HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Peter Bondra, hockey hall of fame?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-13-2013, 12:31 AM
  #326
Plural
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 30,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Read the bolded >>>>>



Did you quote anyone else's post in that quote? For God's sakes man if you're going to respond to one of my posts please do me the courtesy of actually reading the post.
Yeah, probably should.

I am a bit shaky from the 3OT finals game. Sorry bout that.

I still don't get it tough.

Plural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 12:39 AM
  #327
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Yeah, probably should.

I am a bit shaky from the 3OT finals game. Sorry bout that.

I still don't get it tough.
No problems.....I'm pretty wiped myself right now. Hell of a game right?

Anyway, my point was there was an awful lot of negativity directed towards Bondra when there are certainly questionable members of the hall. Dino I was using as an example because he's the one who comes to mind when I think of "What the hell is HE doing in the Hall". Remember I was watching Dino when he was in Washington so I got a good hard look at him and he certainly never struck me as Hall material.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 12:47 AM
  #328
Plural
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 30,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
No problems.....I'm pretty wiped myself right now. Hell of a game right?

Anyway, my point was there was an awful lot of negativity directed towards Bondra when there are certainly questionable members of the hall. Dino I was using as an example because he's the one who comes to mind when I think of "What the hell is HE doing in the Hall". Remember I was watching Dino when he was in Washington so I got a good hard look at him and he certainly never struck me as Hall material.
Yeah, it was a great game. It made me late from work.

I guess I understand the premises your problem here. But it is not actually a Dino vs. Bondra debate. Ciccarelli gets a lot criticism on his own. Most people agree that he shouldn't be in the hall.

But if Dino being in the Hall of Fame somehow puts a "shield" of criticism around players like Bondra then we are on the wrong track.

It doesn't matter if the Hall of Fame would induct Bondra to the hall, I would still argue against Patrick Marleau. You get what I am saying? Ciccarelli has absolutely nothing to do with Bondra and Dino being a Hall of Fame member has absolutely nothing to do about people feeling negatively about Bondras possible induction.

Plural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 01:24 AM
  #329
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
A lot of that is role too. None of Caps centers were goalscorers. From watching the Caps all these years in the '90s it was practically always the center's job to pass and the wingers' job to shoot. I was never entirely sure if it was by design but that was always how it seemed to shake out: The centers got the assists and the wingers got the goals. Even Joey Juneau in that cup run of 97-98 got his goals playing as Adam Oates' Leftwing.
Yeah, this is the fact which seems to lost to many fans. Let's take a look at '98 team. Given aside the playoff run which was certainly not the biggest highlightreel of Bondra's career, the team scoring list says it pretty much:
1. Bondra 52 goals
2. Oates 18 goals - we all know what kind of goalscorer Oates was and he was 2nd as an ol'papa
3. Zednik - 17 goals - rookie and kind of a grinder

Bondra was Capitals' gun. This was their system, he was go-to guy: out of d-zone, make a pass, play, give it to Bondra as soon as possible - shot/goal, let's go and try again.

His inability to make a play is highly exagerrated, mostly because his Richard seasons. We can clearly say this system worked its best during 95 and 98.
In other circumstances Bondra was not worse than any similar sniper. This fact is brightly seen when he was not profiled as a go-to guy in Capitals, but reached his potential and developed his skills: 37/48. As years passes he became more and more Capitals' 'lone wolf and in during his last days he was not much more than PP specialist.

I do believe that if he played in different circumstances, let say in Detroit, his numbers are different. He always was a great team guy, but in breakaway position 2 on 1 he is not just the one who shoots, he is the one who other guy hope will shoot. That's Bondra.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 02:09 AM
  #330
MadArcand
Whaletarded
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seat of the Empire
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 5,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I think so too. Not by a significant amount, but Dino actually could pass the puck and he wasn't allergic to contact.
Holy hyperbole.

Bondra wasn't 'allergic to contact' at all, it's just that Dino reveled in it and sought it out. As for passing the puck... actually watching them it was obvious that Bondra was the more skilled, better stickhandler and I dare say actually even passer. That he played the role of the trigger man in the Caps' system doesn't suddenly transform his hands to those of the likes of Ciccarelli.

MadArcand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 02:52 AM
  #331
Plural
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 30,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Holy hyperbole.

Bondra wasn't 'allergic to contact' at all, it's just that Dino reveled in it and sought it out. As for passing the puck... actually watching them it was obvious that Bondra was the more skilled, better stickhandler and I dare say actually even passer. That he played the role of the trigger man in the Caps' system doesn't suddenly transform his hands to those of the likes of Ciccarelli.

