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Old
10-10-2009, 05:17 PM
  #51
coolasprICE
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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
It's all about potential and the possibility to grow the game , more from an economic standpoint than a hockey one.
Growth wont' be as significant in Canada as it could be in Phoenix.
It's a small fish in a big pond but at least it has a change to grow. A big fish in a small pond as nowhere to go.

I'm not saying I totally agree but I can understand the business reasoning behind it.



How many "more" people that don't already watch hockey will watch if there's a team in Quebec.

The potential you talk about in the u.s markets was answered over the past decade or two, as these exact markets, by and large, rejected the game of hockey. To make matters worse, the recession in non-hockey markets has contributed to the disaster.

Please don't bring up teams from California, where hockey is not a new phenomenon and should not be compared to markets like Phoenix. Phoenix is not a hockey market, and it will never have a big enough support to justify it over Quebec city, Hamilton or Winnipeg.

There is no doubt that they can fill the seats in Quebec in both good times and bad, what I would be concerned with is the ability to sell premium seating and boxes to the business community at a high enough price.

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10-10-2009, 05:40 PM
  #52
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It would be good for hockey if they can prosper, great if we can weed out any fake, defect fans.

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10-10-2009, 05:50 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Azzurri2006 View Post
It would be good for hockey if they can prosper, great if we can weed out any fake, defect fans.
Here !

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10-10-2009, 05:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Natural Habs Fan View Post
Who would get moved out of the NE if Quebec got a 2nd team?

I think this would be great.
Boston goes Atlantic and one of Pittsburgh/Philly goes Southeast (if a team comes from the Eastern conference, i'm thinking TB, Florida or Atl). Probably Philly as they are a little further South.

If it comes from the West, i think the only logical explanation is have the Leafs go back West... since thats where they we're before. Although the Leafs probably have the most pull with the NHL then any other team, it could end up being Buffalo getting the short end of the stick if they think a conference move would dip too far into their pocket books.

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10-10-2009, 05:55 PM
  #55
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This would be awesome just to be able to get rid of the poser fans and let the French media rip into them instead.

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10-10-2009, 05:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
It's all about potential and the possibility to grow the game , more from an economic standpoint than a hockey one.
Growth wont' be as significant in Canada as it could be in Phoenix.
It's a small fish in a big pond but at least it has a change to grow. A big fish in a small pond as nowhere to go.

I'm not saying I totally agree but I can understand the business reasoning behind it.



How many "more" people that don't already watch hockey will watch if there's a team in Quebec.
I agree, but from my standpoint, Phoenix can grow exponentially in terms of Hockey audience. But the maximum growth is probably not even as big as the maximum viewership in Quebec.
Sure the Nordiques, or whoever comes to Quebec won't get any new fans, but half the province lives outside of Montreal, and many Habs fans would watch Quebec play. Besides, like it or not, it would become the team of Separatistes, because Quebec = capital of French, Montreal = English (at least more diverse) and the Nordiques would become a political subject instead of the Habs being the "Équipe National"

Quebec has no major teams, phoenix has the D'Backs, the Cardinals both teams who have been successful in the past few years so they take a lot of the attention.
Phoenix is a bigger market, but not a hockey one.

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10-10-2009, 06:18 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
The potential you talk about in the u.s markets was answered over the past decade or two, as these exact markets, by and large, rejected the game of hockey. To make matters worse, the recession in non-hockey markets has contributed to the disaster.

Please don't bring up teams from California, where hockey is not a new phenomenon and should not be compared to markets like Phoenix. Phoenix is not a hockey market, and it will never have a big enough support to justify it over Quebec city, Hamilton or Winnipeg.

There is no doubt that they can fill the seats in Quebec in both good times and bad, what I would be concerned with is the ability to sell premium seating and boxes to the business community at a high enough price.
I would never say never, they never really had the chance to have a winning team wich could help spark up interest. My point remains that every fan in Phoenix is a new fan while interest in Canada has nowhere to go really.
Filling an arena in canada is no risk =little reward. Making it big in the U.S. is alot more risk = high reward.

