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Talk of teams returning to Quebec City and/or Winnipeg heating up

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Old
10-12-2009, 04:46 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Wpg Guy View Post
Well, he must be living under a rock, because Winnipeg has one of the strongest economies in Canada, and has one of the fastest growing populations per capita in the country. There are many naysayers in Winnipeg that get down about lots of things, but that is also changing. Winnipeg can and will support a team in the near future. As for the arena, it can be expanded to 17000 if needed.
I would like to see NHL hockey back in Winnipeg, I have fond memories watching the Jets play on tv while growing up.
Thomas Steen, Hawerchuk, Teemu, Randy Carlise, Doug Smail. Fun teams to watch and support.

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10-12-2009, 04:48 PM
  #77
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I should also add that I'm a big, big advocate for a pro team in Seattle, I think the sport could thrive in the area and it would also create a new rival for the Canucks given their proximity.

Problem is, the prospective ownership in Seattle (which I believe consists of the Seahawks owner) wants an expansion and not an existing franchise in disrepair. That's going to be a huge hurdle because I don't know that the NHL truly has room for expansion, especially with a lot of the parity created post-lockout.

But in terms of American locations, I think Seattle has the most potential beyond adding to Minny or moving back into somewhere like KC.

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10-12-2009, 04:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by fortheloveof666 View Post
I should also add that I'm a big, big advocate for a pro team in Seattle, I think the sport could thrive in the area and it would also create a new rival for the Canucks given their proximity.

Problem is, the prospective ownership in Seattle (which I believe consists of the Seahawks owner) wants an expansion and not an existing franchise in disrepair. That's going to be a huge hurdle because I don't know that the NHL truly has room for expansion, especially with a lot of the parity created post-lockout.

But in terms of American locations, I think Seattle has the most potential beyond adding to Minny or moving back into somewhere like KC.
they do need a building, though. Key is old and isn't hockey friendly. part of what screwed the Coyotes and put them out in the boondocks.

would be a great place for a team, though, because there's no competition, lol, put them in awful green and yellow jerseys and call them the Sonics and people will root for them just because. I do believe the city owns the trademark, too.

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10-12-2009, 04:55 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DevsOwnYou View Post
There is no reason for younger people under 25 years old that have grown up in NJ to choose another team, such as the Rags. Have some pride in your only true home NJ team.
Most Rangers fans from New Jersey that I know are Rangers fans because their family members are. It doesn't have anything to do with civic pride.

Regarding Seattle, I agree that it would seem to be a good location for a franchise, but I've heard that there isn't much interest in hockey there, or at least less than you would expect from a Northern city. Those who are into hockey in that area are Canucks fans because of the proximity. But perhaps I'm misinformed. The Canucks already have strong rivalries with the Oilers and Flames, so I see no reason to manufacture another rivalry for them.

One thing in their favour is that they wouldn't have to compete with an NBA team, because Seattle has lost theirs. It's also one of the biggest TV markets that doesn't currently have an NHL franchise.

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10-12-2009, 04:56 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
they do need a building, though. Key is old and isn't hockey friendly. part of what screwed the Coyotes and put them out in the boondocks.

would be a great place for a team, though, because there's no competition, lol, put them in awful green and yellow jerseys and call them the Sonics and people will root for them just because. I do believe the city owns the trademark, too.
Well, from what I gather, the prospective ownership would actually shell out more than half the cost for a new arena in the city and would also look into investors in the venue before seeking public funds. I have a friend from the area and he's kept me pretty privy to the rumblings in the area about this possibility.

And yeah I'm also relatively certain the city does own the name, hence why there were court battles over the team name being moved to its new location.

I happen to love the Seahawk's colors (minus the lime jerseys they wore a few games back) but if they wanna go the ugly route they could grab the Islanders if they move and bring back the Gordon's fisherman jersey.

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10-12-2009, 04:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Most Rangers fans from New Jersey that I know are Rangers fans because their family members are. It doesn't have anything to do with civic pride.

Regarding Seattle, I agree that it would seem to be a good location for a franchise, but I've heard that there isn't much interest in hockey there, or at least less than you would expect from a Northern city. Those who are into hockey in that area are Canucks fans because of the proximity. But perhaps I'm misinformed. The Canucks already have strong rivalries with the Oilers and Flames, so I see no reason to manufacture another rivalry for them.