So Bondra was better than Ciccarelli?

Plural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 07:25 AM
  #332
MadArcand
Whaletarded
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seat of the Empire
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 5,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
So Bondra was better than Ciccarelli?
When we look at just the players themselves and at their skillset, yes, undoubtedly. But it can easily be argued that Ciccarelli accomplished more in the NHL. OTOH, there's also NT career to consider, where Bondra absolutely crushes Ciccarelli.

MadArcand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 11:59 AM
  #333
Plural
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 30,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
When we look at just the players themselves and at their skillset, yes, undoubtedly. But it can easily be argued that Ciccarelli accomplished more in the NHL. OTOH, there's also NT career to consider, where Bondra absolutely crushes Ciccarelli.
Ok, well I disagree.

Dino was better.

Plural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 01:45 PM
  #334
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Ok, well I disagree.

Dino was better.
I personally would take Bondra over Ciccarelli (though not by much) as my personal preference is for skill over scrappiness.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #335
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
No, not pulling for him to get into the Hall. More just wondering why all the negativity towards him when there's certainly some seriously questionable guys (like Ciccarelli) that seem to get in.
The funny thing is, I remember before 2010 and Dino was constantly a name on this very board that got brought up often for not being in the HHOF. I think since his induction there have been people who have sort of gone the other way with it. As if they were ashamed to even consider him in the first place. The guy was considered by many, many people on these boards to be a borderline HHOFer. I'm just saying it seems like the popular opinion now is that no one ever gave him a second though before 2010. Not true. Now Dick Duff, THAT came out of nowhere. When he was inducted in 2006 I saw the headline: "Roy, Duff get Hall call". I wasn't even thinking about Dick Duff at all. I was trying to picture some sort of media guy or announcer that was being honoured. Now that tells you something that a guy like me who follows the game closely and is a big history buff that Dick Duff wasn't even on my mind even after seeing his last name there.

But back on topic. With Dino he had 608 goals. In any era, that's pretty darn good and he had an extra 73 playoff goals. The guy never stopped scoring at any time in his career. To compare him to Bondra, Dino had more assists (not his strength) than Bondra had goals (his strength). Adjust for era if you'd like but their careers did overlap for about a decade too, so it isn't as if neither one experienced each era. Throw in the fact that there was little else Bondra brought to the table other than goal scoring. Dino brought a sense of fear from the opposition. Maybe people didn't like what he did to Luke Richardson, but there was almost this trigger with Dino where he could be set off in a heartbeat. That gave him a little more room and a little more respect. Plus while I don't have the stats, there has to have been many times when Dino's disturbance in front of the net was a direct cause of a goal that he didn't score. Stats won't explain that, and Dino was a guy who had more to offer than just stats, while Bondra wasn't.

He also got 608 goals the "right" way in my opinion. He didn't stick around very long at all once his numbers dropped. Andreychuk stuck around 7-8 years too long which explains why he is in the 600+ department. Dino retired basically the moment he couldn't score goals anymore. So there isn't any padding of the stats to make them look better either.

Lastly, the Richardson incident and the arrest he had for "indecent exposure" I think are the reasons the HHOF waited to induct him (see Gilmour for the same reasons for the St. Louis allegations, or Anderson for.......you name it). To be fair it was a dirty stick swing on Richardson. But the "indecent exposure" incident was just him basically getting the newspaper in the morning in a less than modest housecoat from what I understand. If that's the case I am surprised my neighbours haven't put me on Youtube yet.

But the bottom line is there doesn't seem to be much of a case on my end to put Bondra ahead of Dino and that's why he has more love.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2013, 03:35 PM
  #336
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
I personally would take Bondra over Ciccarelli (though not by much) as my personal preference is for skill over scrappiness.
All that skill Bondra may have had, Ciccarelli still put up better point totals relative to his peers.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2013, 03:55 AM
  #337
MadArcand
Whaletarded
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seat of the Empire
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 5,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
All that skill Bondra may have had, Ciccarelli still put up better point totals relative to his peers.
But does that actually make him a better player? I don't think so. When you look at the factors that cause the discrepancy:

1. Era - Ciccarelli scored more, but his prime was in the highest scoring era, while Bondra peaked in DPE. In fact, Bondra has better adjusted PPG (though not by all that much, 0.88 to 0.85), and much better GPG (0.51 to 0.43).

