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Demitra's Rehab Going Badly

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Old
10-12-2009, 06:24 PM
  #51
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
With Bernier being promoted to the first line Desbiens was brought in as bottom six forward.
A case of filling one hole by creating another.

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Old
10-12-2009, 06:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Dallas is 11 spots ahead of the Canucks and the Habs are tied with Canucks.

It depends upon your viewpoint.
Right but that doesn't change the viewpoint from simply being wrong.

Saying that Glass and Desbiens had anything to do with the the last two wins is ludicrous. The most they contributed was allowing better players to have more ice time.

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10-12-2009, 06:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
A case of filling one hole by creating another.
We have heard that Bernier is supposed to be a Top Six forward from the time of the trade. He is going to get a chance to see if he can fulfil his potential.

Here is his scouting report:
ASSETS: Owns great size and a fair amount of scoring potential. Can play the role of power forward effectively.

FLAWS: Needs more work on his skating in order to emerge as a consistent scoring winger. His physical conditioning is an issue.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Power forward.

He is only 24 - look how long it took Bertuzzi to begin to reach his potential.

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10-12-2009, 06:31 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vector View Post
Right but that doesn't change the viewpoint from simply being wrong.

Saying that Glass and Desbiens had anything to do with the the last two wins is ludicrous. The most they contributed was allowing better players to have more ice time.
And Shirokov not being on the second line allowed Raymond to move up.

As I said it depends upon your viewpoint.

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10-12-2009, 06:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
And Shirokov not being on the second line allowed Raymond to move up.

As I said it depends upon your viewpoint.
That's not a viewpoint at all that's a roster change.

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10-12-2009, 06:36 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Vector View Post
That's not a viewpoint at all that's a roster change.
It all depends upon your viewpoint.

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Old
10-12-2009, 06:40 PM
  #57
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It all depends upon your viewpoint.
I hope you can see this because I'm doing it as hard as I can.

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Old
10-12-2009, 06:40 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
It looks like Demitra may not be back for the foreseeable future as rehab on his injured shoulder is not going well.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...921/story.html
Same as it ever was...

I direct your attention to the winter of '06:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Times
Demitra continues to receive acupuncture treatment for a severe lower thigh bruise that has kept him out of the lineup since mid-December.

"They stuck about 10 needles in me," he said. "But I did feel better afterward. It helped."

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Old
10-12-2009, 06:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
We have heard that Bernier is supposed to be a Top Six forward from the time of the trade. He is going to get a chance to see if he can fulfil his potential.

Here is his scouting report:
ASSETS: Owns great size and a fair amount of scoring potential. Can play the role of power forward effectively.

FLAWS: Needs more work on his skating in order to emerge as a consistent scoring winger. His physical conditioning is an issue.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Power forward.

He is only 24 - look how long it took Bertuzzi to begin to reach his potential.
Agreed.
yet we still expect Offense from our Third Line,
Bernier is a secondary scorer, albeit on the Third line, he is still counted on to pot a couple points.
Desbiens is a career third fourth line energy player, with VERY LIMITED offensive abilities.
When Dan went down. Samuelsson shoulda been bumped up, Bernier to the second, n Grabner called up for SECONDARY SCORING from the third line. Much like Bernier is suppose to provide.
the only draw back is, Glass becomes the defensive guy on that line, which could backfire. But given Wellwoods committment to a new playing style. kinda insures us we can atleast ice the 3 lines that can score we normally should be able too....

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Old
10-12-2009, 06:57 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Agreed.
yet we still expect Offense from our Third Line,
Bernier is a secondary scorer, albeit on the Third line, he is still counted on to pot a couple points.
Desbiens is a career third fourth line energy player, with VERY LIMITED offensive abilities.
When Dan went down. Samuelsson shoulda been bumped up, Bernier to the second, n Grabner called up for SECONDARY SCORING from the third line. Much like Bernier is suppose to provide.
the only draw back is, Glass becomes the defensive guy on that line, which could backfire. But given Wellwoods committment to a new playing style. kinda insures us we can atleast ice the 3 lines that can score we normally should be able too....
I do not see Grabner as any sort of option at this point.

