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Talk of teams returning to Quebec City and/or Winnipeg heating up

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:12 AM
  #26
Cowbell232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkson Falls Down View Post
These topics always turn out well, eventually spiraling into a US vs. Canada pissing match.

Should probably merge this with the news around the league thread before another out of towner needs to make his feelings on Newark known.
This is important news. It can stay here for now.

And the guy from Quebec City has a point. We can't say squat about that place, since their crime rate is so low, etc...

It's the Devils fans that have been causing problems so far...And that will stop.

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:28 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
there will never be another team in Quebec City ever again, sorry.

that place is an absolute **** hole
Just because he said the place is an "absolute ****hole", does it automatically suggest that this has to do with crime in particular? I took it as being physically unattractive.

Perhaps Quebec City is not very clean or unattractive? I don't know, I've never been there. I know the city has plenty of historic cultural offerings, but I'd be curious to hear why he would describe it that way.

But then again, Vancouver was supposed to be this picturesque utopia and I when I finally got to see it, was astounded at the garbage on the street, grafitti on the walls, homeless drug addicts, etc, in certain areas of downtown.

Unfortunately, the prevailing wisdom right now is downtown Newark=bad, everywhere else=good.

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:31 AM
  #28
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for reference- i have never been to Quebec City...but i have a bunch of friends who have, and they said it was not a great place to be, thats all. and not necessarily because of the crime

i really was not trying to flame or start an argument. just going by what i heard

and youll never hear me say that newark is a great place to be haha

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:32 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
for reference- i have never been to Quebec City...but i have a bunch of friends who have, and they said it was not a great place to be, thats all. and not necessarily because of the crime

i really was not trying to flame or start an argument. just going by what i heard

and youll never hear me say that newark is a great place to be haha
What did they say was wrong with it? Just curious.

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:35 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
Ideally, I'd like the Islanders to stay, just as I had wanted Pittsburgh to stay, because of the tradition. But at the end of the day, the Isles, they aren't making money. A team in Brooklyn, who knows how much they'll make? A Hamilton team, even the NHL says would be in it's top 5 of money makers.

And if the Isles move to Hamilton, I'd move them to the North East Division, move Boston to the Atlantic. Phoenix would move out of the Pacific division and go to the North West, while Vancouver moves to the Pacific. Then have Quebec City also in the North East and move New Jersey to the South East and Buffalo also to the Atlantic. I wouldn't like moving to another division, but we're the south most team.

At the end of it all:

Atlantic:

Boston
Buffalo
New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh

North East or Canada division:

Quebec City
Hamilton
Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa

South East

New Jersey
Carolina
Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida

Central

Chicago
Detroit
St. Louis
Nashville
Columbus

North West

Winnipeg
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Minnesota

Pacific

Vancouver
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Dallas
I thought more of somthing like this

Atlantic:

Boston
New Jersey
New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh

North East or Canada division:

Quebec City
Hamilton
Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa

South East

Nashville
Carolina
Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida

Central

Chicago
Detroit
St. Louis
Buffalo
Columbus

North West

Winnipeg
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Minnesota

Pacific

Vancouver
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Dallas

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:36 AM
  #31
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just not a great place to be in, thats all. not sure if that has a lot to do with the language barrier or what.

also, isnt it a relatively small city? i read something somewhere that it would be the 2nd smallest market in professional sports behind Green Bay (which is a special case). is that true?

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:44 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
just not a great place to be in, thats all. not sure if that has a lot to do with the language barrier or what.
But wouldn't that be part of the charm & uniqueness of visiting that city, which is why they perhaps chose to visit it in the first place?

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:47 AM
  #33
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its a great place to be... clean, beautiful, low crime rate as mentionned....
not a great place to live... its basically a big town, cold, french media, with not much to do.

however fans crave hockey... they follow regiously their junior team, the attendance was great at the WC...
they just need someone with balls and money to build the arena.

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:51 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
just not a great place to be in, thats all. not sure if that has a lot to do with the language barrier or what.

also, isnt it a relatively small city? i read something somewhere that it would be the 2nd smallest market in professional sports behind Green Bay (which is a special case). is that true?
They have 715,500 in the metropolitan area, 491,000 in the city. More than KC, Oakland, Cleveland etc.

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:54 AM
  #35
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No love for Hartford, again...