Bettman isn't looking out for one single franchise and what's best for an owner he has to worry about the growth of the league as a whole. Like I said, agree or not with that point of view there is logic behind it.

A new arena would take about 2-3 years to build anyway so alot of things can happen between now and then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenYoung View Post
I agree, but from my standpoint, Phoenix can grow exponentially in terms of Hockey audience. But the maximum growth is probably not even as big as the maximum viewership in Quebec.
Phoenix is one of the biggest TV market in the United States. Viewership in the whole province of Quebec would be barely noticeable, interest may be higher but that wouldn't translate in a significant quantity of viewers. Quebec (the province) is a very small market TV wise.


Last edited by sXe: 10-10-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old
10-10-2009, 06:24 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe View Post
I would never say never, they never really had the chance to have a winning team wich could help spark up interest. My point remains that every fan in Phoenix is a new fan while interest in Canada has nowhere to go really.
Filling an arena in canada is no risk =little reward. Making it big in the U.S. is alot more risk = high reward.


Bettman isn't looking out for one single franchise and what's best for an owner he has to worry about the growth of the league as a whole. Like I said, agree or not with that point of view there is logic behind it.

A new arena would take about 2-3 years to build anyway so alot of things can happen between now and then.
Not 100% accurate.

Phoenix is one of the most rapidly growing urban areas in North American and has been for sometime, it's also a huge draw for snowbirds (Canadians, or close to the border Americans) being that real estate in Florida has gotten insane. There is alot of relocated Canadians in Phoenix.

If Calgary/Edmonton can be amongst the top 15 earners in this league, no doubt Quebec can be there too.

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10-10-2009, 06:39 PM
  #59
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No one seems to be mentioning who in Quebec would be willing to put up all the money to buy an existing franchise and build a new arena. Has anyone come forward suggesting they would be interested ?

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Old
10-10-2009, 06:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by galiano View Post
No one seems to be mentioning who in Quebec would be willing to put up all the money to buy an existing franchise and build a new arena. Has anyone come forward suggesting they would be interested ?
Yes. Québécor, Remstar, Aubut and there are rumours about Red Bull.

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10-10-2009, 06:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by habspinner View Post
Can you imagine the ire of Hamilton fans if Phoenix was moved to Quebec City of all places!

Doubtful that would happen though, Penguin seems intent on getting a team in that bastion of hockey, Kansas City.
It's not like Hamilton is in a position to *****, at least Quebec once had a team

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10-10-2009, 06:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
This would be awesome just to be able to get rid of the poser fans and let the French media rip into them instead.
Oh, le evil french media !

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
It's not like Hamilton is in a position to *****, at least Quebec once had a team
LOL, indeed,,, Hamilton wtf...

3rd team in Ontario ? Nuh uh.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-11-2009 at 01:14 PM.
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Old
10-10-2009, 07:04 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
Most of the negative journalism surrounding this team is generated by the french media. Much of the controversy with the team has been language based. Their is a blatant bias by some journalists in Quebec towards having franco players and pressuring management to sign and draft franco players.

There has always been pressure of this type in montreal, and there always will be. A team in Quebec will take some of the more vehement reporters with regard to language away from the habs. Quebec City is more likely to draw the "separatist" hockey fan. Montreal has always been seen as the more multicultural and "Anglo" city. Pequiste journalists would naturally invest more resources to the Quebec team.
That's the most ridiculous post ever. Trying to mix politics and sports is rarely a good idea. And in case you don't know, the Quebec City area is voting for conservatives and ADQ. Not many "péquiste" and "separatist" out there....

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10-10-2009, 07:15 PM
  #64
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Obviously the guy ain't never been to Quebec city. lol.

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Old
10-10-2009, 07:27 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe View Post
I would never say never, they never really had the chance to have a winning team wich could help spark up interest. My point remains that every fan in Phoenix is a new fan while interest in Canada has nowhere to go really.
Filling an arena in canada is no risk =little reward. Making it big in the U.S. is alot more risk = high reward.