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Old
10-12-2009, 07:12 PM
  #61
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grabner doesn't deserve a call up at all

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Old
10-12-2009, 07:19 PM
  #62
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Does anybody really care that much? In all honesty, I hope he never comes back and we can put that cap room to some real use. I hated that signing from day one. Despite his usefulness on the PP I just think this team is better off without him.

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Old
10-12-2009, 07:21 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
Does anybody really care that much? In all honesty, I hope he never comes back and we can put that cap room to some real use. I hated that signing from day one. Despite his usefulness on the PP I just think this team is better off without him.
How do you propose using his cap space to acquire a player who can score more than 20 goals, 53 assists in 69 games without giving up anything?

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10-12-2009, 07:21 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
Does anybody really care that much? In all honesty, I hope he never comes back and we can put that cap room to some real use. I hated that signing from day one. Despite his usefulness on the PP I just think this team is better off without him.
the Canucks lost Daniel for 4-6 weeks and have a third line of Desbiens - Wellwood - Glass and you don't think someone who put up close to (not incredibly close, but close) a PPG would help?


Last edited by Hedberg: 10-12-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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Old
10-12-2009, 07:23 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
How do you propose using his cap space to acquire a player who can score more than 20 goals, 53 assists in 69 games without giving up anything?
Canucks fans fear offense. But he shoots too mcuh and misses sometimes and hits the goalie in the chest. To score a goal, you have to shoot.

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Old
10-12-2009, 07:44 PM
  #66
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How do you propose using his cap space to acquire a player who can score more than 20 goals, 53 assists in 69 games without giving up anything?
It's not that he can't put up points, I just think that come playoff time he'll disappear as usual and when we reach that point no one will care what he did during the regular season. As I said, I recognize that he's a skilled player but do we really need him for our team to be successful? I personally don't think so. The Canucks seem to be able to generate a lot of chances with him out of the lineup

We would certainly have to give something up to acquire another forward and while he may not put up the points that Demitra can it doesn't mean he wouldn't be a better fit. I don't think we even have to necessarily replace his production especially the way Kesler, Raymond and Burrows have been playing.

It just seems like 4M spent on a guy who is rarely in the lineup, is baby soft and disappears in the playoffs is a waste. I would rather get someone with a little more grit and drive with less production.

This is all moot anyway. Demitra isn't going anywhere until his contract is up at the end of the year and then I pray Gillis lets him walk.


Last edited by Hedberg: 10-12-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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Old
10-12-2009, 07:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
It's not that he can't put up points, I just think that come playoff time he'll disappear as usual and when we reach that point no one will care what he did during the regular season.
Demitra averages 0.63 points a game in the playoff. While that's less than his regular season average, that's not disappearing.

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Old
10-12-2009, 08:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
It's not that he can't put up points, I just think that come playoff time he'll disappear as usual and when we reach that point no one will care what he did during the regular season. As I said, I recognize that he's a skilled player but do we really need him for our team to be successful? I personally don't think so. The Canucks seem to be able to generate a lot of chances with him out of the lineup

We would certainly have to give something up to acquire another forward and while he may not put up the points that Demitra can it doesn't mean he wouldn't be a better fit. I don't think we even have to necessarily replace his production especially the way Kesler, Raymond and Burrows have been playing.

It just seems like 4M spent on a guy who is rarely in the lineup, is baby soft and disappears in the playoffs is a waste. I would rather get someone with a little more grit and drive with less production.

This is all moot anyway. Demitra isn't going anywhere until his contract is up at the end of the year and then I pray Gillis lets him walk.
It doesn't matter that we spent $4mill on someone who isn't in the line-up. We can still replace his salary while he's injured, and he's covered by insurance anyway, is he not? I'd like to see how you would plan replace a nearly ppg player for $4 mill per year...

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10-12-2009, 08:09 PM
  #69
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Demitra averages 0.63 points a game in the playoff. While that's less than his regular season average, that's not disappearing.
I know but it's more than just points, he physically can't handle the playoffs and the first real hit he took knocked him out of the lineup. I'm not arguing that Demitra isn't skilled or that he can't put up points. I'm arguing that we don't necessarily have to replace his points and that his cap hit would be better spent elsewhere. I hate to use the term intangibles as it's pretty subjective but I can think of at least 30 players who have the same or cheaper cap hit that I would rather have but don't put up the same points. What really killed me was seeing Hejduk extend for 3M and Tanguay signing for 2.5M.

