and chase, but they need a transition plan for beating a system they seem to already understand.

Every team scouts opponents. Most teams have some form of the trap near the top of their transition defense playbook. If the Coyotes do not figure out a way to at least look respectable playing against trap and collapse teams it is going to be a very long season.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:44 PM
  #211
zz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,661
vCash: 500
Yes, it was a missed opportunity. Of course everyone would have been better off with a win, or at least one goal (there's a reason soccer isn't popular around here!!!).

But I and others around me didn't feel cheated by the team. I didn't think we sucked. I saw nerves in the first and a real effort in the third. No-one in the sections around me booed the team out of the ice. Everyone stayed until the last minute.

It felt like a disheartening playoff lost. I was really bummed coming out of it, but I was very glad to have attended it. I hope other fans felt the same way.

zz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 05:53 PM
  #212
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I'm hardly displaying a chicken little attitude.
My issue is that I can't reconcile this ^^^^ with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Considering all that happened in the off season, the big WhiteOut promotion, the cheap tickets and the sell out only to put up a goose egg on opening night? I definitely think it will be considered one of the worst losses of the season from a business standpoint.
I just can't fathom why you think this one game is going to turn potential fans off in droves.

A missed opportunity? I guess, like any loss is a missed opportunity. But it seems to me that you believe that the WhiteOut was worthless without a win. Am I wrong in that interpretation of your position?

If we had gotten blown out - I mean, if we had played as badly as we did under Gretzky - then I'd be far more inclined to agree with you. But even with the poor PP we were in that game until less than 30 seconds to go in the third period. It was a tense, hard-fought game and I think anyone who was new to hockey would have gotten a thrill out of it even though we didn't ultimately win.


Last edited by zyllyx: 10-12-2009 at 06:13 PM.
zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 06:29 PM
  #213
Sindiggy
Go Desert Dogs
 
Sindiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,563
vCash: 500
Fellas...I think we need to boil it down to the following (hopefully) true statements.

The "White Out", while no-where near a true "Playoff White Out", it was a great way to start the season, and it did create energy and buzz in and around Jobing.com and I think in that way it was a win for the organization.

Did the yotes miss an opportunity to capture more fans, yes, everyone likes to see a winner, but just the experience had to resinate with a few casual fans to bring them back.

It certainly wasn't an all out disgraceful display of hockey...we did get 36 SOG, which in the past 4 years, we'd be hard pressed to reach the 30 SOG mark, and our boys were certainly nervous and clinching the twigs way too tight, the result being about 25 shots that went wide. But we carried the play most of the game, we just didn't have anyone who could put it past the goalie...that happens.

anyway...my 2 cents worth.

Sindiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 08:01 PM
  #214
Sinurgy
Embrace Passion
 
Sinurgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 7,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
My issue is that I can't reconcile this ^^^^ with this:



I just can't fathom why you think this one game is going to turn potential fans off in droves.

A missed opportunity? I guess, like any loss is a missed opportunity. But it seems to me that you believe that the WhiteOut was worthless without a win. Am I wrong in that interpretation of your position?

If we had gotten blown out - I mean, if we had played as badly as we did under Gretzky - then I'd be far more inclined to agree with you. But even with the poor PP we were in that game until less than 30 seconds to go in the third period. It was a tense, hard-fought game and I think anyone who was new to hockey would have gotten a thrill out of it even though we didn't ultimately win.
Sorry but I feel like at this point you're being deliberately obtuse. If my prior attempts at explaining myself didn't work, subsequent attempts will certainly fail as well. If you think the Coyotes seized the opportunity on opening night, more power to you.

Sinurgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 08:13 PM
  #215
Colt45Blast
is in your head
 
Colt45Blast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: everytime
Country: Mexico
Posts: 25,402
vCash: 500
Guys! Not to sound like a dick here but, ITS OVER!

Let it go! Everyone who attended the home opener is going to have a different view point and no one is going to change their mind from it!

Please! Let's just enjoy the rest of the 78 games we have remaining in the season!

Tonight is another critical game and divisional rival we can tie in points with a win.
Posted via Mobile Device

Colt45Blast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2009, 08:47 PM
  #216
zyllyx
STH Hipster
 
zyllyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Peoria
Country: United States
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Sorry but I feel like at this point you're being deliberately obtuse. If my prior attempts at explaining myself didn't work, subsequent attempts will certainly fail as well. If you think the Coyotes seized the opportunity on opening night, more power to you.
The Coyotes PLAYERS didn't seize the opportunity, but the Coyotes FRANCHISE certainly did. Can we at least agree on that?

And don't say you're sorry unless you really mean it.

zyllyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.