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Talk of teams returning to Quebec City and/or Winnipeg heating up

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:20 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forceten View Post
I'm all for it. And move The Whale back from Raleigh to Hartford!
Hear, hear!

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10-18-2009, 05:45 PM
  #102
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So here are some new deets released.

Quote:
QUEBEC CITY -- Quebec City has announced its intention to build a new arena in the hopes of bringing back an NHL team and one day hosting the Winter Olympics. Mayor Regis Labeaume said on Friday that he's hired engineering firm SNC Lavalin to conduct a feasibility study. He hopes to see the arena built from 2010 to 2012.

Labeaume expects the arena to cost $400 million, with the city contributing $50 million to the project. He wants the federal and provincial governments to each pony up $175 million under infrastructure programs.
Quebec lost the Nordiques in 1995, when they left to become the Colorado Avalanche. The aging Colisee arena has been cited as the main reason for the city's inability to attract another NHL team.
A few thoughts:

1) His timeline is a bunch of bullcrap, no way in hell this is done in 2012.
2) Why would he expect Canada to poney up $175 Million?
3) Will Quebec poney up $175M?
4) Why is this thing going to cost $400 Million in the first place? That's more than The Rock for God's sake.


http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/12373475


Last edited by BenedictGomez: 10-18-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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10-18-2009, 05:57 PM
  #103
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this is why Quebec doesn't have a team. no one wants to pay for it. I guess they'll look for federal aid for a potential buyer, too.

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10-18-2009, 06:13 PM
  #104
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Rumor also has it that Pierre Karl Péladeau (President and CEO of Quebecor Inc., Quebecor Media Inc. and Sun Media Corporation) might be the man to help Qc city land another team in "la belle province".

He lost the bid to purchase the Montreal Canadiens to the Molson brothers a couple of months ago and might consider bringing in a team that will possibly be on the move like the Bolts (Lecavalier, St-Louis, Tanguay), the Thrashers, the Coyotes, etc...

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10-18-2009, 06:58 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Rumor also has it that Pierre Karl Péladeau (President and CEO of Quebecor Inc., Quebecor Media Inc. and Sun Media Corporation) might be the man to help Qc city land another team in "la belle province".

He lost the bid to purchase the Montreal Canadiens to the Molson brothers a couple of months ago and might consider bringing in a team that will possibly be on the move like the Bolts (Lecavalier, St-Louis, Tanguay), the Thrashers, the Coyotes, etc...
I understand Phoenix and Atlanta, but I thought Tampa Bay was relatively healthy, no?

Also, I think Atlanta just needs one decent season with a playoff series win and they'll be fine. They had a decent fan base, but people are tired of the team being managed into the crapper every year. My best guess is that that team survives, and that the Coyotes are doomed.

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10-18-2009, 07:15 PM
  #106
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That's the first step. They need a state of the art arena. Nobody is getting a team without one.

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10-18-2009, 07:15 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I understand Phoenix and Atlanta, but I thought Tampa Bay was relatively healthy, no?

Also, I think Atlanta just needs one decent season with a playoff series win and they'll be fine. They had a decent fan base, but people are tired of the team being managed into the crapper every year. My best guess is that that team survives, and that the Coyotes are doomed.
They are, but with the ownership circus down there, strange personnel moves, and the recent lack of success, that could change in a hurry.

I think Atlanta will survive if Kovalchuk decides to stay. If he doesn't, Waddell will almost certainly be canned for allowing the face of the franchise to walk.

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10-18-2009, 07:17 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I understand Phoenix and Atlanta, but I thought Tampa Bay was relatively healthy, no?

Also, I think Atlanta just needs one decent season with a playoff series win and they'll be fine. They had a decent fan base, but people are tired of the team being managed into the crapper every year. My best guess is that that team survives, and that the Coyotes are doomed.
Well they were under the previous ownership. However this new one that came in last year has basically driven everyone away and is having financial problems themselves. That said reportedly other groups are being lineup to keep them in Tampa if they fall through.