One thing in their favour is that they wouldn't have to compete with an NBA team, because Seattle has lost theirs. It's also one of the biggest TV markets that doesn't currently have an NHL franchise.
Actually, my aforementioned friend was telling me there are some minor league franchises in the tri-cities area and he said the fan-base(s) are absolutely rabid. He went to a playoff game about 2 years back and said the atmosphere was absolutely electric.

Surely this is a much smaller-scale and won't translate into decent ticketsales for a presumed 16k+ arena, but in that area I don't think its inconceivable. Seahawk fans are some of the most passionate in the NFL, if that same attitude could be applied to a hockey franchise, it could turn out to be a great thing.

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10-12-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kilxler View Post
Yes but just because you have a bigger "TV" market doesn't mean everyone will come watch and see you.
Right. But Gary Bettman and most of the top NHL brass think it does.

I have a feeling that even though they may lag behind in attendance from any potential Quebec or Winnipeg team, Nashville, Atlanta & Tampa Bay most likely generate larger revenue from television and advertising contracts, which would compensate for smaller attendance gate receipts. Improved attendance would become a nice bonus.

Television and advertising contracts are extremely important. That's why the Devils can remain viable with below average attendance and luxury suites/club seating that remain dark for most games.

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10-12-2009, 05:08 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by fortheloveof666 View Post
Actually, my aforementioned friend was telling me there are some minor league franchises in the tri-cities area and he said the fan-base(s) are absolutely rabid. He went to a playoff game about 2 years back and said the atmosphere was absolutely electric.

Surely this is a much smaller-scale and won't translate into decent ticketsales for a presumed 16k+ arena, but in that area I don't think its inconceivable. Seahawk fans are some of the most passionate in the NFL, if that same attitude could be applied to a hockey franchise, it could turn out to be a great thing.
Not only Seahawks fans, but also Sounders fans. It's absolutely stunning how they manage to pack the arena for MLS games. If some decent cross-promotion was done between the soccer and hockey franchises, some very respectable attendance figures could be achieved.

And it is a good thing that the city owns the rights to the name and logo of the Sonics. I don't know if they'd want to name a hockey team after a departed basketball team, but I could see such a move being successful. Hartford similarly owns the rights to the Whalers name and logo, which sadly is the reason why it's impossible to buy vintage Whalers jerseys from the NHL store. I wish they would release the licensing, I imagine the city would make a lot of money off sales of Whalers merchandise. But they are holding out hope that the Whalers will come back if we lobby hard enough.

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10-12-2009, 05:14 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by FDBluth View Post
Alright, this is a bit off-topic perhaps and I am a visiting poster...but that was an incredibly ignorant comment. I'm going to have to go all google images on your ass. Quebec City is one of the most beautiful cities in North America.





Anyways...don't mind me. Just trying to enlighten someone who is clearly misinformed!
didn't QC have a problem with getting players to sign there because of the lack of english in the city? i agree that it is a nice looking city, but there are a lot of nice looking cities in the NHL where there are already hockey teams and they speak english. i'm not knocking QC or anything like that (i have never been there, but i have been to montreal and i loved it), but i could see that still being a problem, even with the influx of players that don't speak english as their first language.

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10-12-2009, 05:14 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
this is somewhat off topic, but i was only about 5 or 6 when the sharks and lightning and senators all came in to the league in the early 90's, but what were people's reaction back then in regards to the markets. obviously hopes were high that the team in ottawa would fare pretty well, but what of san jose and tampa bay? san jose had already had a team and lost it (don't know if it was a financial thing or lack of interest but for whatever reason it was no long there) and tampa bay was the only southern market besides LA at the time. were people skeptical of the expansion back then or was this generally considered a good thing?

i would like to see some of the teams in trouble move, but not to a place like winnipeg or quebec city where teams have been but did not remain because of financial reasons or otherwise. another team in canada would be a good destination for a team, even a 2nd toronto team.
Remember, this was an era before insane, dysfunctional franchises like the NYR offered Bobby Holik $9 million per season. Mid to large size cities (with Ottawa on the low end) had a chance to survive.

Ottawa although not much over 1 million population was chosen do to its strong onwership group and the promise of building a 25,000 seat Ottawa Palladium. Of course it was scaled back, but they did get a new building.

I was in my early 20's back then and putting more teams in California (Sharks in 1991 & Anaheim in 1993) was purely riding the coattails of the hype and success of Gretzky and the Kings.

