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Old
10-13-2009, 07:38 AM
  #1
orcatown
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DesBiens Back Down

I guess this is cap related. Maybe someone else coming up??

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/co...81281-sun.html

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10-13-2009, 07:46 AM
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Probably Blizzy (Bliznak).

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10-13-2009, 09:17 AM
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Maybe they'll bring up someone who can actually kill penalties...

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10-13-2009, 09:59 AM
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Maybe they'll bring up someone who can actually kill penalties...
Nah. AV will simply stick with Johnson and Rypien. They've been doing a great job so far.

I would really like to see him use Henrik a lot more on the PK. He's starting to use him for face off reasons but for the next few weeks I think Henrik should be in the 22 minutes a night range.

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10-13-2009, 10:14 AM
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Nah. AV will simply stick with Johnson and Rypien. They've been doing a great job so far.

I would really like to see him use Henrik a lot more on the PK. He's starting to use him for face off reasons but for the next few weeks I think Henrik should be in the 22 minutes a night range.
it's a problem when you only have a few guys that can kill penalties, and the main guys you rely on to fill that role (Johnson in this case) are just having a brutal season.

The problem with giving Henrik too much PK time is that it will eat away from time he gets on ES and/or PP - which he's needed more on, as you don't want to give many minutes right now to either your 3rd or 4th line... but seeing as how our 4th line guys are just brutal right now - Hordichuk has been by far the best player on that 4th line this season! - you need to look at other options.

Kesler-Burrows is a given as your top PK unit... I would use Raymond-Bernier as the #2 unit (when not having to take any draws), then throw in Henrik-Samuelsson as your #3 unit, out when you need to take a draw and Kesler isn't available.

Johnson has been terrible not only on the PK, but also in the faceoff circle, which is key in every PK. And Wellwood is just not the type of player you want killing penalties, while the rest of the lineup belongs in the AHL. I hope Gillis is able to upgrade this bottom 6 before the end of the season - and it should be easier replacing a couple of 4th liners than it would be to plug bigger holes in your top 6 or top 4 defense. Once Hansen is back (along with Daniel and Demitra) our 3rd line should be fine... but we need a strong defensive presence down the middle on the 4th unit (especially with Wellwood centering the other bottom 6 line), and Johnson was supposed to be that guy - but he's just failing miserably right now.

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10-13-2009, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Maybe they'll bring up someone who can actually kill penalties...
Maybe Bliznak or possibley Labrie.But I want Shirokov or Grabner to be called up.

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Old
10-13-2009, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
it's a problem when you only have a few guys that can kill penalties, and the main guys you rely on to fill that role (Johnson in this case) are just having a brutal season.

The problem with giving Henrik too much PK time is that it will eat away from time he gets on ES and/or PP - which he's needed more on, as you don't want to give many minutes right now to either your 3rd or 4th line... but seeing as how our 4th line guys are just brutal right now - Hordichuk has been by far the best player on that 4th line this season! - you need to look at other options.

Kesler-Burrows is a given as your top PK unit... I would use Raymond-Bernier as the #2 unit (when not having to take any draws), then throw in Henrik-Samuelsson as your #3 unit, out when you need to take a draw and Kesler isn't available.

Johnson has been terrible not only on the PK, but also in the faceoff circle, which is key in every PK. And Wellwood is just not the type of player you want killing penalties, while the rest of the lineup belongs in the AHL. I hope Gillis is able to upgrade this bottom 6 before the end of the season - and it should be easier replacing a couple of 4th liners than it would be to plug bigger holes in your top 6 or top 4 defense. Once Hansen is back (along with Daniel and Demitra) our 3rd line should be fine... but we need a strong defensive presence down the middle on the 4th unit (especially with Wellwood centering the other bottom 6 line), and Johnson was supposed to be that guy - but he's just failing miserably right now.
I think AV has to put the club on Henrik's shoulders up front. Up his ice time by giving him some PK time while not cutting his time elsewhere. Henrik should be able to handle that for a month or so. He's shown so far that the "A" on his sweater was no accident and I think he can handle the increased workload. At the same time I'd like to see the icetime of Kesler and Burrows upped a bit as well.