Bettman isn't looking out for one single franchise and what's best for an owner he has to worry about the growth of the league as a whole. Like I said, agree or not with that point of view there is logic behind it.

A new arena would take about 2-3 years to build anyway so alot of things can happen between now and then.



Phoenix is one of the biggest TV market in the United States. Viewership in the whole province of Quebec would be barely noticeable, interest may be higher but that wouldn't translate in a significant quantity of viewers. Quebec (the province) is a very small market TV wise.
Quebec as a province is 7 million, and the greater montreal area is 3.6 million. Figure the Quebec city population and surrounding regions, in which they intend to target ticket sales to, is easily over 1 million (very easily). That's not including a significant population (and business) who'll support both teams. I"m not sure where you are from, but Hockey is literally everything - any other sport is a distant 2nd in Quebec, and most of Canada.

Lastly, since hockey is part of our history and culture, that 1 million is really very close to 1 million hockey market size, vs an american market with no roots to the game... you would need 10 million (if not more) to have any chance to equate the real market size of that in Quebec. As for "if they had a chance to win " argument - sorry but you can't make business decisions in sports basing it on "if" a given market will win it all or not.

That is why you don't see sports like cricket, or rugby, which are huge in certain markets, and virtually non-existent in other markets (or countries). You just can't sell sport with the same approach as you would with, say, selling computers in an untapped market in Africa (or any other example)....

The only way to develop a major league sport in an undeveloped market is to do it slowly, in time.. start with the kids, the little leagues, let the culture ingrain itself naturally. That's what the NHL should of done before throwing franchises into non-hockey markets.

As for your risk-reward argument, well yes, the potential was thought to be there...
I guess the risks were understated.

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Old
10-10-2009, 08:13 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Habs Fan View Post
Who would get moved out of the NE if Quebec got a 2nd team?

I think this would be great.
Buffalo could easily be moved to the Central division... if Nashville moves to QC!

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10-10-2009, 09:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by sukimono View Post
LOL, indeed,,, Hamilton wtf...

3rd team in Ontario ? Nuh uh.
Quebec had a team and lost it. Hamilton hasn't lost a team yet, so there's one for them. So, before you go laughing, just remember, the Nordiques failed in Quebec. The GTA is the most densely populated area in Canada. Not only that, but Toronto fans would be able to see their team even more, so they're more likely to constantly sell out than a team in Quebec. The same can be said about fans being able to see Montréal more in Quebec, but Toronto has sucked and still sells out, when Montréal sucked they weren't selling out.

If it's via expansion, then this is a very terrible idea. If it's through re-location, then it's good.

It was just talked about on CBC and apparently they -HAVE- to get a new arena first, or else there's no discussion. La Colisée is no acceptable which is why Winnipeg was more talked about getting a team than Quebec.

Also, whomever buys the NHL team has to have enough financial backing.

So it will probably be a while before this is even discussed seriously. In the mean time, Islanders and the Coyotes are playing well and could attract fans back.

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10-10-2009, 09:24 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Quebec had a team and lost it. Hamilton hasn't lost a team yet, so there's one for them. So, before you go laughing, just remember, the Nordiques failed in Quebec. The GTA is the most densely populated area in Canada. Not only that, but Toronto fans would be able to see their team even more, so they're more likely to constantly sell out than a team in Quebec. The same can be said about fans being able to see Montréal more in Quebec, but Toronto has sucked and still sells out, when Montréal sucked they weren't selling out.

If it's via expansion, then this is a very terrible idea. If it's through re-location, then it's good.

It was just talked about on CBC and apparently they -HAVE- to get a new arena first, or else there's no discussion. La Colisée is no acceptable which is why Winnipeg was more talked about getting a team than Quebec.

Also, whomever buys the NHL team has to have enough financial backing.