I don't remember anyone predicting gloom and doom, but it did seem gimmicky.

The rationale was growing populations, an incredible Silicone valley economy in San Jose, a large, prosperous & growing Anaheim CA, transplanted Northerners & snowbirds in Tampa & Miami, to go along with insane population growth and a positive business climate.

Remember, this was almost 20 years ago now. The world has changed since then of course, especially over the last year.

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10-12-2009, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
didn't QC have a problem with getting players to sign there because of the lack of english in the city?
Oh, you mean Eric Lindros?

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10-12-2009, 05:18 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Not only Seahawks fans, but also Sounders fans. It's absolutely stunning how they manage to pack the arena for MLS games. If some decent cross-promotion was done between the soccer and hockey franchises, some very respectable attendance figures could be achieved.

And it is a good thing that the city owns the rights to the name and logo of the Sonics. I don't know if they'd want to name a hockey team after a departed basketball team, but I could see such a move being successful. Hartford similarly owns the rights to the Whalers name and logo, which sadly is the reason why it's impossible to buy vintage Whalers jerseys from the NHL store. I wish they would release the licensing, I imagine the city would make a lot of money off sales of Whalers merchandise. But they are holding out hope that the Whalers will come back if we lobby hard enough.
ebay has some decent Whalers stuff on there. But maybe not the kind of stuff you're looking for.

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10-12-2009, 05:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DevsOwnYou View Post
I would like to see more people in New Jersey support the home team Devils by going to more games. The fan support was very good towards the end of the season last year and into the playoffs, the buzz in The Rock was a good vibe.

There is no reason for younger people under 25 years old that have grown up in NJ to choose another team, such as the Rags. Have some pride in your only true home NJ team.
that is a little bit of a ridiculous statement. i grew up in NJ but i grew up in south jersey. living there before the advent of the internet and cable tv w/ center ice package it would have been imposible for me to watch or listen to any of the games. in south jersey it is all flyers. the only way to follow the devils as a kid would have been to travel 2-3 hours to the game, wait until they played the flyers, or just read the standings in the paper the next morning (they don't have a regular write up about the devs in the philadelphia inquirer). that doesn't sound like too much fun for a kid trying to get into hockey. the only choice you had back then in south jersey is to watch the flyers or listen to the flyers.

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10-12-2009, 05:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by fortheloveof666 View Post
ebay has some decent Whalers stuff on there. But maybe not the kind of stuff you're looking for.
Oh, I'm not looking for Whalers stuff, I still have my old #21 white Andy Cassels jersey and a few Whalers game pucks. But I know a lot of people who would like to buy Whalers merchandise, and it's very difficult for them to get anything besides caps and t-shirts because the city is being stubborn with the licensing of the logo.

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10-12-2009, 05:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
that is a little bit of a ridiculous statement. i grew up in NJ but i grew up in south jersey. living there before the advent of the internet and cable tv w/ center ice package it would have been imposible for me to watch or listen to any of the games. in south jersey it is all flyers. the only way to follow the devils as a kid would have been to travel 2-3 hours to the game, wait until they played the flyers, or just read the standings in the paper the next morning (they don't have a regular write up about the devs in the philadelphia inquirer). that doesn't sound like too much fun for a kid trying to get into hockey. the only choice you had back then in south jersey is to watch the flyers or listen to the flyers.
yep, some people don't realize how much the Flyers are a Jersey team too. don't understand how they can't since they set up shop in Vorhees.

my sister lives down that way and when I go somewhere down there with Devils stuff on, people look at me like I have two heads, at least until I talk and I have a Joisey accent and they realize I'm not from down there.

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10-12-2009, 05:37 PM
  #91
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The major obstacle to many current teams' survival or the return/addition of teams to other markets is the very business model upon which the NHL is based. Greedy owners and players have designed a system that requires 18,000 attendance and exorbitant ticket prices in order for a select few teams that can consistently sell out to make huge profits while the rest scramble to put 14-15000 in the building. If the league (players and owners) could accept the fact that, as a gate driven league, 15000 is the benchmark and adjust their budgets accordingly. then everyone could survive and even make money. But this will never happen. Nero fiddled while Rome burned. The owners dream of being part of the "Big 4" and the players make a few extra million while continuing to operate within a flawed economic system.