2. Team playstyle - Bondra's Caps had very defined roles on the top line during Bondra's prime, heavily contributing to his goalscoring bias. The Caps were also a defensive team during Bondra's 7-year prime:

Year - GF ranking - GA ranking
94-95 - 13/26 - 4/26
95-96 - 20/26 - 3/26
96-97 - 23/26 - 9/26
97-98 - 13/26 - 10/26
98-99 - 20/27 - 15/27
99-00 - 13/28 - 4/28
00-01 - 13/30 - 13/30

To compare, Minnesota during Dino's 7-year prime:
81-82 - 5/21 - 6/21
82-83 - 7/21 - 9/21
83-84 - 5/21 - 16/21
84-85 - 18/21 - 13/21
85-86 - 8/21 - 11/21
86-87 - 8/21 - 16/21
87-88 - 21/21 - 20/21

There's two stinkers for Minny during that stretch, but they were an offensively-geared team overall. The Caps' were very clearly defense-first.

As for the Caps' clearly defined passer/shooter roles during Bondra's prime, let's look at his stats and those of his centers:

94-95 - Bondra 34+9, Pivonka 10+23
95-96 - Bondra 52+28, Pivonka 16+65
96-97 - Bondra 46+31, Hunter 14+32
97-98 - Bondra 52+26, Oates 18+58
98-99 - Bondra 31+24, Oates 12+42
99-00 - Bondra 21+17, Oates 15+56
00-01 - Bondra 45+36, Oates 13+69

Could Bondra not pass? Could Oates/Pivonka not score goals? Or was it actually a matter of deliberate tactics and separation of roles by the team? I think the latter.

3. Dino was actually inferior defensively.

Wait, what? Well, let's just say that Bondra was a PK regular with 36 SHPs, and one of the best SHG scorers of his generation. Dino? He has whopping 1 SHG and 1 SHA in his 1200+ GP career. That's gotta count for something, even if Bondra was obviously on PK as super-fast SH threat.

MadArcand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #338
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,119
vCash: 500
if your point is that the style of play of Bondra's line led to his goal bias, then the logic endpoint of that argument is that if it played differently some of those goals would be assists. But I don't see how it cost him points.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen career SHP used to prove a player was better defensively than another.

That said, I don't think Dino's that far ahead, just that these arguments aren't very good ones.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #339
GRob83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 55
vCash: 500
Compared to Right Wingers

Only 2 Right Wings(as listed on Nhl.com) that scored 500 goals, did so in fewer career games than Bondra.

Mike Bossy and Maurice Richard

Let's not forget that Bondra never came close to being on a team with the overall talent of any of the Islanders of the 80s or the Original 6 era Habs teams.

What he managed to do on terrible offensive Capitals teams was amazing. He also lost 1 and a half seasons due to lockouts.

If he hadn't been stuck with mediocre centers his whole career we may be talking about a 650-700 goal scorer and a shoe in for the Hall. Of all players with 500 goals he has the fewest assists, further proof that noone else on the team could score but Bonzai.

GRob83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 01:58 PM
  #340
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRob83 View Post
Only 2 Right Wings(as listed on Nhl.com) that scored 500 goals, did so in fewer career games than Bondra.

Mike Bossy and Maurice Richard

Let's not forget that Bondra never came close to being on a team with the overall talent of any of the Islanders of the 80s or the Original 6 era Habs teams.

What he managed to do on terrible offensive Capitals teams was amazing. He also lost 1 and a half seasons due to lockouts.

If he hadn't been stuck with mediocre centers his whole career we may be talking about a 650-700 goal scorer and a shoe in for the Hall. Of all players with 500 goals he has the fewest assists, further proof that noone else on the team could score but Bonzai.
So Bondra's incredibly low assist totals are all his teammates' faults?

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 02:02 PM
  #341
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
So Bondra's incredibly low assist totals are all his teammates' faults?
More due to a team that was, how should we say it, "offensively challenged". Bondra was basically the only guy on that team that could put it in the back of the net. Whether it was Ron Wilson's "system" or whether there just weren't any goal scorers on the team the result was the same.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 02:12 PM
  #342
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
More due to a team that was, how should we say it, "offensively challenged". Bondra was basically the only guy on that team that could put it in the back of the net. Whether it was Ron Wilson's "system" or whether there just weren't any goal scorers on the team the result was the same.
Pavel Bure was often the only guy on his team who could put the puck in the back of the net. Didn't stop him from getting significantly more assists (and therefore much higher point totals) than Bondra could ever manage.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 02:23 PM
  #343
vadim sharifijanov
ugh
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pavel Bure was often the only guy on his team who could put the puck in the back of the net. Didn't stop him from getting significantly more assists (and therefore much higher point totals) than Bondra could ever manage.
i didn't think that could be right, so i looked it up. it is.