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Old
10-18-2009, 07:19 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I understand Phoenix and Atlanta, but I thought Tampa Bay was relatively healthy, no?

Also, I think Atlanta just needs one decent season with a playoff series win and they'll be fine. They had a decent fan base, but people are tired of the team being managed into the crapper every year. My best guess is that that team survives, and that the Coyotes are doomed.
Tampa has bank.

Atlanta will be fine as long as Kovalchuk re-signs.

I would think the Panthers would be in worse condition than either of them. You hear a lot more about their issues at the gates.

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Old
10-18-2009, 07:34 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
I would think the Panthers would be in worse condition than either of them. You hear a lot more about their issues at the gates.
Especially because their one big marketable star, Bouwmeester, didn't stay.

Didn't they have that promotion where anybody with a FL driver's license could get free Panthers tickets? That sounds pretty desperate.

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10-18-2009, 08:17 PM
  #111
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Tampa isn't moving. Yes, they have ownership problems, but they're not moving. They actually have a decent base there. it's just a media fantasy.

in the "local" media, if the Rangers had 3 or 4 native francophones, they'd be rumored to be "on the move' too.

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10-19-2009, 12:23 AM
  #112
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Ahoy! I thought i'd drop some comments as i'm old enough to remember the whole story about the Nordiques move to Colorado.

First, someone said "why couldnt this team get an attendance of 15.5k?" The answer is quite simple : the max capacity was 15,250.

Worst year was ~13.5k but that was 91-92... I remember it very well, it was the year when fans waited for the players at the airport... with paperbags over their heads. I think a 88% attendance in those conditions aren't that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
So here are some new deets released.



A few thoughts:

1) His timeline is a bunch of bullcrap, no way in hell this is done in 2012.
2) Why would he expect Canada to poney up $175 Million?
3) Will Quebec poney up $175M?
4) Why is this thing going to cost $400 Million in the first place? That's more than The Rock for God's sake.


http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/12373475
1) The town needs it anyway. They want to build it NHL team or not and the current mayor is quite a feat (90% approval rate in surveys!) so i wouldnt be that surprised.
2) Actually, Canada already said yes.
3) Quebec wants to sit with the city.
4) Having read the docs (in french), that's the cost they expect a ~18kish arena to cost plus the parking lot. They want one easy and cheap to maintain so they want to invest more now to save more later (the study estimates the old coliseum to cost twice as much to maintain compared to that 18kish new arena). They compared the cost with others recent arena (and they bashed the MTS in Winnipeg quite a lot in the docs for being a cheap building that will cost Winnipeg a lot on the long run).

---

Now, it is true that the team never lost money. Quebec's government originally wanted to buy the team, they backed out when Aubut (the team's manager back then) failed to get a salary cap in the lock-out. They wanted to revise the plan and Aubut said ******* that and sold to the highest bidder.

---

Quebec City is one of the most beautiful cities i've visited in NA. Low pollution, low crimes rates, etc. It's got a "very big village" mentality and it's both its charm, and its problem. Contrary to Montreal, most of its population speaks french and it can be quite annoying to hang in the city and not be understood at all. There's actually tons of stuff to do in the city.

---

Finally, consider that the QJMHL team got an attendance of 10k+ per games. They're really crazy about hockey out there and it's much closer to the smaller towns.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:09 AM
  #113
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You said "Ahoy". Everything you said afterwards, right or not, I will forever take as doctrine.