Well let me spell it out...right now I don't want to see the 4th line on the ice. Not until they get their crap together.

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10-13-2009, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I hope Gillis is able to upgrade this bottom 6 before the end of the season - and it should be easier replacing a couple of 4th liners than it would be to plug bigger holes in your top 6 or top 4 defense. Once Hansen is back (along with Daniel and Demitra) our 3rd line should be fine... but we need a strong defensive presence down the middle on the 4th unit (especially with Wellwood centering the other bottom 6 line), and Johnson was supposed to be that guy - but he's just failing miserably right now.
It's a little early to write Johnson off 5 games into the season. He will get better. He was around 55% in the dot for St Louis for 4 straight seasons.

Hansen coming back will be a major boost, as you mentioned.

I feel like part of the PK problem is AV's stubbornness in leaving Rypien out there - unless he doesn't start improving, he'll lose his spot in the lineup. As we know, AV is stubborn only to a certain point.

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10-13-2009, 10:35 AM
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Maybe Bliznak or possibley Labrie.
(shudders)
I would rather see Bolduc or Pope coming up, than Labrie. I also think Shirokov needs a little more time in the minors and I don't think Grabner will ever play regularly in the NHL. I liked what Bliznak brought, in the exhibition games I saw him in.

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10-13-2009, 10:38 AM
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I'd try these as PK units:

Kesler-Raymond 1st unit

Johnson-Burrows 2nd unit

And occasionaly throw out H.Sedin-Samuelsson.

As bad as Johnson has been this season, he NEEDS to step up. We can't throw out Wellwood on the PK - you just can't. Perhaps we could throw him out there for key in zone faceoffs, and then a quick change once the puck gets out of our zone. You can't put too much pressure Henrik right now because he's going to need his legs for ES and the PP. He's already playing at 18ish-20ish mins per game. I think that's just around perfect for him. Bumping him up to the 22-24ish mins per game is just going to burn him out.

Seems like our bottom 6 has been useless so far this season. They need to step up in a big way, especially Johnson.

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Old
10-13-2009, 10:38 AM
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This is AV. We all know it's going to be Labrie.

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10-13-2009, 11:01 AM
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This is AV. We all know it's going to be Labrie.
This is AV. Gillis sent Desbiens down just to **** with us, and he's going to call him back up tomorrow.

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10-13-2009, 11:05 AM
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I'm hoping its Grabner or Shirokov. Grabner seems to have gotten off to a good start in Manitoba.

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10-13-2009, 11:12 AM
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Could be both Shirokov and Bolduc coming up, and Glass taking a seat?

I think it was clear to all of us that Desbiens wasn't sticking in the lineup after the Dallas game.

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10-13-2009, 11:12 AM
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There isn't a game until Friday, why keep him up here?

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Old
10-13-2009, 11:18 AM
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This is AV. We all know it's going to be Labrie.
It is a Gillis decision with input from Vigneault.

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Old
10-13-2009, 11:32 AM
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It might just be to get him a couple of games with Manitoba this week. I have no idea what the Moose sched looks like though

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10-13-2009, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
I'm hoping its Grabner or Shirokov. Grabner seems to have gotten off to a good start in Manitoba.
He had an excellent playoffs too. He has above average NHL speed and an above average NHL shot...Most of his problems looked confidence related. If he came up here and had some success I could see him sticking nicely while Danny's out.