even in '01, with absolutely nobody on that team, pavel still put up 33 assists. a pathetically low amount, but still easily more than bondra's totals in his two retro rocket years. bondra had 16 (prorated for lockout) and 26 the two years he led the league in goals, and 28 in his other 50 goal year. i knew those totals were low, but never realized they were that low.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #344
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,935
vCash: 500
Here are Bondra's top 20 finishes:

Goals: 1st (1995), 4th (1996), 8th (1997), 1st (1998), 4th (2001), 6th (2002)
Points: 11th (1998), 18th (2001)

Despite his goal totals, Bondra was never top 10 in points and only finished top 20 in points twice.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 02:44 PM
  #345
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pavel Bure was often the only guy on his team who could put the puck in the back of the net. Didn't stop him from getting significantly more assists (and therefore much higher point totals) than Bondra could ever manage.
Assist Totals:

Bure

1991-92 26
1992-93 50
1993-94 47
1994-95 23
1995-96 7
1996-97 32
1997-98 39
1998-99 3
1999-00 36
2000-01 33
2001-02 35
2002-03 11
Career 342


Bondra

1990-91 16
1991-92 28
1992-93 48
1993-94 19
1994-95 9
1995-96 28
1996-97 31
1997-98 26
1998-99 24
1999-00 17
2000-01 36
2001-02 31
2002-03 26
2003-04 23
2005-06 18
2006-07 9
Career 389


The difference between Bure's and Bondra's assists isn't really that great.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 03:25 PM
  #346
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Assist Totals:

Bure

1991-92 26
1992-93 50
1993-94 47
1994-95 23
1995-96 7
1996-97 32
1997-98 39
1998-99 3
1999-00 36
2000-01 33
2001-02 35
2002-03 11
Career 342


Bondra

1990-91 16
1991-92 28
1992-93 48
1993-94 19
1994-95 9
1995-96 28
1996-97 31
1997-98 26
1998-99 24
1999-00 17
2000-01 36
2001-02 31
2002-03 26
2003-04 23
2005-06 18
2006-07 9
Career 389


The difference between Bure's and Bondra's assists isn't really that great.
regardless, Bondra had much lower assist totals in years when he led or came close to leading the league in goals, hence his much lower point production.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 03:28 PM
  #347
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
regardless, Bondra had much lower assist totals in years when he led or came close to leading the league in goals, hence his much lower point production.
Given that assists are handed out at roughly 1.65 per goal using raw point totals tend to favor playmakers over goal scorers. That should be borne in mind.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-20-2013, 05:08 PM
  #348
the edler
Valeri Bure fan
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
The difference between Bure's and Bondra's assists isn't really that great.
Bure led the 93–94 Canucks in assists both in the regular season, despite missing 8 games, and in the playoffs. He led the 97–98 Canucks in assists.
His statline in the playoffs is 64 35+35 70. I'm not saying he was a great playmaker, that wasn't how he played the game, but he had good vision and he was better at it than Bondra.

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2013, 01:31 AM
  #349
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,126
vCash: 500
Better yes, but by how much? I think the whole thing becomes exaggerated mostly by TDMM case against Bondra (basically no assists -> no top 10 scoring -> no all star), while the whole thing is deeper - it's about the whole Capitals system of play, what has been explained many times.
Not to say, if we put numbers in a perspective, it's really not that bad.
In example - 1997:
Bondra 46 goals 1st Konowalchuk 17 goals 2nd
D. Hunter 32 A's 1st Bondra 31 A's 2nd

Peter Bondra and his team scoring - goals/assists (prime years):
1992 5th / 12th
1993 1st / 4th
1994 4th / 10th
1995 1st / 10th
1996 1st / 4th
1997 1st / 2nd
1998 1st / 2nd
1999 1st / 4th
2000 2nd / 9th
2001 1st / 3rd
2002 1st / 4th
2003 2nd / 6th
In total - goals: 1st (8x) 2nd (2x) assists: 2nd (2x) 3rd (1x) 4th (4x)

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2013, 04:33 AM
  #350
the edler
Valeri Bure fan
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Better yes, but by how much?
I don't know by how much, but assist totals isn't the only thing Bure has on Bondra. Bure was an edgier player and would involve himself more in the play, start rushes, quarterback the pp, hustle, even throw hits. Bondra was basically a designated goal scorer. I'm not saying that's the only thing he did, but he didn't have a lot of facets. How Bure dominated the whole series against Dallas in the 94 playoffs for example, Churla hit included, that's something Bondra would never come close to.

Though for 80s HOF guys like Ciccarelli or Gartner, I don't think Bondra is far behind them at all. I would probably even prefer him in front of a guy like Gartner.

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.