So it will probably be a while before this is even discussed seriously. In the mean time, Islanders and the Coyotes are playing well and could attract fans back.
I think Hamilton actually had a team in the 20s called the Hamilton Tigers

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10-10-2009, 09:27 PM
  #69
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La Colisée is no acceptable which is why Winnipeg was more talked about getting a team than Quebec.
Le colisée

And i agree, it obviously takes a new building in Québec. And i'm hopeful that there will be a new building. So yeah, it's not for tomorrow. But while Winnipeg may have an edge on us right now they better make it happend soon or Québec might very well create a surprise... anyways i hope for the best in both Winnipeg and QC cases. As for Hamilton for me it's laughable. Get in line.

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10-10-2009, 09:28 PM
  #70
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Quebec had a team and lost it. Hamilton hasn't lost a team yet, so there's one for them. So, before you go laughing, just remember, the Nordiques failed in Quebec. The GTA is the most densely populated area in Canada. Not only that, but Toronto fans would be able to see their team even more, so they're more likely to constantly sell out than a team in Quebec. The same can be said about fans being able to see Montréal more in Quebec, but Toronto has sucked and still sells out, when Montréal sucked they weren't selling out.

If it's via expansion, then this is a very terrible idea. If it's through re-location, then it's good.

It was just talked about on CBC and apparently they -HAVE- to get a new arena first, or else there's no discussion. La Colisée is no acceptable which is why Winnipeg was more talked about getting a team than Quebec.

Also, whomever buys the NHL team has to have enough financial backing.

So it will probably be a while before this is even discussed seriously. In the mean time, Islanders and the Coyotes are playing well and could attract fans back.
Yes they had a team and lost it, so did Denver and Minneapolis didnt stop the league from going back.

Of course they have to get a new arena , no one is talking about having a team there next year, this week they will simply announce that they are going ahead with a new building and the mayor met with Gary&co yesterday to get the nhl's point of view

Hamilton is a great market better than quebec city for sure but it is in the leafs/sabres territory and will means a ton of lawsuit/headaches for the league.

Theres already lots of people interessed in buying a team( if theres one for sale who know?) and its easy to speculate that even more will be if they get a free brand new building from the city/government.

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10-10-2009, 10:11 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bermy View Post
I think Hamilton actually had a team in the 20s called the Hamilton Tigers
Now that you mention it, the name sounds familar (not in reference to the football team)

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Originally Posted by sukimono View Post
Le colisée

And i agree, it obviously takes a new building in Québec. And i'm hopeful that there will be a new building. So yeah, it's not for tomorrow. But while Winnipeg may have an edge on us right now they better make it happend soon or Québec might very well create a surprise... anyways i hope for the best in both Winnipeg and QC cases. As for Hamilton for me it's laughable. Get in line.
The hell is the point of the 2nd 'e' if it's not feminine ? Confusing ass French.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
Yes they had a team and lost it, so did Denver and Minneapolis didnt stop the league from going back.

Of course they have to get a new arena , no one is talking about having a team there next year, this week they will simply announce that they are going ahead with a new building and the mayor met with Gary&co yesterday to get the nhl's point of view

Hamilton is a great market better than quebec city for sure but it is in the leafs/sabres territory and will means a ton of lawsuit/headaches for the league.

Theres already lots of people interessed in buying a team( if theres one for sale who know?) and its easy to speculate that even more will be if they get a free brand new building from the city/government.
I think the NHL is more willing to expand, or relocate teams to the states because it would really help out the NHL financially. The fact that the Atlanta Flames moving to Calgary is the only time an american team moved to Canada is an odd thing and might be an indication.

As for groups interested, Quebecor obviously, but a lot of people here despise that company. I don't know if there's reason, or they just don't think they have the best interest for the habs, but if so many people dislike them, can they really be a good groub ?

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10-10-2009, 10:21 PM
  #72
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Wow...

I'm getting a glimps of the same kind of rush we used to get, what an incredible time that was.

I wonder which team will be transfered. Everyone will think of Phoenix at first but I'm sure teams like TB could use a change of scenery. Imagine that.

Hopefully it comes true, no matter which team.