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:59 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidRobot View Post
They have 715,500 in the metropolitan area, 491,000 in the city. More than KC, Oakland, Cleveland etc.
Kansas City metropolitan area is about 2 million, Cleveland 2.2 million and Oakland is part of the San Francisco metro area which has over 7 million.

Those TV markets rank much higher than that of Quebec City.

I'm not against the idea of QC getting another NHL team, but I was just curious why you would post the population of certain cities and ignore the important statistic of measuring a city plus its entire metropolitan area.

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
  #37
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I talked to a guy from Winnipeg on the golf course a few months ago and he was saying how much they miss the Jets. However, he went on to say that he doesn't know if the support would be there for 41 games/yr+ considering the economy in Winnipeg.

Further more, there's still questions about the arena the team would play in if they came back to winnipeg. The MTS center would only have a capacity of about 15k fans for hockey.

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:08 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clalo93 View Post
I thought more of somthing like this

Atlantic:

Boston
New Jersey
New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh

North East or Canada division:

Quebec City
Hamilton
Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa

South East

Nashville
Carolina
Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida

Central

Chicago
Detroit
St. Louis
Buffalo
Columbus

North West

Winnipeg
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Minnesota

Pacific

Vancouver
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Dallas

That's TERRIBLE!!! And they make little to no sense whatsoever...

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
I look forward to this though, I think Phoenix should go to Winnipeg and the Thrashers should go to Quebec City, while the Islanders move to Hamilton.
There is absolutely no reason for the Islanders to move if the Lighthouse project gets approved (and it will). And there is absolutely no reason for the Thrashers to move if management could get its' head out of its' azz. The people of ATL are absolutely sick of the Thrashers management, as that team has been run into the ground virtually from the moment it landed in Atlanta. People are tired of subsidizing a grossly inept product on the ice, and frankly, if the Devils were run like ATL, I wouldnt go to more than 1 or 2 games per year either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
for reference- i have never been to Quebec City
Yes, as I said in my reply, I was fairly certain of that given the ridiculous nature of the comment.


Last edited by BenedictGomez: 10-12-2009 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
10-12-2009, 12:21 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Kansas City metropolitan area is about 2 million, Cleveland 2.2 million and Oakland is part of the San Francisco metro area which has over 7 million.

I'm not against the idea of QC getting another NHL team, but I was just curious why you would post the population of certain cities and ignore the important statistic of measuring a city plus its entire metropolitan area.
It is a small market with maybe only 750,000, but consider what rabid fans they are.
If only 1.5% of the population purchased season tickets you could fill 11,250 seats for 41 games right there.

Recall that it wasnt fan interest that sunk the Nordiques, it was the plummeting Canadian dollar, which hit approxamately $1 USD = $1.65 CAD at its' low point.

Not everyone is the Toronto Maple Leafs; they simply couldnt sustain that kind of financial hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj225 View Post
That's TERRIBLE!!! And they make little to no sense whatsoever...
It does if you have some bizarre wet dream fantasy of creating Canadian divisions.

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:25 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post

It does if you have some bizarre wet dream fantasy of creating Canadian divisions.
Yeah...that's the last thing I'm having wet dreams about!

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:30 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
Kansas City metropolitan area is about 2 million, Cleveland 2.2 million and Oakland is part of the San Francisco metro area which has over 7 million.

Those TV markets rank much higher than that of Quebec City.

I'm not against the idea of QC getting another NHL team, but I was just curious why you would post the population of certain cities and ignore the important statistic of measuring a city plus its entire metropolitan area.
Yeah I was going off pure population, my mistake.

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Old
10-12-2009, 12:49 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
It is a small market with maybe only 750,000, but consider what rabid fans they are.
If only 1.5% of the population purchased season tickets you could fill 11,250 seats for 41 games right there.

Recall that it wasnt fan interest that sunk the Nordiques, it was the plummeting Canadian dollar, which hit approxamately $1 USD = $1.65 CAD at its' low point.

Not everyone is the Toronto Maple Leafs; they simply couldnt sustain that kind of financial hit.

It does if you have some bizarre wet dream fantasy of creating Canadian divisions.
If that was the sole reason, Calgary, Edmonton and perhaps even Vancouver would have left Canada as well, leaving only Toronto & Montreal north of the border.