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10-12-2009, 05:38 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
yep, some people don't realize how much the Flyers are a Jersey team too. don't understand how they can't since they set up shop in Vorhees.

my sister lives down that way and when I go somewhere down there with Devils stuff on, people look at me like I have two heads, at least until I talk and I have a Joisey accent and they realize I'm not from down there.
yeah i had the reverse effect in college at rutgers wearing flyers stuff. when i lived up there i would go to devils games at the rock when they started doing the $10 tickets at the door. hockey is hockey. i get flack all the time from my friends that are devils fans for liking the flyers and being from jersey, but some people don't realize how close south jersey is to philly. it would take me like 20 minutes to get to a flyers or phillies game as a kid with my dad. generally speaking, proximity is what chooses a person's sports team. that's why there aren't too many kings fans in new jersey.

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10-12-2009, 05:41 PM
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that is a little bit of a ridiculous statement. i grew up in NJ but i grew up in south jersey. living there before the advent of the internet and cable tv w/ center ice package it would have been imposible for me to watch or listen to any of the games. in south jersey it is all flyers. the only way to follow the devils as a kid would have been to travel 2-3 hours to the game, wait until they played the flyers, or just read the standings in the paper the next morning (they don't have a regular write up about the devs in the philadelphia inquirer). that doesn't sound like too much fun for a kid trying to get into hockey. the only choice you had back then in south jersey is to watch the flyers or listen to the flyers.
I go to school in Trenton now, and I never realized how true this is until I started here. I only get to watch the Devils if they play the Flyers, Rangers, or if its a national broadcast. South Jersey is Flyers territory waaayyyyy before its Devils territory. It drives me nuts.

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10-12-2009, 05:55 PM
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I'm going off topic for a second.

I want to thank the drastic turnaround of posters from all across the board and the respect Devils' fans are showing then since I almost closed this thread at page 1/2...

I'm a BIG supporter of a team like the 'Yotes moving back to Winnipeg now that the dollar is strong again and we have a good CBA in place. In the future, they may need to move again, but it is clear the PHX market is NOT supporting them at all. "**** or get off the pot", if PHX doesn't want a team and has no owner, sell them and move them.

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10-12-2009, 06:01 PM
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just want to add, the cap going up under the current CBA is not necessarily a good thing.
saw this suggested on page 1. all the cap going up does is further squeeze the bottom.

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10-12-2009, 06:08 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by FDBluth View Post
Alright, this is a bit off-topic perhaps and I am a visiting poster...but that was an incredibly ignorant comment. I'm going to have to go all google images on your ass. Quebec City is one of the most beautiful cities in North America.





Anyways...don't mind me. Just trying to enlighten someone who is clearly misinformed!
Google images could make Afghanistan look nice. They could make compton look like a resort...

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10-12-2009, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Wpg Guy View Post
Well, he must be living under a rock, because Winnipeg has one of the strongest economies in Canada, and has one of the fastest growing populations per capita in the country. There are many naysayers in Winnipeg that get down about lots of things, but that is also changing. Winnipeg can and will support a team in the near future. As for the arena, it can be expanded to 17000 if needed.
Yeah, you're right. He's been living under a rock there for the last 20 years

Also, the MTS can only be expanded to 17k for concerts. Not hockey games.

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10-12-2009, 06:27 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
before the advent of the internet and cable tv w/ center ice package it would have been imposible for me to watch or listen to any of the games. the only way to follow the devils as a kid would have been to travel 2-3 hours to the game, wait until they played the flyers, or just read the standings in the paper the next morning
Ahhhhh yes, the dark ages. Back when "following the Devils" meant either listening to AM radio or waking up early and looking at the sports section of The Star-Ledger. Then, HAPPY DAYS, when finally you could pay $15 per month for Sportschannel to see Devils games, which I BEGGED my mother to pay for since I was a little kid and didnt have the $180 per year.

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10-12-2009, 10:11 PM
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I'm all for it. And move The Whale back from Raleigh to Hartford!

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10-12-2009, 10:18 PM
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Yeah, you're right. He's been living under a rock there for the last 20 years

Also, the MTS can only be expanded to 17k for concerts. Not hockey games.
Yes, he has been living under a rock, and is a negative person (too many Winnipeggers are like this, but it's changing thankfully). And permanently, yes, the arena can be expanded to about 17000 by taking out Hargrave St. or expanding upwards. I prefer the first option.

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