Well, if you think about it, Kesler's new deal will most likely eat up a good chunk of that hit next year anyway.

If Gillis signs him next year and proclaims him a great fit with this team, I'll take it all back.

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It doesn't matter that we spent $4mill on someone who isn't in the line-up. We can still replace his salary while he's injured, and he's covered by insurance anyway, is he not? I'd like to see how you would plan replace a nearly ppg player for $4 mill per year...
...and I keep saying we don't need to replace him with a PPG player.

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Old
10-12-2009, 09:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
We have heard that Bernier is supposed to be a Top Six forward from the time of the trade. He is going to get a chance to see if he can fulfil his potential.

Here is his scouting report:
ASSETS: Owns great size and a fair amount of scoring potential. Can play the role of power forward effectively.

FLAWS: Needs more work on his skating in order to emerge as a consistent scoring winger. His physical conditioning is an issue.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Power forward.

He is only 24 - look how long it took Bertuzzi to begin to reach his potential.
That scouting report is old. And not relevant.

I don't know why people keep talking about he's only 24, hasn't reached his potential yet, compared to Bertuzzi, etc... Bertuzzi had way more talent than Bernier will ever have. Bernier is not an elite player and never will be - he can be a complementary top 6 perhaps, but he certainly won't be creating the offense as he simply doesn't have the puck handling skill or vision. He also doesn't have the shot to be a sniper. If he scores 30 its because somebody put in on the tape of his stick 15' from the red line.

He does have some excellent qualities: a hard worker; a team player; very good in the corners; excellent fore-checker; an improved and acceptable skater; very improved defensively; and one of the best clean hitters in the league that I've seen. That role - whether its on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th role, is invaluable and if you have a few talented players plus a bunch of Berniers, you can win it all. Setting expectations beyond that only causes disappointment for the fans, the GM and even Bernier himself.

PS - he also lacks a mean streak. But, he also draws a lot more penalties than he takes.


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Old
10-12-2009, 09:48 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Desbiens is a career third fourth line energy player, with VERY LIMITED offensive abilities.
Points last season (AHL)...

Desbiens: 47
Grabner: 48

Granted Desbiens did play a handful more games, but the point stands. Grabner's offensive skills have been severely overrated, and Desbiens seems to be on the path to being underrated.

I'm not saying that he's going to be a top six player, but he does have some offensive talent, and he wouldn't be the first player to crack the NHL with the Canucks as a crash-and-bang player with a little offensive upside. I just don't see Grabner fitting that prototype.

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10-12-2009, 09:56 PM
  #72
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Grabner plays like drunk toddler.

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Old
10-12-2009, 10:14 PM
  #73
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Points last season (AHL)...

Desbiens: 47
Grabner: 48

Granted Desbiens did play a handful more games, but the point stands. Grabner's offensive skills have been severely overrated, and Desbiens seems to be on the path to being underrated.

I'm not saying that he's going to be a top six player, but he does have some offensive talent, and he wouldn't be the first player to crack the NHL with the Canucks as a crash-and-bang player with a little offensive upside. I just don't see Grabner fitting that prototype.
i'm not the biggest grabner fan but it's worth noting that desbiens is 24 while grabner just turned 21. big difference. when desbiens was 20/21 (05/06 season) he had 9 points in 54 AHL games.

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Old
10-12-2009, 11:49 PM
  #74
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That scouting report is old. And not relevant.

I don't know why people keep talking about he's only 24, hasn't reached his potential yet, compared to Bertuzzi, etc... Bertuzzi had way more talent than Bernier will ever have. Bernier is not an elite player and never will be - he can be a complementary top 6 perhaps, but he certainly won't be creating the offense as he simply doesn't have the puck handling skill or vision. He also doesn't have the shot to be a sniper. If he scores 30 its because somebody put in on the tape of his stick 15' from the red line.
At 24 many people were saying the same thing about Bertuzzi not having elite talent.

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10-13-2009, 12:01 AM
  #75
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At 24 many people were saying the same thing about Bertuzzi not having elite talent.
Pyatt too.

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