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10-13-2009, 11:48 AM
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It might just be to get him a couple of games with Manitoba this week. I have no idea what the Moose sched looks like though
See:
http://www.moosehockey.com/currentschedule

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10-13-2009, 12:04 PM
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He had an excellent playoffs too. He has above average NHL speed and an above average NHL shot...Most of his problems looked confidence related. If he came up here and had some success I could see him sticking nicely while Danny's out.
Agreed. No one in our forward corps has a shot as good as Grabner's imo. Just a sick release. If he can get over his nervous/confidence issues and just play his game, he should be able to stick around till Danny/Demitra get back

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10-13-2009, 12:12 PM
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Nice for a guy like Desbiens to get a shot, but I'm glad he's back down. Just not the type of guy we needed up here at this point. Guys who should warrant a call up are:

Michael Grabner; he needs to taste NHL action for the first time. His preseason got better as it wore on and he's carried that into the start of the AHL season where he's been scoring at will again. We need some offensive ability in the lineup, maybe line him up with Wellwood so Welly can actually pass to someone.

Alexandre Bolduc; big body who can skate and kill penalties, which we need. As has been commented on here, the duo of Johnson and Rypien has been completely awful.

Mario Bliznak; see Bolduc minus the big body. Just a good meat and potatoes player who makes smart plays with the puck, can do faceoffs and kill penalties.

I would leave Shirokov down for a bit longer at this point so he can get on a run and get some confidence going before calling him back up again, but that's just me.

~Canucklehead~

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Old
10-13-2009, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post

Kesler-Burrows is a given as your top PK unit... I would use Raymond-Bernier as the #2 unit (when not having to take any draws), then throw in Henrik-Samuelsson as your #3 unit, out when you need to take a draw and Kesler isn't available.
With Daniel and Demitra out you end up having to use Burrows and Kesler on the powerplay. That means they won't be able to see as much PK time. You need bottom liners who can kill penalties. Johnson is a must out there. Hansen would have been great. Maybe they'll call up a Bolduc.

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Old
10-13-2009, 12:49 PM
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With Daniel and Demitra out you end up having to use Burrows and Kesler on the powerplay. That means they won't be able to see as much PK time. You need bottom liners who can kill penalties. Johnson is a must out there. Hansen would have been great. Maybe they'll call up a Bolduc.
Kesler, at least, has been on the powerplay anyways...

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Old
10-13-2009, 12:51 PM
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I say send up BOTH Grabner and Shirokov to play with wellwood... why the hell not? Try it for one game, if it doesn't work bench them and allow the top 2 lines to eat the majority of the ice time... nothing to lose imo.

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Old
10-13-2009, 12:54 PM
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NFITO
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Nice for a guy like Desbiens to get a shot, but I'm glad he's back down. Just not the type of guy we needed up here at this point. Guys who should warrant a call up are:

Michael Grabner; he needs to taste NHL action for the first time. His preseason got better as it wore on and he's carried that into the start of the AHL season where he's been scoring at will again. We need some offensive ability in the lineup, maybe line him up with Wellwood so Welly can actually pass to someone.

Alexandre Bolduc; big body who can skate and kill penalties, which we need. As has been commented on here, the duo of Johnson and Rypien has been completely awful.

Mario Bliznak; see Bolduc minus the big body. Just a good meat and potatoes player who makes smart plays with the puck, can do faceoffs and kill penalties.

I would leave Shirokov down for a bit longer at this point so he can get on a run and get some confidence going before calling him back up again, but that's just me.

~Canucklehead~
how is it going to effect Shirokov's confidence if he's the one playing better than Grabner and it's the latter that gets called up?

Shirokov was easily the best player out of all these guys in pre-season, and by the reports we've gotten, he's been easily the best player in Manitoba out of these guys, with Grabner benefiting more from Shirokov being sent down, than the other way around.

so if you're going to call someone up, the logical choice right now would be Shirokov, and leaving him down while calling up Grabner isn't going to help his confidence much when he clearly deserves the call-up first.

I can understand sending him down to play more games than letting his bad start stick with him through a quiet period in the schedule... can even accept a grinder being called up instead to play on the 3rd line... but if it comes down to calling up one of Grabner or Shirokov, the choice is pretty easy - you bring up the guy who's clearly deserved it more, and right now that is Shirokov.

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