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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Now that you mention it, the name sounds familar (not in reference to the football team)



The hell is the point of the 2nd 'e' if it's not feminine ? Confusing ass French.



I think the NHL is more willing to expand, or relocate teams to the states because it would really help out the NHL financially. The fact that the Atlanta Flames moving to Calgary is the only time an american team moved to Canada is an odd thing and might be an indication.

As for groups interested, Quebecor obviously, but a lot of people here despise that company. I don't know if there's reason, or they just don't think they have the best interest for the habs, but if so many people dislike them, can they really be a good groub ?
Well if Marcel Aubut is envolved I would guess that he is trying to make a pass before Quebecor can move. I don't see why he would be meeting Bettman only because of an arena...


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-11-2009 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Merge
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10-10-2009, 10:29 PM
  #73
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Aubut said when he sold the team that with no salary cap, a team in Quebec was impossible. Now there's a salary cap making the viability of a team possible though.....at that time, their salaries amounted to a whopping....15 millions. So something tells me that while a cap makes it possible, I do not see the day where they'll be able to not impose to themselves their own salary cap. Will the people be willing to pay so much more money for tickets? How about companies?

Again, while I definately agree that the might accept it, I don't see them competing, money wise, around the same amounts that the Habs and others are doing. They might not have a trouble to reach the minimum, but the limit? I'm not so sure.

But as far as going to a place who will love their team and be behind it. They will.

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10-11-2009, 03:01 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
If you think it's tough to attract UFA's to Montreal...

Could only imagine QC
There's far less pressure in Québec. The quality of life is said to be one of the best in the province.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I know a lot of people in Quebec City that are dieing to have a team there. Hell, even my wife and I plan to take monthly trips down to Quebec City just to spend the weekend there and catch a game.

Support is not an issue. The issue is if the Nordiques don't perform up to their expectations, will people still go?
Maybe you forget the 5 consecutive years in the league basement? The arena was still full every games.

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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
Not only that but from an hockey standpoint it doesn't help to "grow" the game. Hockey will sell in Canada regardless.

From a business standpoint, there's really no difference between a team in Phoenix or Quebec, they both are small markets that may have trouble meeting the cap floor and will need revenue sharing to survive.
The difference is the with Phoenix you have a huge (one of the biggest ) tv market that could help grow the game and the revenues of the NHL.

You also have to remember what Bettman did to save many canadian franchises when the dollar wasn't as strong. It would be a (huge) risk to allow more canadian franchises when the dollar is this strong and hope it never goes down...
There will never have any significant growth in the south period. Bettman's plan has been a failiure. He has tried to get a solid national tv deal and it has never happened. And never will. It's better to strenghten your base and go to places that will make money for the NHL in the present time in Canada. The NHL survive right now on Canadian money.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-11-2009 at 01:19 PM. Reason: Merge
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10-11-2009, 06:20 AM
  #75
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Okay, IF Hamilton gets the Coyotes and Quebec gets the Islanders (with Red Bull help, kudos to Labeaume on that one), what would be the divisions?

West

Pacific
Anaheim
Dallas
Los Angeles
San Jose
Colorado?

Central
Chicago
Columbus
Detroit
Nashville
St-Louis

Northwest
Calgary
Edmonton
Minnesota
Vancouver
Buffalo?

East

Atlantic
Philadelpiha
New York
Pittsburgh
New Jersey
Boston?

Southeast
Atlanta
Carolina
Florida
Washington
Tampa Bay

Northeast
Montreal
Hamilton?
Ottawa
Quebec? (obvious)
Toronto?

The problem is that you have to keep tradition and location-based rivalries, how do you make with Buffalo, Hamilton and Toronto being next to each other but in different conferences? You have to pick at least Toronto or Boston to be in a separate division or conference from Montreal, and rivalries sell tickets (ok maybe not here). What do you think of my lineup? Of course this is only speculation, but would it be ok? I know, transfer to Hamilton is not done yet; same for Islanders transfer (could be a couple other teams).

Solution: Send the Sens to Saskatoon or Regina (just kidding of course)

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