It was a combination of incredibly small markets with virtually no job, business or population growth, the declining Canadian dollar, in conjunction with Gary Bettman's belief (and the NHL owners who lured him away from the NBA) that future NHL growth would only occur if hockey was expanded and grown in the sunbelt or relatively wealthy cities with growing population bases.

Unless there is a coup d'etat that eliminates Gary Bettman (and those owners who believe in his vision) and transfers power to the north, the seat of NHL power (and its philosophy) will continue to remain south of the border-centric and while it is interesting to wax nostalgic about 15,000 screaming fans at Le Colisee, cities like Winnipeg, Quebec City and most likely Hamilton will remain pipe dreams, especially in the midst of a world wide recession.

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Old
10-12-2009, 01:03 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muttley View Post
If that was the sole reason, Calgary, Edmonton and perhaps even Vancouver would have left Canada as well, leaving only Toronto & Montreal north of the border.
It was by far the #1 reason. Those teams earned revenue in severely devalued CAD* and then had to turn around and pay out expenditures in a strong USD.

And if you recall, Calgary and Edmonton DID go through very tough times, and Edmonton almost lost the Oilers. Vancouver, I believe, was and still is owned by billionaires, so I dont think they were as affected since the ownership team could ride out the economy.

*which was great for me at the time, living not far from the Canadian border. We'd go up to Montreal and order a few pitchers of beer and hand the girl a $20 bill. She'd come back to our table and drop off the two pitchers of beer AND give us a $20 bill!

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Old
10-12-2009, 01:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Drewr15 View Post
Um...Philly's further south than newark DF.
So is Pittsburgh.

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Old
10-12-2009, 02:04 PM
  #46
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Winnipeg fan here.

I think QC would be a great place for team to relocate to. IMO, they are almost as guaranteed to make a profit as Hamilton. I think the only reason the team moved was because they couldn't get a new arena (the same thing that almost happened to Pittsburgh). Attendance was never a problem I believe.

In a perfect world, I'd like to see the Isles move to Hamilton. You go from 3 NY-based teams and 1 Toronto-based team to 2 teams in each region.

As for Winnipeg, I'm not really sure what's going on. Our prospective ownership group (David Thomson and Mark Chipman, the owners of True North) are very hush-hush, but apparently they've been meeting with the current Thrashers owners for almost half a year. There's also that alleged email Bettman sent Daly that says Winnipeg should be offered the team (Coyotes) if they have to relocated. However, since I haven't heard anything concrete yet, I'm choosing to believe it's all speculation thus far.

Here's to hoping the rumors are true and that I'll be seeing Zajac playing in his hometown with the Devils someday soon


Last edited by WJG: 10-12-2009 at 02:09 PM.
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Old
10-12-2009, 02:20 PM
  #47
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This is just my opinion, but I don't enjoy seeing teams move. If it were the Thrashers/Yotes moving to either QC or Winnipeg, I suppose I could live with it considering the fact that those cities already lost teams, and the teams would be way more likely to be successful up north. I really hope the Isles stay in NY as the Isles. They have a great history, and I think it would be awful to see them go.

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Old
10-12-2009, 02:25 PM
  #48
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ah, the speculations of the Canadian hockey media. there's a better chance of a team in Arkansas than there is in Quebec City.

smallest market other than Green Bay with a team already penetrating the market. no one likes the sun belt teams because they're in the South and the South doesn't deserve hockey, I understand that, but read up on the past about the Jets and the Nords before you get all retro horny. they failed for a reason and they would most likely fail again.

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Old
10-12-2009, 02:30 PM
  #49
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E.J. Hradek made a good point on NHL Live today. He said Bettman has these kinds of meetings all the time. It's a part of his job. The only reason we're hearing about this is because it involves Canadian cities.

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10-12-2009, 02:34 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
ah, the speculations of the Canadian hockey media. there's a better chance of a team in Arkansas than there is in Quebec City.

smallest market other than Green Bay with a team already penetrating the market. no one likes the sun belt teams because they're in the South and the South doesn't deserve hockey, I understand that, but read up on the past about the Jets and the Nords before you get all retro horny. they failed for a reason and they would most likely fail again.
I don't pretend to know all the reasons why those teams left but it's not always necessarily because they failed there and would fail again. Case in point is Minnesota. Sometimes the owner gets a better deal to move the team and that is the main driver. So I don't think you can across the board dismiss previous cities just because it didn't work out there once.

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