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10-19-2009, 09:16 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUF View Post
2) Actually, Canada already said yes.
I just want to point out that I'm almost 100% positive that this is not true. The federal government almost never (read: never) commits to that kind of infrastructure dollars in circumstances such as this. And by that I mean:

1) There is no formal proposal for the project. I'm almost certain given the preliminary stages of the discussion, it is next to impossible to believe that there would have been a formal propsal made for infrastructure dollars.

and

2) The municipal government (Quebec City) and the provinical government (Province of Quebec) would be required to put up at least matching dollars for the project. Given that the article says that the city would pay $50M while the province and the feds pay $175M each, I think that even if such a proposal were formally produced it is highly unlikely it would be approved by the federal government.

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10-19-2009, 01:27 PM
  #115
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Strange to see Devils fans so supportive of moving franchises. If they state of NJ and city of Newark hadn't already committed to the Rock before the economy tanked, the Devils would be near the top of the list of teams on the chopping block.

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10-19-2009, 01:51 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUF View Post

4) Having read the docs (in french), that's the cost they expect a ~18kish arena to cost plus the parking lot. They want one easy and cheap to maintain so they want to invest more now to save more later (the study estimates the old coliseum to cost twice as much to maintain compared to that 18kish new arena). They compared the cost with others recent arena
I'm sorry, but there's no way an arena in Quebec City should cost $400 MILLION to construct. No way. The Rock cost $375 Million, and that's in New Jersey, where it costs a helluva lot more to build anything and get crap done due to Unions, real estate costs, and outright political plundering in general. The Excel Center in Minny only cost something like $130 Million, the arena in Columbus $175 Million, and the Philips Arena in downtown Atlanta $214 Million. So that $400 Million figure literally lept off the page at me when I saw it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#D View Post
I just want to point out that I'm almost 100% positive that this is not true. The federal government almost never (read: never) commits to that kind of infrastructure dollars in circumstances such as this.
I was going to question that too, so thanks for clearing that up. I think our society has become anesthetized to large numbers in general. $175 Million, is an absolutely enormous sum of money at any time, let alone in a recession.

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10-19-2009, 02:42 PM
  #117
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I love, repeat, love the old Nords jerseys.

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10-19-2009, 02:52 PM
  #118
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I love, repeat, love the old Nords jerseys.
The fleur-de-lis makes absolutely anything awesome.

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10-19-2009, 03:01 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Strange to see Devils fans so supportive of moving franchises. If they state of NJ and city of Newark hadn't already committed to the Rock before the economy tanked, the Devils would be near the top of the list of teams on the chopping block.
Ahh, but we got lucky and now that it's no longer our problem, move whoever you want! We don't care!

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10-19-2009, 03:02 PM
  #120
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Awesome jersey, simple.

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10-19-2009, 03:03 PM
  #121
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as a kid these jeresys reminded me of mr. turtle...


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Old
10-19-2009, 03:14 PM
  #122
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I always thought the logo looked like an elephant playing hockey with its trunk. What the hell is a "Nordique" anyway?

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10-19-2009, 03:17 PM
  #123
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Yep, it's hard to finance something that doesn't really exist. I think it's more of QC and QP again not really wanting to pay and hoping someone else will come up with the money.

Which is shades of 94-95 all over again.

unless there's a big hockey nationalism kick in Canada, I don't see why that money is a done deal. maybe if they came with a team, it would be. but I still doubt it. especially with the media blathering about a separatist hockey program push.

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10-19-2009, 03:19 PM
  #124
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Last edited by Tao Jones: 10-19-2009 at 03:25 PM.
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Old
10-19-2009, 03:26 PM
  #125
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ESPN - 2009 NHL Attendance

Florida's attendance last year, man-for-man, matched the Devils' attendance (about 15,600 per game), but what's more telling is that Florida had the 2nd emptiest arena in the league (81% versus our hair-under-90%), only ahead of Atlanta.

Tampa (85.6%) was 26th, so not much better.

I was pretty young when the Nordiques and Jets moved, but weren't the two biggest issues the size of the hockey market and the canadian currency exchange rate? The rates have equalled out, but I wonder how they're convinced the market's big enough now.

I guess because they know the market in Phoenix or Florida isn't. :>

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